future spouse liable for my debt?

[prettykitty]

every time i take two steps forward, i get pushed 10 steps back.

i'm newly engaged and my fiancée has good credit, and my credit is bad but before today i had low debt amounts. today i get 6 letters from EDD saying i was overpaid $6000 in 2006 and $2000 beginning of this year, and students disqualify. they are asking me to make payment arrangements. this is wrong & i'm appealing. i wanted to get married for the new year and now i'm afraid my fiancé's credit will be ruined.

we will get married in Nevada, but live in Cali. Cali is a community property state does debt acquired prior to marriage ruin the spouses report?

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Don't take this advice as gospel but to the best of my knowledge, a spouse can never be held liable for debts incurred before marriage or for that matter, for any debt (before, during or after a marriage) unless she signes/pledges herself on the debt.

What can happen is that assets in both your names can be taken to satisfy a debt and the "innocent" spouse left out in the cold.

Hopefully, someone who specifically knows CA law will chime in.

[prettykitty]

i found this paragraph excerpt on MSN

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/SuddenlySingle/WhenItPaysToStaySingle.aspx?page=2

Debt is a slightly different matter. That's because in some states, when you marry you also marry your spouse's debt, especially if post-marriage payments come out of a joint account.

"If you have a situation where one partner is heavily in debt, especially if the one in debt has fewer assets, marriage could potentially expose the nondebtor's assets," says Farber.

Where you live also could affect your debt status. In community-property jurisdictions -- Alaska, Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington, Wisconsin or Puerto Rico -- community property includes the earnings of both partners while married, as well as everything purchased with that money. If separate property is commingled with community property during a marriage, it could be viewed as community property. Similarly, all debts incurred during marriage, unless specifically noted as separate, become community-property debts.

[prettykitty]

how can my fiancé marry me and not get stuck with my debt prior to marriage?

it has to be some way not to co-mingle finances, what about being married in a non community property state? any ideas would greatly appreciated..

[prettykitty]

Robert: Don't take this advice as gospel but to the best of my knowledge, a spouse can never be held liable for debts incurred before marriage or for that matter, for any debt (before, during or after a marriage) unless she signes/pledges herself on the debt. (this leaves me a window of hope)

What can happen is that assets in both your names can be taken to satisfy a debt and the "innocent" spouse left out in the cold.

i hope this is true, i plan on fixing & settling all my debt obligations before acquiring any assets. the main reason i started credit repair is because he really wants to buy a home, & now i might be holding him back forever.

[debtorshusband]

(I may be wrong, but I may be right, and what follows might not fit your situation, but...)

First, I don't think your future husband's credit will be ruined just because you get married. His credit rating, and yours, will only be affected to the extent that you begin to apply for, hold, and pay off loans/credit cards jointly.

Second, to the extent that you want to avoid your husband or future community property becoming liable for your debts, you might consider a pre-nuptual agreement to keep possessions, savings accounts, etc, separate. Even in Calilfornia, a community property state, with a properly prepared pre-nup you can elect to hold property separately instead. (See a lawyer)

Finally, if your income is not needed to qualify for a home loan, your husband could apply alone, thus your credit rating won't "drag him down." Then, he could hold sole title to the house. Then, as per the aforementioned pre-nup, the house is not community property and could not be attached by a creditor to pay off your debt. Of course, this route requires a great deal of trust on your part, that at some point he won't take off and leave you penniless.

DH

[flacorps]

Don't take this advice as gospel but to the best of my knowledge, a spouse can never be held liable for ... any debt (before, during or after a marriage) unless she signes/pledges herself on the debt.

No. Spouses can be held liable under the "Doctrine of necessaries" a/k/a the "doctrine of necessities".

Debts for food, clothing, shelter, medical care and the like expose the other spouse.

The same applies with minor children.

[debtorshusband]

No. Spouses can be held liable under the "Doctrine of necessaries" a/k/a the "doctrine of necessities".

Debts for food, clothing, shelter, medical care and the like expose the other spouse.

