UCB violates FDCPA as a rule

[AISLE4]

The jokers at United Collection Bureau, working on Citi's behalf, are trained to violate the FDCPA.

Late last week I get a call from Laurie (a beautiful southern accent). She is clearly reading from a script. I let her finish. I say thanks for the info and goodbye. She tells me as I am about to hang up that this account is pre-legal right now, and if there is not a payment arrangement made by 9PM that night the account will be bumped to the legal department, and I will be getting a summons. I asked if she was telling me that UCB would sue me if I didn't set up a payment arrangement by sundown. She said yes. I told her that this was going to be an interesting day in court since UCB is not a party to any contract I might have with Citi and therefore has no cause to sue me. I tried not to be too mean to Laurie. I liked her accent. I told her that she might want to familiarize herself with the FDCPA if she plans to have a career in collections. Telling me that UCB is going to sue me if I don't pay is a clear violation.

Early this week I get another call from UCB. A guy this time. He is looking at the same script but is giving it some personality in the delivery. He adds some of his own lines. "If you were really a man you would pay this debt." That kind of thing. Much more seasoned than Laurie. He gave me the same deadline. Need to have a payment plan by 9PM or the dreaded legal department is going to start the paperwork for a lawsuit. I ask him if he is specifically telling me that I am going to be sued if I don't set up a payment arrangement by 9PM. "Yes" was his answer. I brought up the FDCPA with him. He didn't let me finish my sentence. I didn't even get to the "A". FDCP"click". He hung up.

I'll be generous with UCB. I'll wait for one more violation before suing. Did I mention that I recorded the conversations. UCB seems to be aching to give me money.

[Southerngirl]

I too have been dealing with UCB this week. I had never heard from them until this week and they have been very busy. I have been screening out the calls because I don't feel comfortable talking with them, but they have called my work numerious of times since Monday and they have called my elderly mother and mother-in-law. I hate that!!! They have left numerous "URGENT"

messages on my cell and home number with the message you better call us back or you will be sorry.

I would love for this to stop, especially calling third parties, but I'm worried about sending a DV to a CA collecting for Citi. I have seen controversial posts on wether its O.K. or not. I am saving to settle on this account and would like to buy time until June to pay this account. I really don't want to do anything to expedite a law suit, but I'm tired of them calling everyone that knows me.

Any suggestions?

[astiman]

Southern Girl, does Cit still own the debt?

And OP, why dont you sue them NOW if you have these messages recorded?

[AISLE4]

Did they mention to your mother and mother-in-law why they were looking for you? If they mention that they are trying to collect a debt, they violate the third party disclosure rule. You really can't stop them from calling others to shame you into opening your purse. The only real thing to do is refuse to be shamed.

I didn't send a DV to them for the same reason you didn't. But as long as Citi owns the account, UCB is just a gadfly. They are powerless to do anything except annoy you.

They will violate the law. You can count on that. I have been doing some research on them. They might be losing Citi as a client, which would kill their bottom line. They are desperate to show results. They will do anything to collect even if it means ignoring the FDCPA.

---I'm not suing yet because they will continue to violate. I want a mountain of evidence that can't be explained away.

[Southerngirl]

Citi still owns I believe. I haven't received anything in writing, but the messages state collecting on behalf of Citi. They did inform my family that they were a collection agency and because I refuse to return their phone calls they are in search of another number where they can reach me. So, I guess they didn't spell it out, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what they are calling about.

I know they can't do alot , but these phone calls are wearing on me. I went home for lunch and was greeted by my neighbor with a message. Guess who it was from. UGH!!!

I'm not sure if there is anything I can do, but can they call the same family member more that once?

[MadinKS]

I'm not sure if there is anything I can do, but can they call the same family member more that once?

No they aren't allowed to continually call them if they have told them how to contact you. If they haven't spoken to the CA then they can keep calling until they speak to someone.

I know they can't do alot , but these phone calls are wearing on me. I went home for lunch and was greeted by my neighbor with a message. Guess who it was from. UGH!!!

