Pre-Collections vs. Credit Collections

[EngineeringMonkey]

Qwest (Colorado phone company) sent my phone bill into collections for a 30 days past due long distance bill - my teenage daughter accepted $800 in collect calls from her boyfriend in the county jail. To make a long story short, in June I received a notice from ER Solutions with a Client Account # and an ERS Account # and the standard body stating - "This notice is being sent to you by a collection agency. The records of Qwest indicate ... and so on." On the backside of the notice was the required FDCPA notification of my right to dispute the debt, which I did. My dispute was that I did NOT owe Qwest any money, since the company listed on the phone bill was called Correctional Billing Services (also, I continued to pay all other portions of my bill to Qwest, I simply did not pay the portion for collect phone calls).

To date, I have received eleven phone calls from ER Solutions and a brand new form letter, with a brand new ERS Account #, but no verification of the disputed debt. Until a phone conversation yesterday, I had never even received acknowledgement of my dispute. Then yesterday, I was informed that my dispute WAS received, that it was reviewed by Qwest, that is was invalidated and that my account was sent from ER Solutions "Pre Collections" department to their "Credit Collections" department and that I wasn't entitled to any verification on my first dispute, because Qwest claimed the dispute was invalid. Is this a "new and improved" way for CA's to get around debt validation and disputes? Unfortunately, I had already sent ER Solutions a scathing letter BEFORE speaking with the rep yesterday, in which I imply that they are racking up a debt to me in civil liablity charges. I imagine they are having quite a laugh at being able to put one over on the Federal Trade Commission and the average consumer.

Incidentally, both collection notices are identical, except for the ERS Account #'s and the name and phone number of the debt collector. The Client Account #'s are the same, even the damn ER Solutions address is the same. There is NOTHING that would differentiate these two accounts as one being "pre-collections" and one being "credit collections":confused:

[willingtocope]

Welcome...

And, CAs have a habit of naming their "departments" with overly important sounding names in order to make you feel like some major event has taken place, and you better take care of it before them move it on to "legal".

In truth, there's a good chance the same person will be calling you next (with a different title) or, if not that, then the guy at the next desk gets it.

Don't worry about their mind games...you've done the right thing to dispute it.

[EngineeringMonkey]

Don't worry about their mind games...you've done the right thing to dispute it.

So....are they in to me to the tune of 12k or am I spinning my wheels? The funniest part of this entire thing is that the only reason I even bothered looking so closely at my phone bill was that when I first got this collection notice, I called ER Solutions and told them that I would make monthly payments of $100 on the bill and they turned me down cold and said I had to pay in full immediately. Now, I know that they don't have to accept payments, but then I got pissed that they wouldn't deal with me, so I took a close look at my bill and realized that technically, I didn't owe Qwest a dime on those collect calls. So I disputed the collection action. But it seems to me that by claiming I have been sent from one department to another is a slick CA way around the dispute verification. The bad news for ER Solutions is that even IF they believe they pulled a fast one on me, I have 4 saved voice mails from 2 weeks AFTER they received my dispute in which they leave a message "attempting to collect a debt" and leave an ID number that is the "pre-collections" ERS Account #. Morons. By the way, I did record yesterday's phone call, in which the supervisor tells me that I am just trying to get out of paying my debt on a technicality (unlike ER Solutions with their pre-collections and credit collections departments) and that I am only stalling. No, unfortunately for Qwest, ER Solutions turned down my payment offer and forced me to take a closer look at my phone bill and notice what may consititute a 'loophole'.

[divemedic]

Then yesterday, I was informed that my dispute WAS received, that it was reviewed by Qwest, that is was invalidated and that my account was sent from ER Solutions "Pre Collections" department to their "Credit Collections" department and that I wasn't entitled to any verification on my first dispute, because Qwest claimed the dispute was invalid.

That is not legal, and is a misrepresentation of the legal status of the debt. Violation.

[PolarBearnCO]

my teenage daughter accepted $800 in collect calls from her boyfriend in the county jail.

My dispute was that I did NOT owe Qwest any money...

I guess we all have varying morals and ethics but maybe you should consider teaching your daughter a lesson and making her pay for this instead of trying to screw QWest over or worse, putting yourself in a bad position later.

I guess if you have to lie to your phone company to live another day, then hopefully you never meet our Creator. May The Force be with you.

