MOV - Does sugar work better than vinegar?

[n00b]

Hello out there,

I'm completely new here and have spent most of my day absorbing tons of really great information from the site and forums. This is my first post so please bear with me. Also please forgive me if I'm posting a question that's been asked and kindly point me in its direction as I haven't been able to find an exact answer in my wandering search so far. Links will do just fine.

So, on my EQ report, there's an item from a CA who never notified me of the debt and the OC is a doctor in Amarillo, TX. (I live in an entirely different state, and timezone for that matter.) Is it worth being nice in an initial letter, "Hey so I just noticed this. Did someone maybe make a mistake at your office" or would this be a waste of time, paper, and ink?

I hate being a hard-*** and feel weird about sending a first letter that is threatening a lawsuit if I can get away with being nice, and I also dont want to waste my time if a nice letter would just meet a quick death at the CA's shredder.

Thanks,

- the newest n00b.

[YoUrFrIeNdMiKe]

disputing the debt with eq then wait and see if they delete it

[ShortBus]

MOV occurs after your initial letter, it's not the first thing you send them. Your first contact ought to be a simple dispute letter. All you need to list is the account information in the letter and tell them you have no knowledge of the alleged debt; it could be a two sentences long if you'd like. Don't forget to send a similar letter to the creditor listed too. Both go out CMRRR.

Now, if the CRA actually verifies after investigating your dispute, then you attempt the MOV.

[Ahntara]

Never send an ITS unless you actually plan to sue. ITS letters rarely work because CA's are used to being threatened. They know that consumers can easily dash off a form letter found on the net, but that few will actually follow through. A summons can work really well, especially if you have a well-documented case to back it up.

I agree with ShortBus, start with a dispute to the CRA's. Work that GW (goodwill) angle with the Doctor's office. Your goal is for them to withdraw the account from their CA, leaving nothing to get verified in response to a future dispute. That's why you dispute, with a generic reason, FIRST - just in case it falls off without additional effort.

[Michael925]

MOV occurs after your initial letter, it's not the first thing you send them. Your first contact ought to be a simple dispute letter. All you need to list is the account information in the letter and tell them you have no knowledge of the alleged debt; it could be a two sentences long if you'd like. Don't forget to send a similar letter to the creditor listed too. Both go out CMRRR.

Now, if the CRA actually verifies after investigating your dispute, then you attempt the MOV.

ShortBus, have you or any one here had any success with a MOV. Just last week I recieved my first round of disputes back and I was gonna MOV but I had somone else on this boards saying its a waste of time.

[n00b]

Got it. So, I send out three separate letters, in sequence (not at the same time):

1. Dispute through CRA saying "Not mine"

2. *IF* it comes back verified, mail a simple/short/non-accusatory letter to the CA stating that I don't think the debt is mine and ask if they can provide contact information for OC/doctor-that-practices-in-a-diff-state

3. Write a GW letter to the doc asking for more information

If the debt happens to stick through all of this, THAT is when I would start the MOV stuff. Am I interpreting everything correctly?

Thank you again for the help on this!

PS, on the ITS letter, I absolutely agree on the comment about not threatening for the sake of threatening and apologize if my initial post was worded poorly.

The letter that I was starting has legislative citations in it, and although the language in the letter doesn't explicitly state an intent to sue, my experience has been (with other things, not credit stuff) that when you start citing pieces of legislature, it means, "Dude. I know my rights. Don't mess with me because I will sue your happy-self." It's just more veiled than an ITS.

Thanks again!

[Ahntara]

Dispute to the CRA's with a generic reason first. You can use 'not mine' or some other reason. If the DF fails to verify, TL is gone, no other action needed.

If verified, send DV to the CA.

Send GW to the Doctor's office (find the contact info yourself) requesting they pull the account BACK from their CA.

MOV is for gathering evidence of willful noncompliance by the CRA's, so if you never plan to end up in court against them, it's pretty useless. Some consumers like peppering the CRA's with correspondence and go through the motions of MOV even though they won't be following through. That's ok and just may yield the result you hope for. Our experience proves otherwise though. Whether you choose to go that route or not is up to you.

You're free to write and cite whatever you wish. The FCRA was drafted with the 'least sophisticated consumer' in mind. Many believe, and I agree, that it's best to begin by appearing to be THAT, rather than well-informed and statute citing. IF you choose to go the court route, being simple and unsophisticated may lull your opponents into additional violations that might help you achieve your goals later. That's the theory, anyway.

[rmuse00]

MOV is for gathering evidence of willful noncompliance by the CRA's, so if you never plan to end up in court against them, it's pretty useless. Some consumers like peppering the CRA's with correspondence and go through the motions of MOV even though they won't be following through. That's ok and just may yield the result you hope for. Our experience proves otherwise though. Whether you choose to go that route or not is up to you.

