Ordered furniture, used Bill-Me-Later, didn't get furniture, but have to pay??

[snowonder]

Hi all, I hope someone here can help me.

On July 6, 2007, I ordered a dining room set from Design Dining, which was owned by the "Gately's" family of websites. When I ordered, the next page gave me login info so that I could check the status of my order. Oh yeah, I elected to pay using Bill Me Later since it was deferred payments til 11/2007. The dining set was supposed to be delivered on 8/14/2007. That date came and went. I logged into their site in September, and it stated that the set was STILL on backorder, and that if I WANTED it, I would have to "click here". If I didn't "click here", the order would be automatically cancelled. I opted to have the order automatically cancelled. My Bill Me Later account has never been credited. I assumed, wrongly, that it had been, until I got my statement (the first one after the deferred payments period).

I called Bill Me Later and explained the situation. I'm sure they're aware of it, since none of the "Gately's" family of websites are merchants for Bill Me Later (probably b/c they filed BANKRUPTCY). I have sent in a dispute and formal complaint to Bill Me Later's Consumer Dispute Center, so we'll see how that goes.

I have very good credit, and have worked really hard for it. Bill Me Later said on the phone that they do not report (2 different reps told me this). Tonight, someone from Bill Me Later contacted me saying that my account is in "collections", and I told him that this charge is being disputed, and that was the end of that conversation.

Is Bill Me Later going to try to force me to pay for this merchandise that I never even got? What can I do to assure that this won't go on my credit report? How can I resolve this? I considered paying the $666.09, but dang, that's a lot of money for something I never got. I only considered paying it to assure my credit report stays clean.

I've read about "NDA's", on here, but I don't know if that's what I should try to do, or who I get to write it (an attorney??). I've also read a lot of other things on here that I don't get (not sure about some of the abbreviations).

Any advice you could give me would be most appreciated.

This company, Gately's, is a complete fraud. I can't believe I was so stupid. I trusted them b/c they were a merchant for Bill Me Later. I'll never make that mistake again.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

The first thing I would do is to very carefuly read whatever documents you have - you (or an attorney) need to establish exactly what the legal relationship is between you and the "Bill Me Later" group...until you know for sure there is no way anyone can give you reasonable advice.

While it is certainly not fair, the fact that you never received the furniture may not, by itself, eliminate your obligation to Bill Me Later.

While not a perfect analogy, it's not all that disimilar to going to a bank to get a loan on a new car...the fact that the car may be a lemon doesn't get you out of your obligation to the bank. However, if the bank has a special arrangement with the dealer; you might have an "out".

Good luck.

[snowonder]

While not a perfect analogy, it's not all that disimilar to going to a bank to get a loan on a new car...the fact that the car may be a lemon doesn't get you out of your obligation to the bank. However, if the bank has a special arrangement with the dealer; you might have an "out".

Good luck.

I wouldn't be as upset if I had at least got SOMETHING, I didn't get ANYTHING. Not nice furniture, no "lemon" furniture, NOTHING. I got ZILCH. It really ticks me off. I wish I had just paid w/my American Express or some other credit card. It's pathetic that Bill Me Later pays these people for items that are on BACKORDER. They shouldn't charge you until the stuff has shipped. I've decided that I'm not gonna pay it. I just cringe at the "black eye" that this might well put on my credit report. I would like to avoid that if at all possible. There doesn't appear to be any consumer protection w/Bill Me Later. With credit card purchases, you have some sort of safety net, but that doesn't appear to be so w/Bill Me Later. I just cannot justify paying almost $700, even at the cost of it being put on my credit report. UGH!

So should I contact an attorney? You guys are the experts, so that's why I'm here.

[merkurfan]

Hold off on lawyering up just yet. Let BML figure out what they are going to do. If you do not agree then its probably time for a lawyer. There has got to be some consumer protection laws for you to read up on in the meantime. I don't care if BML paid them, you did not get what you ordered and allowed the order to be canceled. Seems to me it is a law (or maybe just a card issuer rule. then it would not apply) that they can not bill your credit account until the item is ready to ship.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Hold off on lawyering up just yet. Let BML figure out what they are going to do. If you do not agree then its probably time for a lawyer. There has got to be some consumer protection laws for you to read up on in the meantime. I don't care if BML paid them, you did not get what you ordered and allowed the order to be canceled. Seems to me it is a law (or maybe just a card issuer rule. then it would not apply) that they can not bill your credit account until the item is ready to ship.

