Drew

DV Response from Arrow Financial Services

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"We have received your request for validation of the above-referenced account.

The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 U.S.C. 1692 (FDCPA), provides that unless you demand validation of your debt within thirty days of your receipt of our first letter to you (which contained the statutory notice required by the FCDPA), we are entitled to assume that your debt to us is valid and to continue collections efforts."

That was their letter to me after receiving my DV letter. This account was charged off as of November 2006. What should my next step be?

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I'd be verry interested to hear anyones thoughts on this as I too have just DV'd Arrow (have not received a response yet) and would like to know what to do as well.

In my EXTREEME NOOBISH opinion, I would think that their response is BS as you can request a DV at any time... it isn't required of you within 30 days of receipt of their initial letter to you.

Its like they are trying to use your lack of response to their letter as proof that you accept the validity of their collection efforts. I believe the statute specifically disclaims this time constraint.

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actually.. They are right. They do not have to reply at all if they don't want to. however, watch their TL very, very closely. They DO have to report that you dispute the debt. Since you where not timely they can continue to try and collect.

What I find absolutly amazing is that the CA can "say" they send the first letter when ever they want, even if you did not get it, and are not forced to show proof.

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"We have received your request for validation of the above-referenced account.

The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 U.S.C. 1692 (FDCPA), provides that unless you demand validation of your debt within thirty days of your receipt of our first letter to you (which contained the statutory notice required by the FCDPA), we are entitled to assume that your debt to us is valid and to continue collections efforts."

That was their letter to me after receiving my DV letter. This account was charged off as of November 2006. What should my next step be?

Can't your defence be that you didn't received no letter from them, and that you didn't know anything about this company until you seen it on your CR. That's what I said when I made a complaint to the AG and BBB about Palisades, and the TL was removed from CR.

Good Luck

Sjcraw

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Hm. I guess I'm still confused about what I should do next.

Obviously, Arrow feels like the ball is completely in their court and have denied my request. Do I not pay them and wait until the next CA takes over the account?

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Also, I forgot to mention that they're reporting the same balance on two credit reports, but a different one on the third. This dominant balance agrees with the balance on the response they just sent me.

It's a $60 difference, so do I have any case with that?

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When did they send you their intial letter and when did you write them back?

FACTA requires that you give them the chance to fix their TL's before you have a cause of action.

You have to write them, CMRRR, with what is wrong with each one. They should still list them all as "Disputed by consumer" whether your DV was timely or not.

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To answer your question, I'm not sure I ever received a letter from them. They claim they bought the account last November, which would put me at 5 months out.

Is there any samples letters of misreporting TL's?

I've also disputed their TL with the CRA's and it came back verified. I'm not sure that the CRA's are going to report a dispute status because of this.

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The fact that you didn't respond to the 1st notice is not an addmisson of debt. Tell them deny the debt and you dispute owing the debt.

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§ 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

(B) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

© The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer

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To answer your question, I'm not sure I ever received a letter from them.

Asset will do that sometimes. They probably didn't send you anything.

They really are a sleazy outfit. Suing them is really the only way to get rid of them.

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While there is no private right to action under this section, FCRA §623(a)(8) requires them to investigate your dispute and respond within 30 days. Complaints of this section are handled by the FTC.

Check your state laws also. Arizona law requires them to investigate upon request (read: any time you ask - no 30 day BS) and they have to stop collection efforts until they provide you the results of their investigation.

To answer your question about what to do next, wait until 40 days have passed since they received your DV. While you're waiting, research your state laws to find out if there is anything you can use there. Next, some may disagree, but I would send them a second request. I don't like citing laws at them because it's their job to know the laws, but I let them know I know the law by stating something like "you are required by state (where applicable) and federal law to investigate my dispute within 30 days." Because their 30 days are now up, the only proper thing for them to do is delete so at this point you'll either get a deletion or a violation which will determine your next course of action.

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To answer your question, I'm not sure I ever received a letter from them. They claim they bought the account last November, which would put me at 5 months out.

Is there any samples letters of misreporting TL's?

I've also disputed their TL with the CRA's and it came back verified. I'm not sure that the CRA's are going to report a dispute status because of this.

They don't have a choice. If you dispute the debt to the data furnisher, the DF must report that information to the CRA and the CRA must include that information in your credit file.

