Bogus debt but records gone and OC dissolved

[Lecasbas]

I have a JDB taking me to court on 2 paid debts. One I do have records for and have presented them to the court. The other, account statements and all, were burned in an unplanned building fire.

To compound matters, the OC is not in the credit card business anymore. Even before that, there were so many mergers and buyouts that, even though my card still worked, I wasn't sure who the provider was.

Some of you will remember me from another thread :"Can you demand validation after 30 days?". I weighed and measured every input and treated them with the respect they deserved. With this valued help I have been convinced that I need to go another direction.

Well, it seems DV is out of the question. Fields v Wilber isn't much help for attaining all of original records.

Any suggestions for avoiding a nolo contendere defense?

[gypsie]

Did you pay them with check/debit or MO?

If you paid with a check or debit, you should be able to access your old records at the bank. They can get you carbon copies of the front and back of old checks and bank statements. If you can give them an idea of the timeline to search thru, most will make an appointment for you to come in and look thru the old records.

[Lecasbas]

I have no documents. I received the credit card from out of state. There is no building to go to.

I am not sure how I paid. I think it was with a balance transfer from another lender which has also been dissolved or merger with another company.

You know, I feel like I am making this story up. I think that everyone reading understands the temporay status of most credit cards. A lot of the time a person doesn't know who he is paying.

I can prove that the same JDB is hounding me for another debt which is also paid. Since their credibility is weakened, can I somehow request that the Court, or some other third party, order the account be validated? Keep in mind that the original 30 days has passed.

[gypsie]

I didn't mention the building or any place that you received your CC.

I said the "bank"

You say the debt the JDB is trying to collect on has been paid- I assume by you. If you did pay them- then how did you do it??

If you sent them a check or used your debit card- then YOUR BANK should have the cancelled checks and bank statements to show the debt was paid.

[gypsie]

thank you for editing your post to respond to what I was asking.

You say- you're not sure how you paid..... Well, start thinking.

I know the old saying "if i'd known then what I know now..." applies, You should have kept records.... but you didn't. So, now you've got to gather what ever info you can find and go to court.

With SO many obstacles in your way and reading your other thread yesterday, I think you need the help of an attorney.

[Lecasbas]

Yes I could get duplicate checks from my bank for payments but not for a payoff.

I don't understand how individual payment checks, even to the new lender, would show I completely paid the OC. Without a account statement verifying a zero balance how can I prove the balance was zero'ed out?

[Lecasbas]

Have you ever had an unplanned fire. You can't holler into the flames and say " Hey, save those records, I might need them later".

I am not being flippant. It just seems that in your appreciated efforts to help that you missed that point.

I can neither afford to hire a lawyer nor pay the already-paid debt.

And, of course, there's the principal that the JDB is unscrupulously trying to dig into my pockets. Guys like these need to be delt with so they won't prey upon other hapless victims.

Do you have another avenue I can travel?

[gypsie]

Have you ever had an unplanned fire. You can't holler into the flames and say " Hey, save those records, I might need them later".

I am not being flippant. It just seems that in your appreciated efforst to help that you missed that point.

Do you have another avenue I can travel?

What does asking me if I've ever had an unplanned fire have to do with anything??

Seems to me you've been missing the point

Next!.....

[SecretAgentWoman]

Gypsy is trying to say you can put together SOME kind of records by pursing every possible avenue of payment you made and going to that institution(s) involved to gather their records.

Why you are getting offended is beyond me.

You don't seem to want to try to hard, you want an easy answer. There is no easy answer. Court is a battle, the one with the best evidence wins. You need to either gather the most convincing evidence you can, or perhaps enough to poke holes in their side of the story. Good luck.

[gypsie]

THank you SAW, that was precisely my point.

Lecasbas, this forum is free advice from people who've been in similar situations.

I've been following your threads. You've had VERY sound advice from experts yet you continued to argue. Seems to me that once you've got your mind made up then that's it. So, why bother asking for anyone's advice???

So, here's my 2 cents. Stop asking for advice that you can argue with and get an attorney that will tell you when to shut up and listen.

Your case is NOT hopeless, yet you make every effort out to be.

Good luck

[Lecasbas]

I don't understand why my thread has been closed and by who? Someone might have an answer for me.

[Lecasbas]

I understand that I can bring all the checks that I wrote to the OC or the new lender. I had the account for several years and gave them several checks.

I think the Court would look at them and then tell me "Well I can see you gave several checks to the OC over the last 10 years but I don't see where the account was completely paid off".

I have been trying hard. I have given up quality time with my wife and kids to pursue this injustice.

I consider my time as valuable as the next person. It would, quite frankly, be easier and economically smarter to pay the already paid debt. But I cannot come up with the money.

If I don't stop this court action I will be stuck with a judgement for the next 20 years.

[MadinKS]

I would follow the prior advice. If you can gather the payments and prove that there was an "unplanned fire", maybe the judge will see through the CA's BS. It's up to the CA to prove you DIDN'T pay already. Just don't roll over and let them win. Take the fight to them and it just may be worth your valuable time. Most of the scumbag CA's get judgments because the debtor doesn't fight or even respond. DV them now and it may give you more leverage if it comes to court. "Your honor, I paid this years ago and when I asked the MFer's Collection Agency for validation they ignored me. I would also suggest seeking out the advice of a lawyer. A lot of them give free consultation and some will even take your case on contingency or payment plan. It might even be cheaper than the judgment. A lot of states also provide free legal services for people that may not be able to afford it. Another resource would be the NACA lawyers at http://naca.net/ Good luck bud. Don't take the CA's BS. Take action.

[divemedic]

Your previous thread asked about whether or not you can use Fields v Wilber to force a CA to give you account statements when you DV. The answer to that question was and is no.

This question is entirely different. What you are asking in this thread is whether or not a Plaintiff (JDB) needs to prove that you owe money. Try this:

How can the JDB prove you owe money? They need to produce records that show you owe a given balance, or they need to produce an affidavit from an employee of the creditor (not the JDB) that swear to the accuracy and balance of the account.