Have you sent a DV letter w/the statement that you will only communicate in writing? If not, you need to do that immediately. They have to abide by your wish to cease communication all together if that's what you want. Also, I believe since they don't own the debt, all they can do is kick the account back to Citi and they will have to get another CA to collect or sue you. If it were me, I would just write them a DV w/no further contact except by mail. That should get them to stop calling your family and neighbors. If not, get a lawyer and sue the dog piss out of 'em. Good luck.

Here is what the FDCPA states:

§ 804. Acquisition of location information [15 USC 1692b]

Any debt collector communicating with any person other than the consumer for the purpose of acquiring location information about the consumer shall --

(1) identify himself, state that he is confirming or correcting location information concerning the consumer, and, only if expressly requested, identify his employer;

(2) not state that such consumer owes any debt;

(3) not communicate with any such person more than once unless requested to do so by such person or unless the debt collector reasonably believes that the earlier response of such person is erroneous or incomplete and that such person now has correct or complete location information;

(4) not communicate by post card;

(5) not use any language or symbol on any envelope or in the contents of any communication effected by the mails or telegram that indicates that the debt collector is in the debt collection business or that the communication relates to the collection of a debt; and

(6) after the debt collector knows the consumer is represented by an attorney with regard to the subject debt and has knowledge of, or can readily ascertain, such attorney's name and address, not communicate with any person other than that attorney, unless the attorney fails to respond within a reasonable period of time to the communication from the debt collector.

§ 805. Communication in connection with debt collection [15 USC 1692c]

(a) COMMUNICATION WITH THE CONSUMER GENERALLY. Without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, a debt collector may not communicate with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt --

(1) at any unusual time or place or a time or place known or which should be known to be inconvenient to the consumer. In the absence of knowledge of circumstances to the contrary, a debt collector shall assume that the convenient time for communicating with a consumer is after 8 o'clock antimeridian and before 9 o'clock postmeridian, local time at the consumer's location;

(2) if the debt collector knows the consumer is represented by an attorney with respect to such debt and has knowledge of, or can readily ascertain, such attorney's name and address, unless the attorney fails to respond within a reasonable period of time to a communication from the debt collector or unless the attorney consents to direct communication with the consumer; or

(3) at the consumer's place of employment if the debt collector knows or has reason to know that the consumer's employer prohibits the consumer from receiving such communication.

© CEASING COMMUNICATION. If a consumer notifies a debt collector in writing that the consumer refuses to pay a debt or that the consumer wishes the debt collector to cease further communication with the consumer, the debt collector shall not communicate further with the consumer with respect to such debt, except --

(1) to advise the consumer that the debt collector's further efforts are being terminated;

(2) to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor may invoke specified remedies which are ordinarily invoked by such debt collector or creditor; or

(3) where applicable, to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor intends to invoke a specified remedy.

If such notice from the consumer is made by mail, notification shall be complete upon receipt.

(d) For the purpose of this section, the term "consumer" includes the consumer's spouse, parent (if the consumer is a minor), guardian, executor, or administrator.

[AISLE4]

They can call third parties to find you if they don't have your contact info. But they have called you, so they have your contact info. They are trying to shame you into paying. No, they can't call the same person more than once UNLESS they suspect the person might have new info since the last call. Rules regarding third party contact are a bit vague. If the third party tells them that you don't live there and to not call again, they are supposed to stop. I wouldn't count on UCB stopping.

A way to stop third party contact is to talk to them when they call. Pick up the phone. Be prepared to be insulted and threatened with a lawsuit. Let them think they are scaring you. Don't admit to anything. Play dumb. Think of it as an acting exercise. Tell them you are trying to come up with some money. Making them feel that they are on the right track to getting your money will likely stop the third party calls. Call them once a day to check on the account if you want. That'll stop the third party calls. It's an 800 hundred number. It costs you nothing to call them. Call three times a day to confirm that the account is still with them. Be a nut. Three calls a day will make them stop third party calls.

You don't have a bank account. That is important if you talk with them. If they think you have a bank account they will be obsessed with getting a check by phone.