Unfortunately situations like this aren't about what might seem "fair"; it's about the legal arrangement that esisted between the three parties...harsh as it might be, there comes a point that the consumer has to take responsibility for his/her actions and what he/she agreed to.

Were this store still in business and not bankrupt; I doubt very many hwere would be saying it's BML's fault that he didn't get his furniture...the fact that the consumer can't go after that store now doesn't mean the fault shifts to BML.

[snowonder]

Unfortunately situations like this aren't about what might seem "fair"; it's about the legal arrangement that esisted between the three parties...harsh as it might be, there comes a point that the consumer has to take responsibility for his/her actions and what he/she agreed to.

Yeah, but the agreement was that I would actually receive the furniture, and I never did. I certainly didn't agree to pay $575.99 (which has now accrued interest and late fees) with nothing in return. I was also not aware that BML would pay these people before the order had even shipped. You would think that Chase, which owns BML, would know better than to do that type of thing, but it really doesn't matter now, b/c it can't be undone. BML is out $575.99 b/c they paid the company for items that had not even shipped, and were on BACKORDER. I know it's not an issue of fairness, but geez, you'd think there'd be some sort of protection for the consumer, just like with credit cards.

Do I need an attorney to draw up papers for an NDA? Although it really ticks me right on off to think of paying ANYTHING to ANYONE for items not received, I might be inclined to pay a LITTLE something to just keep my credit report clean. I would like to think that BML would be inclined to accept something like this, rather than get ZERO, which is what I'm pretty much leaning towards.

Are there sample NDAs on this site? I'm just trying to stay one step ahead in case I receive a response from BML stating that I'm still responsible for making payment (which is a joke). Honestly, I'd like to tell them exactly where they can stick it. I'm sorry, I'm just beyond livid about this whole situation. If my credit sucked, it wouldn't matter, but my credit history is excellent w/NO bad marks. I've worked for years to build substantial and good credit, and now it might get a blackeye b/c I was scammed. I mean, that company continued to operate their websites AFTER they filed for bankruptcy. Seems like the criminals have ALL the rights.

[merkurfan]

This applies to the CIT bill me later. I forgot, there is two bill me later services... Which one are you dealing with?

7. I ALSO PROMISE:

a. To pay for all purchases made by me and by someone I authorized to use this Account. You (and any person who may decide whether I am liable for amounts charged to this Account) may presume that I have authorized any purchase made in my name using this Account, if the purchase is delivered in my name to my address, unless I return the purchase to the Merchant within a reasonable period of time. I will not be responsible for any unauthorized purchases using this Account.

So, you promise to pay if someone orders it, or you order it and it was shipped to your address. I think that is your out. Nothing was ever shipped.

27. BORROWER'S BILLING RIGHTS - KEEP THIS NOTICE FOR FUTURE USE.

This notice is required by federal law. In this notice, "you" and "your" mean the Borrower. "We" and "our" refer to the Lender.

This notice contains important information about your rights and our responsibilities under the Fair Credit Billing Act.

Notify Us In Case of Errors or Questions About Your Bill.

If you think your bill is wrong, or if you need more information about a transaction on your bill, write us on a separate sheet at Bill Me Later, P.O. Box 5018, Timonium, MD 21094. Write us as soon as possible. We must hear from you no later than 60 days after we send you the first bill on which the error or problem appeared. You can telephone us, but doing so will not preserve your rights. In your letter, give us the following information:

* Your name and account number.

* The dollar amount of the suspected error.

* Describe the error and explain, if you can, why you believe there is an error. If you need more information, describe the item you are not sure about.

Your Rights and Our Responsibilities After We Receive Your Written Notice.

We must acknowledge your letter within 30 days, unless we have corrected the error by then.

Within 90 days we must either correct the error or explain why we believe the bill was correct.

After we receive your letter, we cannot try to collect any amount you question, or report you as delinquent. We can continue to bill you for the amount you question, including Finance Charges. You do not have to pay any questioned amount while we are investigating, but you are still obligated to pay the parts of your bill that are not in question. If we find that we made a mistake on your bill, you will not have to pay any Finance Charges related to the questioned amount. If we did not make a mistake, you may have to pay Finance Charges, and you will have to make up any missed payments on the questioned amount. In either case, we will send you a statement of the amount you owe and the date that it is due.

If you fail to pay the amount that we think you owe, we may report you as delinquent. However, if our explanation does not satisfy you and you write to us within ten (10) days telling us that you still refuse to pay, we must tell anyone we report you to that you have a question about your bill, and we must tell you the name of anyone we reported you to. We must tell anyone we report you to that the matter has been settled between us when it finally is.