You're free to write and cite whatever you wish. The FCRA was drafted with the 'least sophisticated consumer' in mind. Many believe, and I agree, that it's best to begin by appearing to be THAT, rather than well-informed and statute citing. IF you choose to go the court route, being simple and unsophisticated may lull your opponents into additional violations that might help you achieve your goals later. That's the theory, anyway.

Agree.

I requested 2 MOV's while in my CapOne dispute and were ignore by TU and EX both. I was not surprised and actually hoped that they would ignore so I could add to the non-compliance folders that I had on these two CRA's that were at least 2 inches thick. If I had to sue I would have plenty of docs to show they were given several opportunities to correct their records but chose to ignore my many requests proving their willful non-compliance.

[dtronx]

Here is a good post on whychats's site regarding medical and HIPPA. This worked for me to get 2 medical off of my CR because under HIPPA - Your furnishing of my account information to (collection agency name), is not in compliance with HIPAA,or (name of your State}'s Privacy Act, and any subsequent reporting of this account on my credit reports to (credit reporting bureaus) is a clear violation of Public Law 104-191 ("HIPAA") since there can be no permissible business purpose in divulging protected health information to anyone on an account once there is no longer any payment due.

You are required under the FCRA and FACTA to accurately report the status of any account to the credit bureaus, and you are prohibited under the HIPAA and State privacy regulations from doing so on a PAID account, as there is no longer any permitted business purpose

here's the web link : http://whychat.5u.com/hipltr.html

Hope this helps.

[n00b]

Here is a good post on whychats's site regarding medical and HIPPA. This worked for me to get 2 medical off of my CR because under HIPPA - Your furnishing of my account information to (collection agency name), is not in compliance with HIPAA,or (name of your State}'s Privacy Act, and any subsequent reporting of this account on my credit reports to (credit reporting bureaus) is a clear violation of Public Law 104-191 ("HIPAA") since there can be no permissible business purpose in divulging protected health information to anyone on an account once there is no longer any payment due.

You are required under the FCRA and FACTA to accurately report the status of any account to the credit bureaus, and you are prohibited under the HIPAA and State privacy regulations from doing so on a PAID account, as there is no longer any permitted business purpose

here's the web link : http://whychat.5u.com/hipltr.html

Hope this helps.

Thanks! I don't know if the debt is paid or not; I don't think it's mine. I've never been to the doctor and google says his practice is in an entirely different timezone.

One thing that I wanted to clarify from your post, though, is that while I understand that a doctor can't make a listing to your credit report, my understanding is that a CA can reflect it as a collection acct and that the responsibility is on me to negotiate removal of the collection item, just the same as any other.

Am I missing something? Because it would surely be awesome to use HIPPA to clean up some other medical debt. It's just that the one I was talking about originally is a situation that I believe to be a genuine mistake.

[dtronx]

Here is a good letter from Why Chat's to the OC that can help you with you HIPPA stuff :

(Your Name)

(address)

(City,State, zip)

s.s.# (social security #)

Legal Dept.

( health care provider creditor)

(address)

(date)

Dear Sir/Madam;

This letter is in reference to (account #) for services provided to (name of patient) on (date of service).

In regard to the bill on this account in the amount of ($___):

Insert correct insert here:( see inserts below) (a) ( or ©

Please be advised that under Federal Statutes. the Fair Credit Reporting Act, (15 U.S.C. § 1681 et seq)and (name of your State)'s Consumer Credit Statutes, you may be held liable for the actions of (collection agency name).

(a) Duty of furnishers of information to provide accurate information.

(1) Prohibition.

(A) Reporting information with actual knowledge of errors.

A person shall not furnish any information relating to a consumer to any consumer reporting agency if the person knows or consciously avoids knowing that the information is inaccurate.

In addition, the HIPAA and (name of your State)'s Medical Privacy Statutes are in effect in this situation even though the health care services you provided may have been prior to enactment .

The Privacy Rules prohibits a covered entity from using or disclosing an individual's protected health information ("PHI") unless specifically authorized by the individual or otherwise allowed under the Privacy Rules.

In general, PHI encompasses substantially all "individually identifiable health information" that is transmitted or maintained in any medium. "Individually identifiable health information" includes health information that is created or received by a health care provider, health plan, employer, or health care clearinghouse, and that relates to an individual's physical or mental health or condition, including information related to an individual's care or the PAYMENT for such care.