[EngineeringMonkey]

I guess we all have varying morals and ethics but maybe you should consider teaching your daughter a lesson and making her pay for this instead of trying to screw QWest over or worse, putting yourself in a bad position later.

I guess if you have to lie to your phone company to live another day, then hopefully you never meet our Creator. May The Force be with you.

Jeez - if you had read my posts in their entirety, you would have seen that I immediately called the collection agency and tried to make a payment arrangement of $100.00 a month on the bill. I realized that my daughter accepted the calls and I was trying, in good faith, to make good on the calls. I simply didn't have $800 to pay the bill and didn't realize that I would be put in collections for being 30 days past due - as I stated, I did continue to pay ALL other portions of my bill. Additionally, I have not disputed that I owe SOMEONE the money for the collect calls, simply that I owe Qwest the money. It is unfortunate for Qwest that my payment attempts were not accepted initially and that I happen to have an eye for detail; however, a simple receipt from Qwest showing that they paid Correctional Billing Services for the collect calls would have been verification of the debt and I would have attempted to make another payment arrangement. I am not responsible for ER Solutions refusal to verify a disputed debt.

- and the Force is always with me - thanks for your concern.

[willingtocope]

Easy folks...

PolarBearnCO: Leave the morality at the door. That's not what this forum is about. We help each other when we can....and keep our mouths shut when we can't, or don't want to.

EngineeringMonkey: Help me understand this. You're saying that Qwest paid Correctional Billing for collect calls, and is now trying to collect the money from you? Where does the 12k come in?

[EngineeringMonkey]

EngineeringMonkey: Help me understand this. You're saying that Qwest paid Correctional Billing for collect calls, and is now trying to collect the money from you? Where does the 12k come in?

[willingtocope]

So, ER Solutions is a collection agency. Period. Doesn't matter what department they call themselves. And, as DiveMedic said, when you DV'd them, they must respond in writing with validation of the debt from the original creditor. So, yes, that is a violation. But...the FDCPA allows for up to $1000 per action...not per violation...so, at best, right now, you might stick them with a grand.

But...have you talked directly to Qwest about this? I'd suggest you give them a call. Work you way up the food chain until you find someone who can make a decesion, and tell them what's been going on. Explain to them that ER Solutions keeps violating the FDCPA and you're just not comfortable working with them. Ask Qwest to recall the account, and you'll be glad to work out payment arrangements with them.

[EngineeringMonkey]

So, ER Solutions is a collection agency. Period. Doesn't matter what department they call themselves. And, as DiveMedic said, when you DV'd them, they must respond in writing with validation of the debt from the original creditor. So, yes, that is a violation. But...the FDCPA allows for up to $1000 per action...not per violation...so, at best, right now, you might stick them with a grand.

But...have you talked directly to Qwest about this? I'd suggest you give them a call. Work you way up the food chain until you find someone who can make a decesion, and tell them what's been going on. Explain to them that ER Solutions keeps violating the FDCPA and you're just not comfortable working with them. Ask Qwest to recall the account, and you'll be glad to work out payment arrangements with them.

So - it's per action, not per violation? No wonder CA's continue to violate the FDCPA, what in the world would be the incentive to NOT to? And yes, I did speak directly with Qwest about this. I happened to change from Qwest to Comcast in June because Qwest kept screwing up my DSL, so I simply dropped Qwest phone service completely (I suspect that's one reason I was put in collections so quickly). At any rate, I tried in July to arrange payments with them and they very nicely said that payments were done as an incentive to keep a customer and since I was no longer a customer there was no incentive to make a payment plan and that I was welcome to make payments, but that I would still be in collections and still have a bad credit report. I'm not an unethical person trying to not to pay her debts, I'm simply someone who didn't happen to have $800 lying around to pay off her crappy teenagers phone bill.

Of course, the reason Qwest will never give me a receipt proving they actually paid the bill is because obviously they didn't pay the full amount they are asking me for - I suspect they paid something like 30% on it. This whole thing started because I couldn't afford to pay the entire amount - what a hassle.

[divemedic]

A side question for all of the legal scholars:

Can a child agreeing to accept charges for collect calls be legally binding? After all, children cannot enter contracts...

To the OP: I agree with you. It isn't about paying or not paying. I do not pay ANY bill that is in collections. There is no incentive to pay. After all, whether you pay or not, you still get a negative mark on your credit.