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There is also....

Excuse me! I never received any correspondence from your business. My first indication there was an alleged account was finding you on my CR. I am taking this to be our INITIAL communication regarding an alleged debt. My thirty days began when *I* first was notified (on this occasion being a pulled credit report) that there was a debt with you.

You owe me DV.

***

They can claim that they mailed a letter to you, but they cannot prove when or if you received it without CMRRR which they do not use.

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There is also....

Excuse me! I never received any correspondence from your business. My first indication there was an alleged account was finding you on my CR. I am taking this to be our INITIAL communication regarding an alleged debt. My thirty days began when *I* first was notified (on this occasion being a pulled credit report) that there was a debt with you.

You owe me DV.

***

They can claim that they mailed a letter to you, but they cannot prove when or if you received it without CMRRR which they do not use.

Be careful with this. While it may work to get validation, courts have consistently upheld that if the CA can demonstrate they mailed it, they're off the hook for this violation.

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Yet, they do have difficulty with this especially since many are known to have mailed it to expired addresses or if the address was entered incorrectly.

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(first of all, Sportlife, you ROCK! Thanks for posting that for us.)

As far as Arrow sending you that letter, they have basically, in their own words, on their own letter head, have told you that you have NO RIGHTS.

That HAS to be some kind of violation in it'self.

You should right them a nutcase letter explaining that you DO have rights, include the above codes that Sportlife posted and highlight them. Explain to them that they now have 15 days to show you billing statements, and mention that you are weary of this and your next step will be legal council.

As long as they believe that you believe you have no rights, they will push you to the limit in hopes of collecting this money.

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Yet, they do have difficulty with this especially since many are known to have mailed it to expired addresses or if the address was entered incorrectly.

Very true and if you never did get a letter, by all means, state this fact. My caution was to the claim that a consumer never received a dunning letter when in fact they had.

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§ 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

(B) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

© The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer

Thanks. Very valuable information.

Now do I cite this on my next letter to them or what?

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Actually, Arrow is correct in that they do not have to cease collection efforts if the DV you send is not timely. If you do not DV in the 30 day window, they can ignore your DV.

When the FDCPA says "The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer" what the statute is saying is that Arrow cannot use the fact that you did not DV to mean that you admit the debt is yours.

As far as claiming that the 30 day period does not start until you receive the initial communications, that will not work either. Note that the FDCPA says that they must SEND you the notice, not that you must receive it.

Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing

There is even a court decision that states that the CA does not have to prove they sent it, only that they hae a reasonable procedure in place to ensure that it was probably sent.

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As far as claiming that the 30 day period does not start until you receive the initial communications, that will not work either. Note that the FDCPA says that they must SEND you the notice, not that you must receive it.

Ahem.

a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice

The 30 day period starts when you receive it, not when they send it.

However, the date it was received may end up being an issue in court. If so, they must prove that they sent it. If they meet that burden, it is presumed received.

So if you can't offer any evidence as to why you did not receive it, it will be presumed received. There have been court cases when the consumer did offer evidence as to why the letter was not received (moving or incorrect address), and the court ruled in favor of the consumer.

The point is, you can't just say "well we never got it" in the face of the CA, who is in the business of mailing thousands of letters and presumably having standard procedures for mailing and documenting their mailing, showing evidence of actually having sent the letter.

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Alright, so what I'm reading is that I technically can not prove that they didn't send me a letter. Therefore, I can't dispute the debt anymore than they can deny validating it.

So, what are my options?

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In this case, I would send them a cease comm. They WILL have to provide proper validation in court if they decide to sue.

Plus, even though it wasn't tiemley, the "Dispute" part doesn't need to be for them to have to list the tradeline as such, but you have to demand that they still list it as disputed in the letter. If they don't, then you have a violation along with any others.

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In this case, I would send them a cease comm. They WILL have to provide proper validation in court if they decide to sue.

Plus, even though it wasn't tiemley, the "Dispute" part doesn't need to be for them to have to list the tradeline as such, but you have to demand that they still list it as disputed in the letter. If they don't, then you have a violation along with any others.

Wait, list disputed on what letter?

I already sent a C&D along with the DV.

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Guest Jary
Wait, list disputed on what letter?

I am guessing he meant on your Credit Report TL from them it has to now say that consumer disputes account.

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