The same applies with minor children.

Are you sure that doesn't only apply to debts incurred after marriage?

DH

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

No. Spouses can be held liable under the "Doctrine of necessaries" a/k/a the "doctrine of necessities".

Debts for food, clothing, shelter, medical care and the like expose the other spouse.

The same applies with minor children.

Guess that's why I'd never get married and live in a cummunity property state; then again, if I ever get married again she's going to have to have a boat load of money to get me interested so I suppose it woldn't matter that much!

[jasen]

Are you sure that doesn't only apply to debts incurred after marriage?

That was my understanding as well.

Debt incurred previous to the marriage he won't be held liable for, nor will it affect his credit in any way.

Just be sure to keep separate bank accounts, do not put your name on the house title, or any other major shared assets.

Although, in these stupid community property states, I guess who's named on the title is irrelevant. I think they can still come after your husband's home in a lawsuit, just because he's married to you. The home is automatically half yours, therefore a target. They can't do that in my state though.

I'd consider just prolonging the engagement until the debts are satisfied, abated, or otherwise resolved, just to be safe and avoid complications. It doesn't matter which state you get married in, but the state you live in.

[prettykitty]

this is overwhelming, i really don't want to postpone my marriage, it may take a couple of years of payment arrangements to satisfy this debt. he knows i'm working on my credit, but i'm not sure if he knows it can taint his or how he might react to that. i think i'm gonna really look into the prenup.

[Amerikaner83]

Long story short:

It seems (and i am of this opinion) that YOUR debts BEFORE marriage do NOT affect him in any credit-related way,. NOr do they make him responsible for paying them.

Debts that you both occur after you say "i do" are BOTH of yours. (let's assume you live in community property state)

[isislc]

Long story short:

It seems (and i am of this opinion) that YOUR debts BEFORE marriage do NOT affect him in any credit-related way,. NOr do they make him responsible for paying them.

Debts that you both occur after you say "i do" are BOTH of yours. (let's assume you live in community property state)

I would have to differ. Now that my mom passed away, although her debts before they were married are NOT on his report, he is responsible for paying them now. Wisconsin is a community property state. The debts, if left unpaid, do have the potential of eventually showing on his report though. He has to file BK because of it, just waiting for the last of the medical bills her inherited from her before he does.

[Amerikaner83]

that becomes a matter of state law regarding estates, does it not?

[isislc]

that becomes a matter of state law regarding estates, does it not?

That's what it seems like although it is unfair.

[Amerikaner83]

indeed. BS - IMHO

[Rick9972]

No. Spouses can be held liable under the "Doctrine of necessaries" a/k/a the "doctrine of necessities".

Debts for food, clothing, shelter, medical care and the like expose the other spouse.

The same applies with minor children.

Been doing alot of research on this and some very interesting things have came up:

404.040 Liability of husband for wife's debts.

The husband shall not be liable for any debt or responsibility of the wife contracted or incurred before or after marriage, except to the amount or value of the property he received from or by her by virtue of the marriage; but he shall be liable for necessaries furnished to her after marriage.

Effective: October 1, 1942

History: Recodified 1942 Ky. Acts ch. 208, sec. 1, effective October 1, 1942, from Ky.

Stat. sec. 2130.

NOw according to my reading 9 states have codified the "Doctrine of Necessaries" into STate Law. Kentucky and Florida are two of them.

Now the truly interesting thing is that this obligation is only for a husband in both states. Numerous court cases (especially in Florida) have held that the wife has no obligation for a husband's necessaries. Thou the inequity of the situation has been mentioned several times by the courts, the bottom line is that the repair is a legislative matter.

[prettykitty]

we/he has decided to hold off on the wedding until the end of the year if i'm not married by the end of the year i'm moving to Texas, a place where i can be single and afford my debt & rent, with money left over for food.

[prettykitty]

thanx Nascar! i'm really considering tx i know 3 ppl who have moved there already & love it.

