rocky12 Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 We have around 90,000 in cc debt - 3 accts with Bank of America - 1 with Am Exp., 2 with Chase, 1 with advanta, and 1 that is not overdue with Discover. Am Exp. has already threatened to sure - But all are still with original creditor. We are trying to work out repayment plans with all and trying to figure out how much we can afford to pay (I am looking for a job - husband is emplyed with steady income). How do I know when to give up and file for BK though? I read about people's bank acct.'s getting frozen - At what point do we give in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadynRed Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 First of all, no one can freeze your bank account until after they sue you and win a judgment against you. I gotta tell you, AmEx will not deal, if you can get a settlement out of them at all I'd be really surprised.With 90K in credit card debt, I'd say it's already too late. Even with settlements, unless you've got a LOT of cash up front to pay them, you're not going to get very far, most of them won't take less than 60%. The repayment plans will just prolong the agony of that amount of debt, you'll be paying until you're in your grave.When do you give up ? That's a tough question, as everybody has their limits on how much they can endure. If you have 2 incomes, will you be able to throw a LOT of money at these accounts ? Are you ready to live on a VERY strict budget to pay these down ? Do you own your home ? Do you have vehicles that are financed ? How much are the rest of your expenses and are you charging everyday expenses on credit cards ??These are some of the questions you have to ask yourself. Even if you file Ch 13, you'll likely pay far less over a 5 year plan than what you can negotiate for settlements on 90K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky12 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 OK - that makes me feel better that nobody can freeze my bank acct. without me knowing it first. We are at a point now where we are paying ALL of our living expenses from my husbands pay. We have no open lines of credit. And we do have money left over and I am looking for a job so yes we could pay a large amt. each month to the cc's. But our credit it going to be ruined anyway so why wouldn't we like BK IF and that is a big IF, it means we can do it and keep our house. So I guess we will talk to a lawyer next week. I don't want to do that - But the stress of spending hours each day trying to crunch #'s and figure it all out is more than I can take much longer. I really hope we can find a good lawyer b/c it is going to be pretty complicated b/c my husband was self-employed for the last 3 years so it will be hard to figure his earnings from the company. We need to file BK for the company as well but it is an LLC so from what I understand it will be a seperate deal altogether. Do you know if you can keep your house under Ch 7 if it has very little equity in it? I thought you had to give up EVERYTHING. Are there any good websites that I can look at over the weekend that explain BK7 and BK13. i am so glad I found this site. We have been living in a bubble and feeling like we are the only ones going through this and like we'll never get out. Just reading other people's stories and advice make me have hope regardless of what we decide. I am have already gotten a lot of great advice from other's posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadynRed Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Do you know if you can keep your house under Ch 7 if it has very little equity in it? I thought you had to give up EVERYTHING.That is a common misconception that creditors just love to propagate. Most Ch 7 filers lose NOTHING, not even their homes, and not even under the new law. Ch 7 is not meant to take everything you have and leave you destitute. There are exemptions in every state that allow you to keep certain amounts of property. The kicker on a house is the equity. If you have a LOT of equity over the exemption amount, then the house is vulnerable to the Trustee taking the house and selling it to pay your creditors. If you have little to no equity, then all you do is reaffirm the mortgage and as long as you stay current you're fine, you keep your house.feeling like we are the only ones going through this and like we'll never get out. Not unusual but you are not at all alone in this. The projections are headed upwards again for bankruptcies and they expect it to be to the Million mark this year. With the mortgage meltdown and the huge number of foreclosures, the number of bankruptcies could very well get close to pre-bk reform levels.But our credit it going to be ruined anyway so why wouldn't we like BK IF and that is a big IF, it means we can do it and keep our house.Chances are you'll keep your house The fact is, it's much easier to recover your financial life after filing bankruptcy than it is to struggle for years trying to pay debts as you describe -you can never bail fast enough. Even if you had a 5 year Ch 13, you'd still recover faster and most likely pay far less to creditors. BK also gives you protection from lawsuits and collections, so it definitely has the effect of relieving some stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky12 Posted January 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Yes the stress is definitely killing us. I just want to get back to raising my kids and focusing on something other than bills. If we can get a fresh start I know we will not make the same mistakes again that got us here. I am feeling optimistic that a BK7 may be an option and our best bet but as you said even BK13 would be better than the enormous payments we'd have on a repay plan with the cc's - plus we'd still be dealing with THEM. We have almost no equity in the house b/c the business loan we took out is secured by the house - and the resale values in our are are trashed b/c of so many foreclosures. I got a list of lawyers from a CCCS site that I am going to call on Monday and see what our options wil be. One more question for - Should we have to pay the lawyer up front? And will we be able to keep any credit cards - I sure do not want one but my husband travels for his job and to keep his job he is going to have to have a credit card to travel - There is no way we can afford to pay his travel expenses and wait to be reimbursed by his job - He gets paid back pretty quick so we'd be paying the full balance off each month - That is one concern about BK? Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky12 Posted January 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 I know these will be questions for an attorney when we get one - but for now I am feeling very anxious about some things I just read. just remembered taht my husbands name is listed on a title to some property that my mother in law owns (still living). She added his name I guess to make sure it went straight to him? Anyway - what will happen with that if we file BK? It is worth maybe 100K - It is in 3 names - we dont pay taxes on it or use it but his name is there. Also - We cashed out an IRA left to my husband by his father who died for home improvements - 6 months ago. Is that going to affect anything? I just got scared reading about what not do do and cashing out funds was one of those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willingtocope Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Sounds like your finances are complicated enough that you're really going to need professional advices.The fact that you MAY have equity in the other home MAY be a problem. The fact that you withdrew money 6 months ago MAY be a problem.You do have to pay the lawyer BEFORE you file, but most will give you a free consulation to help you figure out where you stand.You will certainly loose your existing credit cards. You may be able to open a secured card within weeks of filing BK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeVe Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Also, if your husbands business card is an Amex, you will lose the account and never again be able to have any type of Amex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky12 Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 It does not have to be an Am Ex account - It was not a business account anyway. he just needs a line of credit of about 1k to 2K to cover flights etc. each month. The property his name is on is just property his mom bought and for some reason put his name on. So maybe we could just have her take his name off - it doesn't seem the whole family would have to sell it b/c we go BK. Couldn't he just give up his part if he is not benefitting financially.? I am wondering if a BK attorney is going to know the answers to all this. And with the matter of us cashing out the IRA from his dad - Every cent of it went into our home and we can prove that so there is nothing to recover from that except the house which still does not have enough equity to matter. Yikes - the more I read the more complicated our situation seems. Hopefully we'll get an appt. with an attorney and figure out mroe next week - if anyone out there can answer any of my concerns I would appreciate it for peace of mind b/c I am kind of obsessing on it I know. Thanks for all th e input so far! Does someone actually come to your home to see how much stuff you have or do you just make a list and they believe it? We have nothing of any value seriously - I just wondered if someone would be coming and searching our house. I am so clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willingtocope Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 No, no one will come to your house. You and your attorney will prepare the schedules. If you do try to hide something, and the BK trustee suspect you may be less than honest...THEN...MAYBE...he will investigate throughly, but, if you are honest with your attorney, he'll tell you what to do.And, yes, BK attornies know the law...they'll help you through it. The reason you want to talk to a couple is to find one you can talk to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky12 Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 thanks for the melon analogy with the lawyers - That makes sense and is what I will spend my time doing Mondya morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadynRed Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 So maybe we could just have her take his name offNO ! At this point that action would be seen as a fraudulent conveyance, a move to put assets out of the reach of the Trustee. Best to just leave it alone. Get an assessment of the value of the property and figure out what his 1/3 would amount to. The Trustee could force the sale of the property even with 2 other people's names on it, so you need a lawyer to help on this one. If you file Ch 13, that property would be much less of a problem then in a Ch 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky12 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 well I talked to several lawyers today and found one that I like alot. But I am afraid I like him b/c he SAYS he can do what we want. I talked to others who said different things though. I am not sure who to believe. One said now way we could do 7 with our name on property (we've determined his third would be worth maybe 20k at most) this other guy says the trustee would take into consideration that his mom bought the property and paid cash for it and most likely the trustee would leave it alone. It's a big deal b/c I'd hate for my motherinlaw to have to sell her property b/c of us! So I don't know how to believe what he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellard Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Is your mother in law aware of your situation? Does she have an attorney or someone that could assist you?We had to sell our house because of loss of my hubbies job..we received only the pay off amount and then filed BK on our other debt. WE hoped to make money on house to pay the other bills but it didnt happen. at least we didnt get a forclosure on our credit report. That was in 2002 and we are looking to buy again in 6-12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky12 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 yes she is aware but she doesn't know any more than we do.this property is just a lot - no house - it would be hard to sell. the bk attorney seems confident it won't be an issue - he says it COULD but is not likely. I guess we'll just trust him and hope he's right - I don't know any other way. Every attny. I spoke with said somthing different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willingtocope Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 It is a bit of a crap shoot. You could go sit in on a couple of BK sessions in your area and see how the trustees behave. Maybe you'll get lucky and there will be a case similar to yours.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellard Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Did you try legal aid. Not sure if they help in BK cases? Im confused about the lot- is that the in laws...you owned your house now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky12 Posted January 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 yes - sorry - we own our home - no equity in it so we are ok there - the property is a lot in a neighborhood. Good idea about sitting in on bk cases but i have 4 kids - 2 of them are not in school so that is not an option and my husband is traveling all th time with his new job that he obviously needs to keep! I guess we'll trust the attorney. It seems a little too easy to file chapter 7 but maybe it's just nat as hard as i always thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellard Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 I filed ch7- like i said we already sold house . We had 2 used cars- we keep them. We had nothing else of value so it was pretty easy. Our attorney let us make a few payments like 1/3 up front to get the ball rolling. If you do file- its not the end of the world. At the same time my hubby lost his job the VA also cut me from 100 to 60 % disability with one months warning. We went from living fat on the hog to bacon bits almost overnight!! Its part of life - good and bad- we learn from our mistakes or experiences and try a litter harder next time. Good luck - and if you are still confused call a few more attorneys for advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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