[EngineeringMonkey]

A side question for all of the legal scholars:

Can a child agreeing to accept charges for collect calls be legally binding? After all, children cannot enter contracts...

To the OP: I agree with you. It isn't about paying or not paying. I do not pay ANY bill that is in collections. There is no incentive to pay. After all, whether you pay or not, you still get a negative mark on your credit.

Well, unfortunately for me, the rotten teenager is 18 years old. But I did originally try the "she's underage" line with Qwest, who said it didn't matter, because the phone was in my name and they weren't trying to collect from her, they were collecting from me. It's interesting that you use the "no incentive" line, because that's exactly what Qwest told me when I tried to set up a payment plan. Since I had switched service from Qwest to Comcast, on my own I might add, Qwest openly admitted that they had no incentive to accept any payment plan from me and so I would remain in collections.

As to the credit report issue - I'm wondering if I can do an end run around the collection agency? I'm not an idiot - I know that I will eventually have to pay this bill - the kid did accept the collect calls. I only disputed it because I was pissed that they wouldn't accept a payment plan and not only did I not want to put it on my credit card and pay interest on it, but I was too close to my limit and so I was basically stalling until my credit card bill was paid down enough to put the entire amount on it (which I can now). At any rate, I wonder what would happen if I called Qwest directly and asked them to pull it out of assignment to ER Solutions and told them that I would pay it in full? Then ER Solutions couldn't report it to the credit bureau correct?

Although it might seem otherwise, I really don't want this hassle, I just didn't have the money lying around at the time I got this bill. People assume as an engineer I must always have money, but I have had close to $5000 in out of pocket medical expenses so far this year, which I have paid in cash - I'm just tapped out. And yes - the kid and her boyfriend WILL be paying me back, in some way, shape or form.

[PolarBearnCO]

Additionally, I have not disputed that I owe SOMEONE the money for the collect calls, simply that I owe Qwest the money.

Sorry, I guess I'm still not understanding who you think you owe money to, if it's not Qwest. This is pretty much how all phone companies work. Any collect calls are charged to the end user (you) through the phone company (Qwest) and generally phone services are PIF. The good news is that phone companies accept credit cards.

[PolarBearnCO]

A side question for all of the legal scholars:

Can a child agreeing to accept charges for collect calls be legally binding? After all, children cannot enter contracts...

The contract is not with the person that makes the call, but the person that sets up the service. When setting up phone service, you are agreeing to pay for any and all services charged regardless of who owns the hand on the receiver. Phone companies also have collect call and 900-number blocks that can be activated upon request to prevent this very thing from happening.

[EngineeringMonkey]

Sorry, I guess I'm still not understanding who you think you owe money to, if it's not Qwest. This is pretty much how all phone companies work. Any collect calls are charged to the end user (you) through the phone company (Qwest) and generally phone services are PIF. The good news is that phone companies accept credit cards.

The portion of my phone bill where the calls show up is under the long distance heading. On the top of the list of collect call transactions it states "The following transaction is billed on behalf of: Correctional Billing Svcs". At the bottom of the list of calls, it then states "This portion of your bill is provided as a service to Corrections Billing Svcs. There is no connection between Qwest and Correctional Billing Svcs."

Frankly, as I have said in my other posts, I had every intention of paying this bill and I simply asked both Qwest and the collection agency to accept payments of $100 a month - both refused to accept payments. I still have every intention of paying this bill, it's just that now I have to question to whom I am supposed to be paying the bill. The good news is, their outright refusal to accept my payment plan forced me to examine my phone bill more closely and of course, like any good consumer, I had to question which company I was to actually pay. If there is no connection between Qwest and Correctional Billing Svcs, then why on earth would Qwest have me in collections, rather than Correctional Billing Svcs? All I have done is exercise my legal right to dispute this debt and ask for ER Solutions to verify why I owe Qwest, as opposed to Correctional Billing Svcs. I just don't understand why ER Solutions refuses to provide me with any attempt at verification whatsoever and yet they continue to violate the FDCPA by continuing collection attempts.

I would be willing to pay Correctional Billing Svcs directly, should they get in touch with me. Perhaps I will contact them about this matter and see about making arrangements. I would also be more than happy to reimburse Qwest if they would simply provide me with the invoices and receipts showing that they did, in fact, pay this portion of the bill, on my behalf. I don't understand why they are fighting me so hard on this, when all I am doing is trying my hardest to pay my debt.