Help I found your forum to late

[daveyblue]

This is new for me, I recieved a letter from a law firm(daniels and norelli),

I ignored for several weeks, but I did finally call and Mr Lopo stated oh you called just in time. We were mailing this out today to putnam county courts!!

P.S. I dont live in putnam county.. Well he really frightened me, so i agreed to make a 20% payment of 1500.03 to be followed by 5 payments of 558.00

After further thought I decided I shouldn't have entered into this without some written promise on their part that ie. the debt would be payed in full and that they would show it as payed. I called his office and left a voice mail telling him that I couldnt make the 1500.03 payment without documentation.

(which is really more than I can afford, Did I mention he scared me good)

He returned my call via my voice mail and said your message was very garbled but something about a check not be honored, and if that is the message then be ready for more legal action for a NSF or stop payment and legal prosecution, and he would really corner me. Yikes Iam so scared of this guy icant work up the nerve to return his call. The check is supposed to process tomorrow so not alot of time here.

Can he prosecute if I stop payment. are there any other actions I can take.

THanks so much for your help.

[CarolinaBlueEyes]

okay FIRST of all breath .. NO he can not prosucute you for this..

YOU tell him VIA CERTIFIED MAIL (STAY OFF THE PHONE!) that upon further invesitagation you do not believe you owe this debt and ask them for a debt validation.

I am hoping you did NOT give them any banking information you never ever ever do that.. if you did.. go about changing your bank account , I know its a pain in the butt but you do not want them to have access.

Also IF they do sue which is possible. its fine.. do not be afraid of the courts. .this can work to your advantage.. there is a sticky somewhere on here.. fill that out.. tell us the info we need on this debt including if it is with the SOL.

and DO NOT TALK TO THEM BY PHONE AGAIN NOT EVER..he lied about the court thing.. they do that to scare you... they are not in control.. they have to prove their case first..

It is their JOB To scare you and most of the time they lie about what they can and cant do which is why everything must be via mail.. did you give them any banking info at all.. this is VITAL

[daveyblue]

unfortunately I did give them banking info. I could stop payment. but this is what their office said would be the worst. The payment is slated to be debited on the 24 of April. He said to make sure funds were there for 3 or 4 days because they do not do it electronically, I really dont have these kinds of funds available.

I cant close this account as they hold mortgage and 2 car loans a credit card ect... Have been with them for 12++ years .

I recieved their letter dated the 9th of March around the 14th of March so my 30 days have expired.

And yes I am hyperventilating lol

[kevin3344]

Follow Carolina's advice. Put a stop on the check and send them a DV. Next time don't agree to anything unless it's in writing.

Of course, never talk to a CA (or lawyer acting as CA) on the phone.

[kevin3344]

but this is what their office said would be the worst.

What are they going to do that's 'worst'? They can't put you in jail! If you don't have the money, you don't have it, and frankly I would never pay a CA $1,500 without something in writing. I would close the account, whatever I needed to do, to stop them from getting the money. How you go about that is up to you.

[CarolinaBlueEyes]

Kevin is RIGHT forget what they say.. and dont be suprised if they go get in that bank account anyway.. you gave them banking info which frankly I never understood why you would (not you but anyone ) would give that info out to a stranger.

there job it is to SCARE and intimidate.. this is why you stay off the phone.. get into play RIGHT now on moving this account.. you can try to stop payment but do NOT be shocked if you get hit with another one without expecting it..

YOU have rights.. GO CHANGE THE BANKING. it only takes a day or two to move over a payment.. etc.. but you could end up losing money and when you least expect it... also request a DV in writing and start from there.. DO NOT TALK TO THEM BY PHONE NOT EVER.. they can't do anything until they try to go to court.. you are letting them do what they do best.. scare you...

also stopping the payment means NOTHING.. now they have your account number.. they can go in later when you least expect it .. CHANGE THAT BANK ACCOUNT TODAY. forget what the bank tells you.... the ONLY way at this point to keep them out of the account is to close it.. so contact whoever you have too.. tell them the account has been compromised.. you dont have to give details.. yes its a pain but better that then what can happen when you least expect it.

