Does a CA phone call satisfy the proper notification process?

[pbpb]

I was called for the first time by NCO today and have had no letters from them previously.

The automated caller left a message on my machine giving me a unknown reference number I was to use but I have no idea to what debt she's referring.

She also identified the company as "NCO Financial, a debt collection service" and she "was required by law to tell me that this was an attempt to collect a debt and all information would be used for that purpose."

1. Was mentioning the debt collection a violation?

(I've asked the "search box" and re-searched the threads and can't find my answer. I think I read somewhere that they have to say "it's a matter of importance" but they can't say anything about debt.)

2. Can a telephone call serve as proper notification or does the first contact need to be followed up within five days by written notice?

3. Should I respond to the phone call with a spontaneous DV request or wait until I receive their letter and then respond with a DV?

Finally, thank you for the thread on "NCO success." I was surprised to see such prompt and positive responses from NCO. I wasn't expecting that. I hope they're still in a good mood if I need to send my letter!

From Credit coward to Credit warrior!

Scores soaring soon...thanks to you guys!

[merkurfan]

They have 5 days to mail you a dunning letter. The information left on your machine is likely a violation because it would fall under third party disclosure. They have no idea if the machine they left that message on belongs to you. They just got lucky this time. Record the message or save the tape and start a file on them for violations. watch for something in the mail from them or do what most of us would do right now, search for NCO's address and send them a blanket DV.

You called on such and such a date, I was informed of this call and thus I am sending you this letter demanding validation of any and all debts listed in your offce in my name. I am also informing you that any and all calls to my home phone are recorded any all calls to my place of employment are forbidden.

Thank you..

(type your name, do not sign)

[pbpb]

merkurfan...thank you.

I just read a post here last night about another possible violation - they are not listed on my CR....so I may two violations to leverage so far.

Thanks again

[merkurfan]

Not being listed on you CR is not a violation. it's a blessing. Use a timely DV to keep them off

[pbpb]

Terrific...thank you!

[analog_kid]

Mercantile tried the same thing with me. I got a call from them not know who the heck they were and they started asking me about a Visa I had. About a week later I got the letter. They never listed anything on my CR so I got that DV letter out ASAP.

[cocotel]

To be clear about this--

if you DV the CA and tell them not to call you or neighbors or anyone else and they still call after you get the green card back in the mail---is this allowed? CA called, left messages for over a month before sending a letter to me in mail. I DV'd right after getting letter. Got the green card back in mail, & they are still calling me. What do I do?

[analog_kid]

To be clear about this--

if you DV the CA and tell them not to call you or neighbors or anyone else and they still call after you get the green card back in the mail---is this allowed? CA called, left messages for over a month before sending a letter to me in mail. I DV'd right after getting letter. Got the green card back in mail, & they are still calling me. What do I do?

I'd file a complaint with the attorney general's office. They are liable for up to $100,000 at $1000 per violation.

[pbpb]

Cocotel: I think you have to file a Cease & Desist letter, not just a Debt Validation letter, in order to pursue any violations of further contact from them.

[Rick9972]

NCO Financial Sys.

507 Prudential Road

Horsham, PA 19044

This address has worked well for me.

[Textoy]

The basic rules are (FDCPA Section 809):

First contact via phone where you actually talk to them. Phone message asking you to call is not 1st contact.

If, yes I said if, they do not disclose all of the requirements to you in that phone call, then, and only then, are they REQUIRED to send a dunning letter. Most people do not grasp what all is said over the phone so you need to have them send the dunning letter.

If, they have to send a dunning letter, the collector (and that can have different meanings) has to send you a letter that is post marked within 5 days of the day of first contact.

The debtor has to respond (DV) within thirty days after receipt of the notice. Note the word receipt which is directly from the FDCPA.

Upon recieving the debtors DV (CMRR for YOUR protection), the CA

1) Has to stop all further collection efforts UNTIL they provide the validation back to the consumer (mailing, phone, e-mail, etc).

2) If, yes I said if, the CA HAS already reported to the CRA, then they have to report that the account is in dispute to all CRAs that they have reported to.

NOTE: There is absolutly no federal law requiring the OC/CA to report to CRAs

The rules say they cannot continue collection activities. What they don't say:

1) That the CA is required to respond to your DV. They can stop all collection efforts, return it to the OC and not tell you. The OC could assign it to a deifferent CA and it starts over. It screwed up but under current law, it happens

2) That the CA is required to respond to your DV in 30 days. Nope, they do not have to reply but the also cannot continue collection efforts.

[pbpb]

Thanks so much Textoy for spelling out the specifics so clearly. Just to parse it further, here's my follow-up question..

[i haven't figured out how to do the quote thing so I have to do my own..but this is your comment ]

"First contact via phone where you actually talk to them. Phone message asking you to call is not 1st contact.

If, yes I said if, they do not disclose all of the requirements to you in that phone call, then, and only then, are they REQUIRED to send a dunning letter."

My phone call was not a conversation but left on the machine...however, I they left a "micro-mini-Miranda"...nothing about 30 days or anything...just "this is a debt collection agency calling about a debt."

So, not only was it not an in-person contact, it really wasn't a full mini-Miranda either. So, because it's not technically a first-contact, they are not required to send a dunning letter.

Thanks again!

[Textoy]

At top of page, select FDCPA and scroll down to section 809. Don't read things into it. It is actually written fairly clear.

Regarding phone messages. Most CAs do not say much in a phone message because of the 3rd party clause in FDCPA section 804. They can get sued for saying to much. For record keeping

"NCO Financial, a debt collection service" and she "was required by law to tell me that this was an attempt to collect a debt and all information would be used for that purpose."

more or less a violation under section 804. However, you need several violations to pursue a lawsuit in order to show willfull contempt of the law.

[pbpb]

Great...thanks...and thanks for reminding where to find the original..I'll go back and read it again!