If we do not follow these rules, we cannot collect the first $50.00 of the questioned amount, even if your bill is correct.

This is how you dispute the bill. I would dispute on the grounds of hey, I never received anything that was ordered, and according to the merchants site, the order was allowed to self cancel. You may in the end loose the dispute. Then it would be off to court to have a judge decide. I went through the whole agreement and could not find anything in it about a merchants failure to ship a item and your liability for the debt.

https://www.securecheckout.billmelater.com/paycapture-content/fetch?hash=PD4106KD&content=bmlweb/bmlwebtnc.html

[snowonder]

This applies to the CIT bill me later. I forgot, there is two bill me later services... Which one are you dealing with?

So, you promise to pay if someone orders it, or you order it and it was shipped to your address. I think that is your out. Nothing was ever shipped.

This is how you dispute the bill. I would dispute on the grounds of hey, I never received anything that was ordered, and according to the merchants site, the order was allowed to self cancel. You may in the end loose the dispute. Then it would be off to court to have a judge decide. I went through the whole agreement and could not find anything in it about a merchants failure to ship a item and your liability for the debt.

https://www.securecheckout.billmelater.com/paycapture-content/fetch?hash=PD4106KD&content=bmlweb/bmlwebtnc.html

Thank you so much!!!! I have been a nervous wreck over this! I did send my formal complaint to the Maryland address listed in your post. The problem I'm scared I'll run into is that they'll say that I didn't report it soon enough. BUt, I ordered on 7/6/07, and the ESTIMATED delivery wasn't until 8/14, which came and went. By the time I realized I could "self cancel" the order, it had already been 60 days. UGH, this is driving me crazy, but I do plan on fighting it based on the grounds you posted. And imo (which prolly doesn't amount to much in their eyes), they should have to PROVE that I received the items. The bad part is taht I received NO email order conformation. NOTHING. But I also know there's not a paper trail leading that furniture to my door. Dang, I wish I had read through that site more thoroughly before I sent in my complaint and dispute form, but I'm sure I'll get the opportunity to respond.

Thank you again for your post, and if anyone else has any helpful info, I would love to hear it. You guys are great. I think I'll sleep a LITTLE better tonight knowing that I have SOMETHING to fall back on. It may not be enough, but it's SOMETHING.

[merkurfan]

I would argue that the now defunct merchant is attempting to defraud both you AND BLM. They offered you goods, you accepted, they never produced but made BLM pay them for said goods. BML now wants someone to pay them. Not sure how easy that is going to be with a bankrupt company, so BML I am sure will likely go after you for their $.. Unfortunatly this might get ugly for you as Robert posted earlier.

[jasen]

Obligations aside, I'd be damned before I paid BML a cent in this situation.

I too would attack this from the angle that the retailer defrauded both you and BML and push the obligation back to them. BML can recover the funds they paid to the retailer from their BK account, if anything is left. Unless you agreed to some crazy contract stipulating that you would pay BML regardless of whether or not the products were received. That would pretty much screw you.

[snowonder]

Well, according to the link to the TOS that was linked to in the other post, I should not have to pay them anything. The merchandise was not delivered to me, therefore, according to their terms, I shouldn't be accountable for paying the bill. And if they still want me to pay the bill, they're gonna havae to PROVE it was delivered, and they can't do that.

I'm awaiting a response from them, and if it's anything OTHER than telling me that my account has been taken back to $0.00, I'm going to reply and include their TOS agreement, and highlight #7.

I will definitely keep you guys posted. Thank you so much for the help you've given me.

[snowonder]

Obligations aside, I'd be damned before I paid BML a cent in this situation.

I too would attack this from the angle that the retailer defrauded both you and BML and push the obligation back to them. BML can recover the funds they paid to the retailer from their BK account, if anything is left. Unless you agreed to some crazy contract stipulating that you would pay BML regardless of whether or not the products were received. That would pretty much screw you.

You're right, and heck, if I DID pay them, I'm sure they wouldn't refund my money if they were to get it back from that bunch of frauds I ordered from. So they'd get paid twice, and I'd never know. I'm not giving them anything. 'Cept maybe a hard time, lol.

[snowonder]

I sent in a formal complaint, along with the BML dispute form, on 12/19. It was received on 12/21. I had been checking my BML account online all along, and saw no change. This morning, when I saw that there was still no change, I called their offices in Timonium, MD and left a message for them to call me back. They said that on 1/2, they filed a chargeback to Gately's for the $575.99. I still have $81.00 on there in finance charges, etc., but the guy I talked to, Justin, said he was going to waive those, so my balance will be zero. He said that my online account status should be updated by tomorrow. I already see teh $575.99, but I still show the $81 balance. Hopefully, it will be gone tomorrow. This has not been reported to any credit agencies, thank God. So it looks like it all worked out. Thanks for all your help!