[CleverCynic]

We (men) rarely respond well to ultimatums. I hope you haven't said that out loud.

[Debt Guy]

PK

First, congratulations and best wishes for health and happiness.

As to your query regarding debts a spouse brings to a marriage in a community property state -- the other spouse is not responsible.

Now, that being said, there are factors that complicate and confuse the matter.

One is the situation Isis is facing with a surviving parent. Without more details, my suspicion is that it is not a community property issue that is the problem but rather is state law regarding liquidation of assets to pay the debts of the deceased. For example, if Party A has pre-marriage debts and Party A and Party B jointly own marital assets -- when Party A dies the pre-marriage debt creditor has a claim on the assets of Party A to be paid -- including those assets jointly owned. It is probable that Party B must sell assets (or use their own cash) to satisfy the creditors. While this is kinda convoluted, it can appear that Party B is liable for the pre-marriage debts of Party A when it is really not the case. It it is otherwise, I encourage Isis to consult a competent local attorney because anything contrary flies in the face of all the law I know (a fair amount for a layman but nothing specific for WI).

Another is a situation that results from lousy record keeping. In the event of creditor lawsuits, or even a divorce, things can get messy. Creditors, as you may expect in a community property state, sometimes take the view "sue em all and let the court sort it out". Good clean records go a long way to putting a stake in the heart of those problems. I don't know that a "pre-nup" is necessary but a simple listing of pre-marriage debts of both parties and signed before you marry (a notary would be cool to prove it was not back-dated) would in my mind be convincing to a judge.

Another twist that gets people confused is the doctrine of necessaries. This rule of law dates back to 13th century English common law in the days when women had no rights to own property. Well, if you can't own property you certainly cannot bind yourself to pay a debt. So, the doctrine of necessaries was born in the notion that a wife could go to the market and buy food and the husband would be legally bound to pay the debt even if he knew nothing of the transaction because the food was "necessary to sustain life". The doctrine of necessaries in a modern context is codified in the statues of every state I know except LA to say that both spouses are responsible for medical bills and utility bills (and I guess grocery bills to the extent you can today buy such on credit) of the entire family. So, the doctrine of necessaries has little to do with community property and nothing to do with pre-marriage debts but tends to get tangled in the explanation. While I think it is a stretch legally, I have seen both spouses sued over the pre-marriage debt of one spouse if the debt met the definition of a necessary. In my experience, those events are quite rare and would truly result in the need for the judge to put on his thinkin' cap. The few I have seen the judge has dismissed the "innocent spouse". But, you and I both know it is a crapshoot anytime you get in front of judge or jury.

What I am giving you is from my 35 years of banking, financial services and financial consulting practice. I am not an attorney but I've hired so many over the years that inevitably some rubs off. If you want an absolute definitive answer you will have to research CA law or hire a CA consumer attorney for an opinion letter.

Personally, I think that is not necessary. I think you will be just fine.

Hope you goat is still live and well.

DG

[prettykitty]

& Happy New Year

WOW DG! thanks for chiming in! i'm sure your right, but researching this credit info to convince him is a pain. it's turning more into a personal situation vs. credit at this point.

thanks for all your help & my goat is MAINTAINING

[prettykitty]

clevcync: We (men) rarely respond well to ultimatums. I hope you haven't said that out loud.

i'm wearing a t-shirt that says "LOVE ME LOVE MY DEBT"!

[J_Snow]

PK

First, congratulations and best wishes for health and happiness.

As to your query regarding debts a spouse brings to a marriage in a community property state -- the other spouse is not responsible.

Now, that being said, there are factors that complicate and confuse the matter....

{snipped}

Personally, I think that is not necessary. I think you will be just fine.

Hope you goat is still live and well.

DG

Thanks DG! Nice post

And to PK... 1. GOOD JOB for being HONEST with each other about your situations. and

2. If he won't marry you for who you are... good riddance!

[prettykitty]

very very true J. Snow...

it's a rocky road but i'm hoping to get through this:smile: