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Dave Ramsey--The Way to Go ! ! !

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I'm still blown away by the 401k thing. Last year I contributed so much that I actually ended up with a tax refund for the first time in years.

I wonder what Suze thinks of Dave. xpopcornx

I agree with you and SB. I'd never skip paying money into my 401K. Though since I work for the state, it's another section. I've been paying in, come hell or high water, for the past 15 years. My big joke to my family is that I'm worth way more dead than alive (until I hit 60 that's the only way the money can be accessed).

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Ha ya' stinking drunk!....

Just kidding ;). But heck dude, we all do stupid things in life. Welcome to the club! Thankfully, this financial stuff is reversible.

-r

Actually never drank much to begin with and was simply coming home from a Skins game. It takes so little anymore, but they had me dead to rights.

Have not had a drop since that date though.

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His thought on that is 'Would you borrow money from the bank to invest in the stock market?'

If the answer is no, then you should not be investing in your 401k and should instead be paying off your credit cards.

That is such an invalid comparison though.

Stocks are an after-tax purchase which can be costly if you're not in it for the long term since you pay transaction fees, capital gains, etc if you sell (and doesn't he hate stocks because you're investing in one company? He likes mixed funds, no?).

A 401k is a pre-tax, in most cases with a company match (which is significant), retirement plan investment. You save tax money, you get additional money from your employer, it's protected, you can borrow from it if you need to, etc.

They are in no ways similar.

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These knee-jerk criticisms of Dave Ramsey are getting real old real fast.

If you are going to criticize the man then fine, criticize but you might at least make an attempt to understand the whole concept being criticized before you jump in. I mean, it’s not as if the man is hiding his concepts/opinions from anyone; they are available (for free) in a variety of places and formats; why not just go look into them if you want to know what they are?

If you are just looking for ideas to criticize I’m sure there are more deserving ideas (the BCS leaps to mind).

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But, just to clear a few things up, one other thing about 401k that Dave says, is that if it's going to take you 20 years to get out of debt then you should still contribute to your 401k.

The whole reason he tells you to stop investing is so you can attack your debt with every bit of money you can, for the average person, that will take about 2 to 2 1/2 years (if you fall into this category, then Dave would recommend you to stop investing till later) Then once all your debts are paid off stack up your 6 month emergency fund, once that is complete, then he tells you to invest 15% of your income to retirement.

In his books he breaks down the math and shows how a person at age 25 with an average income of $40K a year can have almost $6M saved up by retirement age. The guy's motto is "Live like no one else so later you can live like no one else." So basically, you're right guys, who can live off half their earnings of $40K a year for a few years? Who would drive a old beat up car and shop at the thrift store for 10 years of their life when in actuality they don't have to? Not many people would. Who would have $6M to retire off of whenever they feel like retiring? Not many people will.

One thing I would also like to clear up is the only debt that Dave is Ok with having is a mortgage. And if you have a mortgage and you pay it on time and are never late, I'm sure you will have halfway decent credit for your car insurance.

One thing I would like to know is if any of you guys who are talking down on Dave have more money than he does?

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These knee-jerk criticisms of Dave Ramsey are getting real old real fast.

If you are going to criticize the man then fine, criticize but you might at least make an attempt to understand the whole concept being criticized before you jump in. I mean, it’s not as if the man is hiding his concepts/opinions from anyone; they are available (for free) in a variety of places and formats; why not just go look into them if you want to know what they are?

If you are just looking for ideas to criticize I’m sure there are more deserving ideas (the BCS leaps to mind).

Why would I be looking to criticize just to criticize? I'm not quite that bitter and old (yet). As previously stated, I agree with Ramsey on certain points and disagree with him on others. I don't believe that it is wise to rob your retirement fund to pay off debt. It's that same short-term thinking that's gotten many people in over their heads in the first place. I would hardly consider my reasoning to be "knee-jerk".

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He doesn’t in any way recommend that people rob their retirement savings to pay off debt – he also very much tailors his advice to the situation of the person asking the questions (where they are financially, income, age, health, married, kids at home, etc., etc.).

That’s what I mean when I say that people are criticizing without understanding what he has really said.