My favorite part of this post is "Their office says that is the worst"

what the heck does that mean.. they take away your birthday.. this means NOTHING except they dont get paid... threats is what they do best.. did I mention STAY OFF THE FREAKING PHONE..

you dont have to change banks but you do have to change accounts TODAY!!! and the bank can help you with some of the automatic debits

[bigjohnstud4200]

I would probably have my bank account number changed if I were you. If you gave them your info, then they will continue to try and take money and might even take more than authorized. They have to PROVE that you owe them a debt and they are the assigned party.

[daveyblue]

Do you think that after stop payment they could file a police report,

for non payment. I really cannot afford having any type of criminal activity or record in my line of work..

Should I include in the DV a CD

Thanks ever so much for your help.

[merkurfan]

Don't "stop payment" Close the account. Just close the damn thing or they WILL WIPE YOU OUT! They will take every last penny you have until they think they have got enough from you.

Just do as stated above. do it NOW. Do NOT delay. I personally would be banking at a different bank after giving them the info.

I know the CA scared the pants off you. But trust me, they won't show up at your door, they won't send the police. Worse they might do is sue you if the amount is worth their time. I've told them many times to FOAD, pound sand, send the summons (none have yet..) come on over, I'm "ready" for them. And yet, they just keep calling and sending settlement letters.

[CarolinaBlueEyes]

I know this is stressful and i mean no offense but PLEASE stop ruling with fear and emotion.. they can NOT arrest you... they can't DO anything other then file a suit and then you can fight them that way..

CLOSE THE ACCOUNT.. they will try to get more when you least expect it.. NOTHING CAN HAPPEN TO YOU. I can see these guys are doing the job well.. this is why PHONE is never a good form of communication

YOU have nothing in writing.. therefore it did not happen.. there is no debtors prison they cant arrest you.. stop talking to these people. close the account ASAP and then get set on Dving them to make them prove the case... you are playing right into them.. you are not working on rational logic but fear.. CA's and JDB's LIVE for people who react like this... so DON"T

and NONE of this is criminal.. at the very worst it will be a civil summons if they sue..which honestly puts you in better stead then you are now.. you really need to change bank account and I agree I would bank someplace else if your smart.. I know you are with the bank 12 years but there are plenty of others out there

[daveyblue]

I am so thankful to all for the great advice.

Would it not be illegal for them to try and withdraw funds if I stop payment.

Dont I have to agree to let them make withdrawl whether they be by check or ACH

[sharizap]

I am so thankful to all for the great advice.

Would it not be illegal for them to try and withdraw funds if I stop payment.

Dont I have to agree to let them make withdrawl whether they be by check or ACH

I agree with what everyone else says here, especially the part about DON'T STOP PAYMENT. I'm not 100% sure exactly how laws read on this, but I think your liability is much higher if you stop payment on something you agreed to rather than just having an NSF. I'd suggest just opening up another account and transferring all, or most, of your money into the new account, and not closing the existing one. That way you're not stopping the payment (or risking any legal ramifications from that action) and you're not writing checks (or making debit card payments) on a closed account- which I would assume also carries some legal risk. Let the payment bounce- all it would be is an NSF, probably not any more than the stop payment fee would be. I'd leave $5 or 10 in the account, transfer everything else to a new account NOW (as in, like, YESTERDAY) and then do as everyone has suggested- follow up with a DV, etc.

[sharizap]

As I'm thinking about this- maybe leave enough to cover your NSF fee. If it's less than the payment they're trying to extract, the $30 or so you leave in there will go to the bank to cover the nsf, NOT to the CA.

