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Federal Tax Lien


Lewis8739
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Hello all,

I'm new to this forum and I've learned quite a bit. I've been reading about two months now and have made significant progress on my CR and my wifes.:D

I have one problem. I have a judgement from an apartment complex that I went to court on and made payment arrangements. I checked my CR and it shows that there's a Federal Tax Lien as a result. How can I have a federal tax lien when taxes were not involved. I'm a little confused.:confused:

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I checked my CR and it shows that there's a Federal Tax Lien as a result. How can I have a federal tax lien when taxes were not involved. I'm a little confused.:confused:

I think you are incorrect in assuming that the tax lien is related to the judgment--that sounds like way to odd of an error for a law firm to make--it just doesn't even make sense. What I think you might have is a tax lien that is separate from the judgment that you had against you.

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I had an old state tax lien from a state I worked in temporarily. I tried to pay it off a couple of years ago, it was less that $130. The check was sent back witha note saying they couldn't find the account. After a couple of hours of telephone tag, I finally got the right person on the phone, and explained it all to him. He was able to look it up and saw that I was just working a temp job for a company based in my home state, and shouldn't have been liable for tax in his state. It was also 12 years old, and he stated it should be out of SOL anyway, so he told me just to do a CRA dispute and it should be removed. Did that, it was only on TU and EQ anyway. I did the dispute, and it dropped off. Did a TC update yesterday, and its back on EQ. Dispute again?

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I just received a response back from EQ stating that this information has been verified. How can a judgement that isn't tax related be considered a "Federal Tax Lien" and not be wrong?! They left it on my report! Do I need to dispute this again and if I do what do I dispute it as?

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Lewis,

Perhaps you may want to consider this approach:

To insure that the lien is not a Federal "Notice" of Tax lien. Go to or write the Department of State there where you live. and request a UCC form entitled a UCC-11 and a UCC-3. Fill out the UCC-11 and send it back to the DOS w/ the filing fee (usually $5- $10) ask the clerk how much. You should within a week or two receive a response back from the DOS notifying you that there is "no record" or "no record found", or some wording to that effect. Then take the information you received on the UCC-11 and put that onto the UCC-3. You then use the UCC-3 as the basis for you proof that there is no Federal Tax lien on file with the DOS, (because all federal and state tax agencies are to file with the DOS any VALID tax liens. Caution- this does NOT include "Notices" of Federal tax liens however) when you contact the Clerk of Courts office in your county where the lien is allegedly filed. If it were me, I would mail off a copy of the UCC-3 and a letter (in the form of a notice) and put them on notice, that I intend to file suit if this information is not redacted from the public record. And refer to the information you obtained from the DOS as evidenced by the UCC-3. In addition, I would notify them that if they fail to remove this false information from the PR then you will take steps to have their bond revoked. (which isn't all that hard to do BTW).

This tactic usually will get their attention as most clerks of court don't want to loose their job over something so easy to fix. However, if they still don't want to play ball, well then you may have to file a writ of mandamus or some other civil process to cause them to capitulate.

FM

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WOW!!! I didn't know! I really appreciate this information because it's frustrating to have that on my CR when it's a civil judgment and not a Federal tax lien. When I get the form back should I dispute it again with the CRA and include the information I receive back so it can be removed? Or is it better for me to send it directly to the courts?

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Lewis,

Perhaps you may want to consider this approach:

To insure that the lien is not a Federal "Notice" of Tax lien. Go to or write the Department of State there where you live. and request a UCC form entitled a UCC-11 and a UCC-3. Fill out the UCC-11 and send it back to the DOS w/ the filing fee (usually $5- $10) ask the clerk how much. You should within a week or two receive a response back from the DOS notifying you that there is "no record" or "no record found", or some wording to that effect. Then take the information you received on the UCC-11 and put that onto the UCC-3. You then use the UCC-3 as the basis for you proof that there is no Federal Tax lien on file with the DOS, (because all federal and state tax agencies are to file with the DOS any VALID tax liens. Caution- this does NOT include "Notices" of Federal tax liens however) when you contact the Clerk of Courts office in your county where the lien is allegedly filed. If it were me, I would mail off a copy of the UCC-3 and a letter (in the form of a notice) and put them on notice, that I intend to file suit if this information is not redacted from the public record. And refer to the information you obtained from the DOS as evidenced by the UCC-3. In addition, I would notify them that if they fail to remove this false information from the PR then you will take steps to have their bond revoked. (which isn't all that hard to do BTW).