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One thing I would like to know is if any of you guys who are talking down on Dave have more money than he does?

That's not a valid counterargument.

I am strongly opposed to beating children senseless despite not yet having any of my own. I also disagree with the way Ken Lay operated Enron, though I've never been a CEO of a public company. And I'm not convinced that Michigan's governor has the made best choices when it comes to our state's economy, yet I've never held public office.

I don't have to be in someone's exact shoes to be able to weigh the pros and cons of their decisions or advice.

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One thing I would like to know is if any of you guys who are talking down on Dave have more money than he does?

I'm glad you asked that question insted of me. :)

Of course they don’t.

Dave is probably in the top 0.5 percentile (net worth) in this country and he did it in about 10 years after loosing everything he had and he did it without borrowing money from anyone for anything using the principles he teaches.

People don’t like to hear that because the concept of obtaining wealth without either doing something illegal, immoral or using debt is simply not part of most people’s framework today (even if such ws the norm a few decades ago).

The amazing thing to me is that most people, me included, come to boards like this because they either are having or have had problems (usually major problems) with money/credit/debt and most of the time (not all – I’m not trying to beat up on anyone here) those financial problems could have been avoided or at least significantly mitigated. Still, however, many think that the way they handle money/credit/debt is the way that works no matter what the evidence to the contrary might be.

What’s the old axiom…don’t take alligator wrestling advice from an alligator wrestler who’s missing an arm!

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I don't personally have any experience with Dave, but concerning the 401K, I think it would be a mistake to not at least go for the employer match part of the scale. Mine is 6% match, and I can't imagine why I would not want to have that much contributed to my 401K, tax free.

I don't think anyone wants or needs dept, and where possible you really should avoid it, but credit, good, bad or indifferent is a neccesary evil in this world. I think that everyone here is likely here because of that fact. Not Robert who is trying to work the scale backwards and certainly his right to do so.:)

And last.....pointing to someones wealth is not an automatic criteria for me to believe their way is the best way. Osama Bin Laden is wealthy and frankly not at all interested in his money gathering techniques. There are many self made billionaires that are international arms dealers that have been directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of countless thousands, so that isn't neccesarily for me either.

Bottom line, is make your own decisions about your own lives. Listen to everyone, but listen to yourself last and do what's right for you. If you like Dave, great, and if you don't turn the channel.

Isn't this country great that way?

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What it comes down to is, no matter what happens or how it happens it is up to you. I don't think any person that does not already have money or someone is willing to let them stay with or let them have a house free of cost is going to beable to make it the Dave Ramsey way.

It is impractable to say (no matter what age you are) live on half your earnings for "this many years" and you'll be out of debt and living the good life. Does that even make any sence? Not in the world of working people. Do people live beyond there means...yes they do.

Lets not forget that Dave has been through a bankruptsy,

***One of Ramsey's largest investors was sold to a larger bank, who began to take a harder look at Ramsey's borrowing habits. The bank demanded he pay $1.2 million worth of short-term notes within 90 days, forcing him to file bankruptcy.***

He started off the same way we did, and now are correcting it. Unlike us he STILL had backing, nobody on this board can tell me he done it all by himself. A quick internet search can confirm that.

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Well, I will confess knowing nothing about Dave Ramsey. I do know people who live without credit. However, they happen to have experienced the depression, came of age during WWII, bought a track house for $1800, paid it off in the sixties and it is now worth 1.8 million. Different era, different mindset, and hey, what I am paying into SS is going in their pockets and it probably won't be there when I retire! A life without credit sounds great. In reality, I will probably never achieve the state of a Ramseyian.

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Ok I'll contribute a bit...

I think Dave gives some good advice, but like advice it's not meant for everyone...he has some good points about debt and how we view money...

With that said...I have 750,000.00 in assets without ever having an mortgage and I had no credit till a few months ago when I started my repair.

I got there wisely managing my money and making wise investment choices. I never had thousands in debt and still don't use most of my credit and cards. I learned to live on what we made, we paid cash for everything...drove junker cars...bought in thrift shops, went without alot of stuff...

I know I paid more for everything...my insurance dropped 20.00 a month when I renewed last month, because my credit is better.