[daveyblue]

THANKS to all for the great advice. Time is not on my side as this draft is scheduled for tommorrow. Getting to the bank diring operating hours will be a B****. Got to work to make the dough. Stop payment takes one phone call oh well Im screwed again. Seem to be doin alot of that to myself

[CarolinaBlueEyes]

again with all due respect... MAKE THE TIME.. you call the bank in the AM.. you tell them you want to close the account and set up a new one.. but first and foremost you do NOT let this payment go through... it maybe too late for it but it may not.. you call first thing in the AM...

tell them your account info was lost and you are erring on the safe side.. you do not have to go into details.. its your account... then you wait.. and never give out banking info again.. if you ever DO have to pay a CA or JDB you do it with another account at another bank and only keep those funds in there

[sharizap]

THANKS to all for the great advice. Time is not on my side as this draft is scheduled for tommorrow. Getting to the bank diring operating hours will be a B****. Got to work to make the dough. Stop payment takes one phone call oh well Im screwed again. Seem to be doin alot of that to myself

Worst case scenario, the payment goes through and you take the hit on that one- STILL GET A NEW ACCOUNT. If you really can't bring yourself to bounce the payment or stop payment on it, still open up a new one so they can't keep taking your hard earned money from here on.

[CarolinaBlueEyes]

He does not have this agreement in writing.. so he stops payment and closes the account.. there is no signature or agreement they have no recourse, other then the original lawsuit.. NOT making a payment is not illegal.. if he has no paperwork... if it ever did become an issue if they decide to sue for the debt all he has to do is tell them he was waiting on paperwork.. RULE #1 and this comes from years in working for accounting and legal firms.. IF ITS NOT IN WRITING IT DIDNT HAPPEN

[sharizap]

He does not have this agreement in writing.. so he stops payment and closes the account.. there is no signature or agreement they have no recourse, other then the original lawsuit.. NOT making a payment is not illegal.. if he has no paperwork... if it ever did become an issue if they decide to sue for the debt all he has to do is tell them he was waiting on paperwork.. RULE #1 and this comes from years in working for accounting and legal firms.. IF ITS NOT IN WRITING IT DIDNT HAPPEN

Wow- that makes perfect sense. I was thinking that making a payment (with or without paperwork) on a closed account might be a problem- wouldn't he be possibly getting into problems for that? I guess you *could* just say, as you wrote earlier, that the account was compromised and leave it at that.

I have to keep reminding myself of the "no paper" rule- I have a feeling that will be helpful down the road...

[CarolinaBlueEyes]

you guys keep saying "get in trouble" how is that even possible.. its a JDB lawyer.. a junk debt buyer who has not even proven he has the right paperwork.. just because someone says it does NOT make it true.. especially a CA or JDB...

the worst that can happen is he gets a summons.. big deal.. that was going to come anyway.. so he goes to court.. asks for them to prove the debt is their and the chain of ownership.. etc... this "promised payment" will never surface because JUDGES dont care.. they are there to determine if he has a case or a judgement is warrented..

this kind of thinking is what the JDB and CA LIVE for.. fear , intimidation.. etc and people that will throw hard earned money and banking info to make it go away... they DO NOT have the upper hand.. this is your money.. fight for it

at least with a summons he gets a day in court if it goes that far.. and they may just drop it..

but throwing money at it is wrong and promising a payment AGAIN MEANS NOTHING WITHOUT SIGNATURES.... most states a promise to pay has to be in writing to be valid... IT IFS NOT WRITTEN DOWN... IT DIDNT HAPPEN.. thats something everyone needs to remember

I phone conversation with someone making min wage in a cubicle and trying to bank on commissions.. means again NOTHING... a conversation is not binding.

[CarolinaBlueEyes]

Wow- that makes perfect sense. I was thinking that making a payment (with or without paperwork) on a closed account might be a problem- wouldn't he be possibly getting into problems for that? I guess you *could* just say, as you wrote earlier, that the account was compromised and leave it at that.

I have to keep reminding myself of the "no paper" rule- I have a feeling that will be helpful down the road...