[MadinKS]

But they have called you, so they have your contact info.

If she doesn't speak to them, they don't have knowledge of her whereabouts. Simply pick up their phone call, let them get their script out, and tell them to put it in writing then hang up. If they have positive contact w/you, by mail or phone, and they continue to call neighbors and relatives, you sue them. Plain and simple.

Don't take this wrong Aisle, but if she calls these people and she commits violations, by accident, or gets coerced into a committment, then she has no leg to stand on if it comes to lawsuit. I would never call a CA. Maybe pick up their calls and tell them nothing but put it in writing and hang up, but that's it. Never call a CA though.

[AISLE4]

I know the overwhelming advice is to not call CAs. If you do call them, yes, it is very important that you don't compromise yourself. My point is that if she calls every day with the plan to simply make sure the account is still with them and then hangs up, they will stop third party calls.

I enjoy talking with CAs. I like to hear how artful they are about flirting with FDCPA violations without quite crossing the line. It doesn't take much to get them to outright violate. And UCB will violate without any encouragement.

Instead of fearing them, get pissed and start collecting violations. You're already off to a good start. Owing money to Citi is one thing, but when Citi hires an agency that breaks the law as blatantly as UCB, skewer them.

[MadinKS]

Understood. As long as she commits to nothing and just hangs up. That was the point I was trying to get across. Thanks.

[Southerngirl]

Thanks for the advice. I see what you mean by me communicating with them in some way, then they will have no reason to call third parties.

I will get up the courage to do so. Also, I haven't DV because it's Citi. I still don't feel comfortable DV a CA collecting for Citi. Its still within sol and I'm sure the records are available. I just need to buy some time until I get some cash the first of June to settle this debt.

Thanks all for the responses hopefully they slow down a bit.

[Southerngirl]

By the way have any of you dealt with ARS National. They too operate in the same manner. They called my Mother today, another Citi account. June is not coming soon enough. I am getting bombarded this week.

[MadinKS]

If the CA is just collecting for Citi, they can't take you to court. They can only kick the account back to the OC. The CA can only take you to court if they own the debt. So, if you DV the CAs, they will more than likely kick the debt back to Citi. Citi won't get the account back until May or June anyway. Then they may be more interested in settling w/you instead of sending it out to another CA. Just a thought. First you need to find out if the CA owns the debt though.

[Southerngirl]

oooohhh... I didn't think about that. I know the Ca is collecting for Citi because they stated that in one of the many messages they have left EVERYWHERE! So, if I DV I knew the CA can't sue, but my fear was that Citi would sue. I had read some posts that shortly after DVing a CA for Citi they were visited by a sherriff with a summons. Some posts made it sound like within days, but if it would take a month or so for my account to get back to Citi I might be O.K. because I will have the money I need in June to settle.

thanks for the imput.. I would love some peace and quiet for a while...

[andknapp]

I have been dealing with UCB and ARS both this week. UCB refuses to accept a pfd, so I sent them a c&d. ARS on the other hand, I DV'd them, they didn't properly validate and are still trying to collect. I sent them another letter saying to vaidate or i'll see you in court. They sent me the SAME exact "validation" back to me. I filed suit. What they sent me doesn't come anywhere near validation. There wasn't even a total on it. They said my account was at 1998, but what I added up on the printout they gave me was 496. They're idiots. Dv them and see what happens.

[Southerngirl]

By any chance were UCB and ARS collecting for Citi? They both are guilty parties to calling elderly family members and harassing them until their scared to dealth.

Also, how long have you been dealing with them?

[andknapp]

No, not citi. ARS got my Midland account which was from Emerge Mastercard, which I think use to be my First National card, I really have no clue. UCB is returned checks from Meijers. UCB is threatening to sue me now for a little under 400, just accept the stupid pfd people, seriously, it makes no sense to me. ARS is threatening to sue to, but Midland had to delete off my report since it couldn't validate and neither can they. When the lady told me her company would sue, I said go right ahead, you cant even get a printout to me that adds up to what you claim to owe me, I'm sure a judge would really like that one, she hung up.