Mann Bracken is back to haunt me - need help

[bubbaboo]

Me, txtrouble, and a lot of others here have gotten recent correspondence from Mann Bracken which looks like they are getting active again.

Background: I had a chargeoff in January, 2007 for about $8,000. Last payment was December, 2006. I had been consistently late for about four years and they finally gave up on me. The OC sent it to a CA who wrote me a demand letter. I sent them a DV, and they gave me a very minimal reply. Then they sent it to Mann Bracken, the collection agency, "law firm" in Atlanta. The OC stills owns the debt.

Mann Bracken sent me a letter in October and I sent them a DV on about the 20th of October. Their initial letter said that I had agreed to arbitration with the OC. In my DV letter to them, I denied agreeing to arbitration and asked for proof that I had agreed to arbitration. I just got a letter back from them which was an attempt at validation. The cover letter said it was being handled by their arbitration department. On the third page of the correspondence, they say that I could incur attorney fees and other costs, but that would be at the arbitrators discretion. They did not include anything that showed I had agreed to arbitration.

It is clear to me that they intend to pursue this through arbitration even though I denied having signed any agreement to arbitrate disputes. I originally signed up for this account in 1999 with Bank A. While it was still with them, I got behind and they closed the account, but I continued paying a little each month for about five years. After the account was closed, Bank A was purchased by Bank B and I sent the payments to them. Eventually, Bank B was purchased by Bank C who is now the creditor. They are the ones who charged it off. When the account was with Bank B and Bank C, it was always a closed account.

Here is where I am going with this. It is my understanding that I can agree to arbitration in two ways. First, agree to the arbitration agreement when I open the account. I opened the account when arbitration agreements were not yet common and it is doubtful I agreed to it at that time. Second, agree to it when the company sends me a letter saying they are amending the original agreement to provide for arbitration, and by using the card any time after I receive the letter, I am agreeing to arbitration.

Here is why that is important. All of the correspondence I have received from either of the two collection agencies lists Bank C as the original creditor. The first collection agency actually sent me a credit card agreement they say I agreed to with Bank B, but that agreement says nothing about arbitration. I am pretty sure neither CA knows I opened the account with Bank A and it was closed by them before Bank B ever got the account. So any arbitration agreement would have to be with Bank A.

So, here is what I am looking for:

First, I want to stop Mann Bracken from even thinking they can get away with sending this through arbitration. I do not want to fight this out in arbitration because that is a difficult, probably losing situation. What do I do to make it clear to them that I am not falling for their argument that I agreed to arbitration?

Second, is there a way I can trick them into sending me an arbitration agreement from Bank C (or Bank and saying that is the one I agreed to?

I need to send them something soon and am looking for any help, especially with the wording of the letter.

Of interest, Mann Bracken is well known for sending cases to arbitration without notifying the debtor. In my initial letter to them, which I sent CMRRR, I used my current address. They sent their response to an old address they had on file, not my current address. From the dates on their response it appears it took a month to get to me. So I don't think it is out of the question for them to try to notify me of arbitration at my old address.

For what it is worth, they sent me an affidavit from the creditor who charged it off saying that Mann Bracken is authorized to represent them and what the original balance is. I really don't mind paying something on this, but over half is interest and fees, and I already paid on it for four or five years (at least $3,000 paid on an account that had a credit limit of $3,000).

Thanks

[astiman]

You said:

"I really don't mind paying something on this,"

If you truly want to pay mann bracken for this, then by all means do it.

Of course, they didn't ever extend credit to you, and it won't help your score in any way,you can do it if you want.

Me, I just don't pay CAs and JDBs I dont owe money to....

But that's just MY opinion.

[bubbaboo]

I understand your position, but the OC will not deal with me and told me to deal with Mann Bracken. MB is collecting for the OC, they did not buy the debt.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Astiman,

Having an arbitration and/or a court judgment won't help his scores much either do you think?

A policy of "I don't pay CA's or JDB's you don't owe money to" may work for you other people in many situations, but usually only if the debt is small and/or past SOL; the problem is the OP has already acknowledged, at least indirectly, that the debt is (or at least was) owed (allbeit mostly interest and fees, etc) and such a ploicy will not stop a creditor from going to arbitration and/or to court and winning a judgment.

OP,

If you have really good records or you can assemble really good records to prove you never agreed to arbritation then you may be able to avoid it. Certainly, the fact that Bank A bought our Bank B, etc doesn't obligate you to anything more than you've agreed to be obligated to.

Keep in mind that avoiding arbritration doesn't avoid court if they decide to pursue it that way so if you do owe the debt you are probably going to have to work out a settlement amount with them.

[bubbaboo]

Robert: Thanks for the post. How do I get the CA to not file for arbitration? Since they did not send me any arbitration agreement, I suspect they don't have one. Especially since the first CA did send me an agreement that did not even mention arbitration. I want to send them something that makes it very clear that I know they are bluffing and they need to play fair. I don't mind going to court if it comes to that. I just don't want to get screwed over by a funky arbitration hearing. And, when I visited court, this CA had over half the cases on the docket and they settled all of them that did not default. So even if I get a discount on the total amount I will be happy. I do owe the debt and it is a recent chargeoff.

On the other hand, I previously had two accounts with this CA that they let go beyond the SOL (same creditor as this time). And I currently have another one with them (different creditor) that they have ignored for a very long time. My experience with them is that when you fight back, they fold.