OH and you making a payment on a closed account. investigate that because doing that you can restart your SOL AND it can actually hurt your credit in the long run once the account is closed

[sharizap]

you guys keep saying "get in trouble" how is that even possible

I wasn't challenging your knowledge of this. I keep thinking about making payments with a debit card, like in a store or over the internet- but I guess the difference there is that you actually receive goods for your payment, and if you cancel the payment then the seller has some recourse. I can see how this would be different- he was pretty much coerced into giving up his account info and would have every reason to cancel the payment. No goods or services were exchanged- and those were the only instances I could think of where cancelling a payment would be a problem.

Interesting stuff- sorry if it seemed like I was questioning your advice. I really wasn't. For what it's worth, ALL of the various things that folks face on hereare incredible opportunities to learn something new. Thanks!

[sharizap]

I didn't suggest making the payment on a closed account- I suggested leaving the account open and moving most of the funds to a new account. Wouldn't cancelling the payment have the same effect on the SOL, if they recorded it as a payment or activity on the account?

[sharizap]

OH and you making a payment on a closed account. investigate that because doing that you can restart your SOL AND it can actually hurt your credit in the long run once the account is closed

Also, and this just occurred to me, what if the conversation (between daveyblue and the CA) was recorded? He didn't say if it was or not, but just out of curiosity, how would that impact the situation? Couldn't they use that as authorization or agreement to pay?

[CarolinaBlueEyes]

not in most states.. you have to have an agreement in writing , a conversation is pointless and you can bet they didnt record it.. and even if they did so what.. NOW if they post that payment and he doesnt get that account changed.. he can kiss any SOL defense goodbye.. he just restarted it for another four or five years... depending on the type of debt it was in florida...

also there is NO proof he OWES this money... this is a second had junk debt buyer.. goods and service NOT the same thing at all...

think about it this way.. you borrow 1000.00 from your friend Tim... Tim keeps trying to collect the debt but gives up.. give that paper over to AL.. now AL wants to collect the debt.. okay so where do you get off owing AL anything?? He didnt put out the initial investment.. that is how these companies work.. they buy old papers for pennies on the dollar.. so make them PROVE they have the proper chain of ownership.. you would be amazed at the shoddy records many of them keep.

JDB and CA LIVE to intimidate.. its their life blood and frankly their livlihood.. so when they get someone like Davey on the phone its a party pay day in their world because they scared him.. so stay off the phone.. use logic.. CLOSE that account because if that payment hits tomorrow... you not only lost that money but you have just restarted your SOL in MOST states.. not sure how florida runs with that... I know in texas a partial payment does not.. but I believe in FLA it does.

As far as them recording it as payment made.. again SO what.. doesnt count until funds are there...

I had ONE JDB tell me I had defaulted on a payment arrangement with them.. however IT never happened because I never made any arrangement with them.. they kept calling and reporting to the big three.. I finally had to get ahold of the AG in their state (IT was NCO) and LO and behold out came the apologies and the deletion from my CR.. they will do whatever they think they can get away with...

the most important thing he needs to do first thing in the AM is shut down that account and just tell the bank its been compromised. period.... leaving it open could still mean they roll in and take some money anyway and thus restarting his SOL and showing a payment.. you can try to stop payment but on a ACH (electronic payment) that is easier said then done.. and there is nothing to stop them from going in when he is NOT expecting it..they are not stupid... two of the worst things you can ever do is talk on the phone with them and hand them over banking info.

OH and Davey.. you made the comment about it being illegal for them to go in if you didnt give permission.. YOU did give permission.. and even if its after the fact and its not "legal" it happens all the time and it can take months and more $$ then it's worth to fix.. CLOSE THAT ACCOUNT... FIRST THING IN THE AM.. I can't stress it enough...because if the funds are not there.. the account is open, they will try several times to get that money.. EACH time you maybe hit with an NSF fee.. then they can keep hitting for a lesser amount.. again if it bounces another fee... just CLOSE IT

[badlybent]

well ? did Davyblue close the bank account?