[snowonder]

Well, all good things come to an end. BML, who took off ALL of the charges in January, put them back onto my account on March 27. So again, I called BML and asked why. The rep told me that it was NOT a chargeback. Gately's, that SHAM of a company that is NO LONGER a merchant of BML, is the one that put the charge on my account. So again, I have to file a formal complaint and send it to the Timonium, MD office, which I did. Today, BML sends me a letter saying the charges are valid "because the merchant states that you were beyond the timeframe to receive a refund." WTF is that all about? First of all, they're insinuating that I would cancel an order and AGREE to pay for it, even though I'm cancelling. Second, there WAS no agreement as far as cancelling went. Third of all, even if there WERE, I NEVER RECEIVED THE MERCHANDISE.

So, I got the name and address of the CEO of Bill Me Later and have typed a 5 page letter to him. I will also include all of my documents (copies, of course) pertaining to this matter.

What I want to know is why they didn't come up with this flimsy excuse to start with? Why did they investigate the first time around and find in my favor? Why did it take almost 3 months to come up with an excuse as to how they could still defraud me?

Does anyone here have any suggestions?

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

If they are going to be this difficult to deal with you may not get this resolved outside of a courtroom...the question is, who will take who to court first!

Ultimately, if they won't change their position and you won't change your's then only a judge has the power to decide which position is the correct one.

I think BML is being difficult because they probably "paid" this deadbeat furniture company so they don't want to be out the money...they likely know that they can't go back on the furniture company because they filed BK.

I'm thikning a good attorney could make BML see the light pretty quickly. I'd give your most recent letter some time and then I'd be consulting with an attorney to see what your options might be - BML would have a difficult supporting a position that you owe them money for furniture that was never delivered.

[snowonder]

I want to keep this off of my credit report. My credit is good and the thought of messing it up with FRAUDULENT charges is more than I can take. They are saying that I'm responsible for these charges. Bill Me Later's terms of service say that I agree to pay for merchandise IF they are delivered in my name to my address (which NEVER happened). So they are in violation of their own terms of service!

I don't even know if I should send the letter I've typed to the CEO. I know I need to tone it down a bit. I'll revise it later. But Monday, it will be in the mail.

Is there anything I should or shouldn't say in my letter to the CEO, aside from explaining this ridiculous situation?

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

I want to keep this off of my credit report. My credit is good and the thought of messing it up with FRAUDULENT charges is more than I can take. They are saying that I'm responsible for these charges. Bill Me Later's terms of service say that I agree to pay for merchandise IF they are delivered in my name to my address (which NEVER happened). So they are in violation of their own terms of service!

I don't even know if I should send the letter I've typed to the CEO. I know I need to tone it down a bit. I'll revise it later. But Monday, it will be in the mail.

Is there anything I should or shouldn't say in my letter to the CEO, aside from explaining this ridiculous situation?

I'd keep it short and sweet.

I'd quote their own rule (about the delivery) if you have it in written form and then "calmly" say that since the furnature was never delievered you obviously don't owe then for it.

Then calmly explain that if the erroneous charges are not reversed off your BML account immediately and the reporting to the credit bureaus pulled (if they are reporting) you will be consulting with your attorney to pursue your legal options.

Also be ready to file complaints with the BBB and your state's AG if they don't move quickly to handle this.

[snowonder]

Thank you so very much for your help. Regarding the AG, I'm not sure which AG to complain to. I'm in NC, BMLs dispute center is in MD, and the CEO is in NB. Should I file with all three?

[Ahntara]

"...file with al three?"

Yes, get out the big guns prior to war. You may also want to contact the consumer reporter at your local TV station. They love a good story and often get great results.

[snowonder]

Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. My local CBS station LOVES to get complaints on big-name companies, so they'll love this one for sure. I'm gonna pull out all the stops. I just think it's ridiculous that I have to go to all this trouble, but I guess that's the way it's got to be.

Is there anyone else I should contact? I've never had this problem before, so I want to make sure I make as big of a stink as is humanly possible. So if you can provide me with anything to help me do that, feel free!

[looksbothways]

Have you sent your story in to www.consumerist.com ?

Sometimes a story appearing on there gets a company moving when they weren't prior. Plus, the consumerist sometimes has more ideas of what you can do.