So what do I say in my letter to them?

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

If they are intent on doing so there is little (outside of a JRO) to prevent them from pursuing arbitration against you whether you agreed to it or not; just as there is little you can do to stop someone from sueing you even if you are totally in the wright and the plaintiff is totally in the wrong.

All you can do is show up and present your evidence - if you are absolutely certain you did not agree (actively or passively) to arbitration then you should do Ok (although this so-called arbitration is pretty much a joke as they almost alwasy find in favor of the CC company). Understand that even with an arbitration award, they still have to go to court to get a judgment if you won't pay.

As to a letter, I would keep it simple, short and to the point; don't quote a lot of rules and section numbers, etc.

Before you write anyting, however, spend some time searching the internet for sample letters regarding arbitration and take the best ideas from them.

One more throught; the above is based on my assumption that you KNOW you didn't agree to arbitration (not just that you don't remember or are trying to make them prove you did and hope they can't)...if you think you might have but either don't remember or hope they can't prove it, then I wouldn't count on your position holding up.

[txtrouble]

The MO for me w/ MB is exactly what Bubbaboo experienced. My CC was charged off in January of 2007, it was referred to a CA, I DV'ed them, they disappeared. MB calls me in July and sent the dunning within 5 days. I responded with a DV request, they stopped calling and sent a letter that they were getting it together. They replied back in Sept/Oct timeframe with a 3 page letter that was basically a signed, notorized statement from a representative from the OC with the stated balance. They called one time in early December/late November. Then they sent the past year's worth of CC statements along with a letter. Didn't really threaten anything, just said here is the requested info and we'd like to hear from you.

Previously, they did say arbitration would be an option and like Bubbaboo my DV request included a request of proof i agreed to arbitration. Unlike Bubbaboo, I am not 100% certain that I didn't agree, I don't remember agreeing. I hadn't used the card in years, just made payments, so if they sent in the mail saying that if i use the card again, then I would be agreeing to arbitration, it wouldn't apply to me. Again, I never recall seeing this either.

I think they must be getting their process down. From what I've researched, previously MB would back off once they got a DV. Doesn't appear to be that way anymore. From what I understand they are arbitration machines. So this thread will be of great interest to me. I want to find a way to take care of it but don't know how since I don't have the cash. Keep us posted Bubbaboo and I'll do likewise

[txtrouble]

I just checked out Budd Hibbs site and on the main page, he has an alert for Mann Bracken filing bogus arbitration claims for Chase. Doesn't sound too good. Not sure why they are bogus though, he just says to email him.

[bubbaboo]

txtrouble: I knew you would eventually see this and comment. I have been following your posts on this issue.

I did see the Bud Hibbs post. I emailed him and the reply said to not sign for any Fed EX or USPS envelopes from MB. Apparently when they send you the arbitration notice they ask for your signature.

I agree with you that they seem to be getting their arbitration business together and we should expect to see a lot more of it. I have had good success in the past just doing a DV. It made them disappear. Like many other CA's, they just sent it to another CA when they got my DV. I don't think that will happen this time.

By the way, this is on my Chase account. They still have not done anything on my Citi account DV that I sent them in the summer.

[txtrouble]

Hey bubbaboo, yeah Bud sd the same thing as well. Must be a Chase thing like Hibbs talks about his site, chase and MB getting the arb game on. Interestingly, I wonder if the subprime mess is playing a role in it. I read an article a few years back after the dot com bomb and it talked about how much more litigious it is during economic recessions than it is during the good times (not credit related necessarily). They talked about things that would go on during booms that brought no lawsuits but during bad times, same things, even less severe, brought on the lawyers. Just curious if Chase is getting hit with the subprime stuff, I'm sure they are, and maybe this is part of the fallout. So maybe they are looking for any penny they can get to pad the balance sheet (not sure how collectiosn on a charged off accoutn work in accounting terms, I know they have to claim it, so I'm sure it goes on the current balance sheet rather then them having to re-instate previous earnings) and that's why they are being much more aggressive. i guess it doesn't make a difference to us, it just matters that they seem to be much more aggressive then they were a year ago.

Bud mentioned them filing bogus arb claims, don't know what that means really. I wonder if it means them proceeding without serving. Doesn't look pretty though! Just as an aside, I've been paranoid about any certified mail that comes, and almost as a cosmic joke, I've received MORE certified mail (or things I had to sign for) in the past 6 months than I have in the past 6 years!! Everytime I thought it was the notice. Luckily its all been unrelated.

[bubbaboo]

I have done a lot of research on Mann Bracken because I have so many chargeoffs end up with them. They have a very bad reputation for proceeding to arbitration without notifying the debtor. I guess they found it easier to win when the other side does not show up. Or, maybe they are so bad that they can't win if the other side does show up. I suspect they got their hands slapped for this and now are making an effort to actually serve the other side.

All I can do is wait.

[txtrouble]

If a CA can't win in arbitration following the rules, man, they must have no skill or zero case! haha. The way I understand NAF to be, if i were a CA, i'd be following all the rules, seems liek they can't lose. I do think you are on to something though about them playing more by the rules. If you look at posts here (and maybe you've experienced it), MB used to violate the law all the time. With me, they haven't been like that. They prob. found that they are just as successful, if not more, just using the system and treading the line.