This tactic usually will get their attention as most clerks of court don't want to loose their job over something so easy to fix. However, if they still don't want to play ball, well then you may have to file a writ of mandamus or some other civil process to cause them to capitulate.

FM

Jestor, have you done this? Did yours get removed?

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Jason and Lewis,

Yes, I have done this here in Pennsylvania. However, the circumstances were different though. First, I went though the UCC tactic as I mentioned previously, HOWEVER, the main reason I did this was due to the fact that the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania ,Department of Revenue, filed a PA "Notice" of State Tax Lien (emphasis mine). You see, most (99%) of ALL Federal and State Tax Lien are never ever filed in the proper way a legitimate tax lien is filed. Mainly because, for there to be a valid tax lien there must be a "judicial determination" upon the merits of the subject-matter (case), including the proper filing into the State commercial section of the Department of State, ( a requirement due to the fact that states are corporations and must be governed by the UCC in commerce). HOWEVER, most tax collection agencies (i.e.-IRS, State DOR, etc..etc), DO NOT FOLLOW lawful civil court process, and the judges for the most part let them get away with this kind of lawlessness, usually NOBODY takes the tax agencies to task over the issue. Therefore, almost all of the so-called tax lien are nothing more than "NOTICES" = correspondence. Correspondence do not have legal authority to compel action, NOTICES are the prerequisite to the filling of legal process generally. However, when an actual tax lien exists, there has to be notice and opportunity of the party receiving said tax lien, to request a hearing of the merits. IOW, BEFORE anyone can legally anyone execute a judgment, there MUST be a prior judicial determination in a court of law, wherein the party sued has equal opportunity to defend the claim against them. This DOES NOT happen with the majority of so-called tax liens i.e.- NOTICES = Correspondence= no lawful authority to seize or encumber property or rights!!! PERIOD!

So, the reason I went into this longwinded explaination was, I use the info on the UCC to compel the clerk of court (who is the one who is supposed to know the law and proper procedure for filing liens) to remove the lien from the Public record. Wherein, I address this issue in a formal "Notice and Demand", that if they fail to remove the "Notice" of Tax lien from the public record, as my proof will show, that there is NO REAL and/or NO ACTUAL lien on record with the PA Dept. of State. That they (the clerks office) is in violation of ther sworn oath of office and bonding terms and conditions, for allowing false and fraudulent information to be placed on the public record, without any prior court adjudication.

FM

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WOW!!! I didn't know! I really appreciate this information because it's frustrating to have that on my CR when it's a civil judgment and not a Federal tax lien. When I get the form back should I dispute it again with the CRA and include the information I receive back so it can be removed? Or is it better for me to send it directly to the courts?

Lewis, Please do not mis-understand the information I mentioned concerning the UCC. It is for the Clerk of court or the person or agency where the lien is filed or maintained. Keep in mind that this information will do nothing to compel the CRA/CA/DC or anyone else in the public realm in most cases. The method I described is for reeling in public officials who are the custodian of the public record, (where it ALL begins). Your CRA wouldn't have the negative info on you CR if the info wasn't on the PR to begin with..Right?

What I am proposing to you is going after the person(s) responsible for placing false and misleading info. on the PR, HOWEVER, if it is a VALID lien everything I mentioned about the UCC may not help.

FM

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I really appreciate your honesty and expertise in this matter. I understand that the purpose of doing this is to correct the error the state has made. I've downloaded both forms from the state of Tennessee's web site and I will mail the first one off tomorrow. It's $15 to have it done.

Is there a letter that needs to accompany the UCC-3 explaining the situation or is having the UCC-11 with it enough?

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I really appreciate your honesty and expertise in this matter. I understand that the purpose of doing this is to correct the error the state has made. I've downloaded both forms from the state of Tennessee's web site and I will mail the first one off tomorrow. It's $15 to have it done.