I am reaping the benefits now...if I had credit before now I would have been foolish and wasted it on junk.

Now my assets are assets and not a uninsured weight around my neck...now may car is a nice used Cadilliac...no plans to get another.

I agree we are an excessive society...we are trained to spend more than we make...and made to believe the best is new and the most expensive. I teach my children better and I think Money management needs to be taught in school.

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Well, I will confess knowing nothing about Dave Ramsey. I do know people who live without credit. However, they happen to have experienced the depression, came of age during WWII, bought a track house for $1800, paid it off in the sixties and it is now worth 1.8 million. Different era, different mindset, and hey, what I am paying into SS is going in their pockets and it probably won't be there when I retire! A life without credit sounds great. In reality, I will probably never achieve the state of a Ramseyian.

I absolutely agree...you won't

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Ok I'll contribute a bit...

I think Dave gives some good advice, but like advice it's not meant for everyone...he has some good points about debt and how we view money...

With that said...I have 750,000.00 in assets without ever having an mortgage and I had no credit till a few months ago when I started my repair.

I got there wisely managing my money and making wise investment choices. I never had thousands in debt and still don't use most of my credit and cards. I learned to live on what we made, we paid cash for everything...drove junker cars...bought in thrift shops, went without alot of stuff...

I know I paid more for everything...my insurance dropped 20.00 a month when I renewed last month, because my credit is better.

I am reaping the benefits now...if I had credit before now I would have been foolish and wasted it on junk.

Now my assets are assets and not a uninsured weight around my neck...now may car is a nice used Cadilliac...no plans to get another.

I agree we are an excessive society...we are trained to spend more than we make...and made to believe the best is new and the most expensive. I teach my children better and I think Money management needs to be taught in school.

Wow are YOU odd...you must be a collector!

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I spent the pre new years eve hours checking out Dave on tv...its was over i flipped the channel and there was Suze Orman telling me the opposite for the next hour of what Dave just spent the previous hour telling me...boy what a way to start the new year totally confused...and to think NEW YEARS EVE and CONFUSION WITHOUT CONSUMPTION OF AN ALCOHOL BEVERAGE!! Now thats a credit junkie for ya..

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O.K. everyone, it's obvious that Robert thinks he is better than us. Nobody will ever change his mind on this Dave Ramsey thing.

He is irratted at us becasue we will not listen to him. Look at his last 2 posts, he is degrading people becasue he can. He only answers questions that he knows he can win and will not answer anything else. Just go back through this thread and look.

Either way, just let Robert be. He thinks he's above us so lets continue to let him think that.

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O.K. everyone, it's obvious that Robert thinks he is better than us. Nobody will ever change his mind on this Dave Ramsey thing.

He is irratted at us becasue we will not listen to him. Look at his last 2 posts, he is degrading people becasue he can. He only answers questions that he knows he can win and will not answer anything else. Just go back through this thread and look.

Either way, just let Robert be. He thinks he's above us so lets continue to let him think that.

Sorry, Chucksnee.

If you are referring to this post:

…..

It was a JOKE…guess I wasn’t clear on that.

If you are referring to this post:

….

Then it should be obvious - anyone who is convinced that they CAN’T do something absolutely NEVER will do it and that is absolutely correct whether the “something” is living without credit/debt or anything else in life.

That is not degrading anyone; it’s simply the truth.

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Thanks Chuckie-Actually, it is not so degrading....I have to admit I was being sarcastic which is something Robert failed to comprehend. If I had a net worth of $10 million I wouldn't buy into this. Wonder if there is a finder fee for referring people to the Ramsey website who end up buying this product? Basically this is all it is, not unlike any credit repair company out there. I think it costs $8.95 a month, which is a better deal than most. Although the advice he spews you can receive for free :D

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In my experience there are two very differing view points on Dave Ramsey. To each their own. If you would like to express your opinion in an adult, calm manner... great!

If not... I think it would be a good idea to keep your opinions to yourself until you are able to do so.

I personally do not believe everything Dave says, but I have heard that people have had some success in his way of thinking. soo.. to each their own.

Lets calm this thread down a bit folks :)

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