Is there a letter that needs to accompany the UCC-3 explaining the situation or is having the UCC-11 with it enough?

The UCC-11 is called an "information request", wherein you fill out the form with you name, address etc. this form is then sent back to the Dept. Of State w/ the proper fee and the DOS will then do a search within their records to determine if there is a lien or other UCC filing naming you as either a secured party or a debtor. After you receive a response from the DOS in a few days, you will most likely find that the DOS did not find anything with your name on it. As such, you would then enter the information contained on the UCC-11 and enter it onto the UCC-3, which is called a "Change in Financing Statement", read the directions on the back of the UCC-3 to determine how to fill it out. You then would use the UCC-3 with a cover letter to the clerk of court or county commissioner, or judge or whomever, is responsible for the administration of the recorders office (public record) and Notice them, you are intending to sue if they do not immediately remove the false information.

FM

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excellent info!!....I have a state tax lien that I am going to pay soon and I will use the info here. I have not had much incentive to pay it--knowing how difficult they are to remove (been concentrating on other acts that help my score)[/quote

Is this alleged tax lien in regards to an unpaid state "income" tax??? IF it is, did you get a notice of a hearing? If not you should have, it's the law in most states if not all. Did the State tax agency send you a Notice and Demand for unpaid tax that was signed under penalties of perjury, PRIOR to them filing a lien? If not, the state is violating several administrative procedures i.e- ( some statue has been violated, as a result of their refusal to properly notice you and your right to a hearing). Were you sent a VALID ASSESSMENT of the type of tax, describing the taxable activity you are claimed to have been involved in, thereby creating a tax liability???? I doubt it!! But if you did get such a document, you should hold onto it, since it is most likely the ONLY ONE OF IT'S KIND!!! You could probally make millions on ebay with it. lol... Not to mention creating a MAJOR problem for the person who sent it to you. They, would be in violation of nearly the whole IRC and corresponding regulations, as well as, Constitutional rights violations= BIG BUX FOR YOU!!!!!

But I'm willing to guess you merely received.... what we law students refer to as a.... are you in suspense yet??? A NOTICE! and nothing more...PERIOD! IOW, if you look at the document you are calling a tax lien, you will most likely find the word Notice somewhere on the very first few lines of print, usually at the very top of the document. lol... These state tax people..he-he they think we backward country folks are stupid. They think/believe, if they(the state) print up paper that says on it's face, "NOTICE OF [sTATE/FEDERAL] TAX LIEN" that we will be shakin' in our boots, and run on down to the nearest mailbox and send off a check to keep the horrible (boogie-tax-me-to-death) man from getting us. Nothing could be farther from the TRUTH!

Resistance to tyranny is obedience to Yahweh (i.e.- G-O-D) Thomas Jefferson - One of our founding fathers.

FM

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Lewis PM me if u have specific questions..but spend time reading the stickies and I will update my personal repair thread soon.

jestor1776--Thanks for the info...wish I had known this sooner!!

for a quick recap, the proper filing of a lien requires the following:

a. some sort record of the lien at the dept of state

b. Notice and demand for unpaid tax-signed under penalties of perjury

c. Valid assessment of the tax

B&C are needed in order to properly inform the debtor of his/her right to a hearing prior to a lien being filed..

Use UCC-11 to check for a...IF not found, use UCC-3 to correct and then go challenge the clerk...I will still need to research the exact GA statutes to quote if I need to take this further

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  • 3 weeks later...

If it were a legit Tax Lien, would I have received a court date? I believe that my Tax lien was just that a "Notice" but I want to reread it and look for whatever it is that makes it a valid IRS Tax lien.

What happen to me was I mailed in the request for a payment plan (which was approved and I have been paying faithfully for 12 months) a week later after mailing the request I got this "Notice of TAx Lien". A week later, I got the approval for payment plan letter.At that point I assumed they beat me to it. So when I saw it on my CR a few months later, I've been letting it sit there thinking there isn't much I can do.

If anyone has any feedback it would greatly appreciated....

Thanks

K

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