Your furnishing of my account information to (collection agency name), is not in compliance with HIPAA,or (name of your State}'s Privacy Act, and any subsequent reporting of this account on my credit reports to (credit reporting bureaus) is a clear violation of Public Law 104-191 ("HIPAA") since there can be no permissible business purpose in divulging protected health information to anyone on an account once there is no longer any payment due.

You are required under the FCRA and FACTA to accurately report the status of any account to the credit bureaus, and you are prohibited under the HIPAA and State privacy regulations from doing so on a PAID account, as there is no longer any permitted business purpose.

Therefore I am requesting you promptly rescind all such account information furnished to (collection agency) and require them to purge their records of all reference to this account, and that you insure that any and all reporting of this account is immediately deleted from my credit reports.

This simple procedure to request the deletion of ALL reference to this account from the records of ( collection agency name) and to require them to have this account information deleted in its entirety from my credit reports will resolve this problem completely.

Please respond, in writing within 10 days that you are processing this request.

I am reserving the right, to take appropriate legal and civil action including reporting to any applicable regulatory authorities any lack of cooperation or compliance with this request.

I hereby waive my rights under HIPAA and any State Privacy Act for the single purpose of your transmission of this request and accompanying documentation in any required report you must make to your E &O insurance carrier.

Sincerely,

signature

(Your Name)

INSERTS

............................................................................ .............................................

(insert a)

Enclosed please find my remittance of ($___) for payment in full of this account.

(insert this if the payment is less than billed)This payment in full is for services as per the attached fee schedule from XXXX XXXX)

Health Care Billing Charts

Please note, my remittance is payable ONLY to (hc provider) and may not be signed over or transferred to any third party collection agency, as this would constitute an additional violation of HIPAA and State Privacy Act rules .

Copies of this correspondence and a copy of the remittance check may be used for any further actions with State or Federal agencies

.......................................................................... ..............................................

(insert

This account is in error.

It has either been paid, is a billing error,or was not transmitted in a timely manner to my insurance company.

It is not a valid bill and has been properly disputed, therefore I request complete deletion from all your records and archives.

.......................................................................... ...............................................

(insert c)

This is not my account,

It has been billed to me in error. and has been properly disputed, therefore I request complete deletion from all your records and archives.

.......................................................................... ................................................

INSTRUCTIONS FOR FOLLOW UP TO "HIPAA" LETTER TO ORIGINAL CREDITOR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER

ALL FURTHER CORRESPONDENCE SHOULD BE SENT CMRR

1-

Make sure any money order has been deposited ,or you have received a return receipt from your letter if insert "b" or "c" were used.

2-

Send the follow up letter posted below.

3-

Send a copy of the follow up letter to the OC (legal dept) with the cover letter,(follows letter to CRA)

4-

If the CRA responds with verification from the CA or the OC, file a complaint with the HIPAA administration for the OC's violation of the privacy rules of HIPAA,and with any available State's Medical Privacy Act administration.

If they do NOT respond with any verification and the account is NOT deleted, file a civil suit against the OC and the CA for their liability for violations of the FCRA and FACTA.

5-

DO NOT under any circumstances, write or correspond with the CA regarding this matter, any correspondence or communication that YOU instigate, while not a waiver of your privacy rights under HIPAA, will impede any cause of action you might have as the non permitted "communication" would have come from YOU.

Please understand, the CA may have NO liability under HIPAA, they are NOT the health provider. They are not in any way covered under the provisions of the act for "old accounts", however, if the account is "new" they ALSO must abide by all the privacy act rules,if THEY violate, they can also be named in your filed complaints.

Letter To Cra After HIPAA Letter

Use this AFTER you have received the green card back and received verification that any money order has been deposited (if using insert "a")

To Equiexptu

Sirs;

This is a dispute of account information on my credit report, (report #)

Please re-investigate (or investigate if you have not previously disputed) the following disputed account on my credit report.

(give CA name and acct. #)

Please furnish me with verification that (CA name) is reporting this account from (OC name) for ($ amount) in my name.

I require the identification of the reporting party and the date of their verification.

Please be advised that this request is being made in accordance with the requirements of the FCRA and FACTA and the reporting privacy rules of the HIPAA and (your State)'s Medical Privacy Act.

Sincerely,

Ido N Tnow

(Send a copy to the legal Dept. of the OC health provider with the following cover letter)

Cover Letter

Your Name

Address

Legal Department

OC Name

Address

Re: Letter of (date of orginal letter)

Account #(original account #)

Dear Sir or Madam;

Enclosed please find a copy of my letter(s) of dispute to (CRA (s)).

Please note, I am providing you with an additional opportunity to have this account removed from (CA) and deleted from my credit reports if you have not already done so.

I have no desire to cause you unnecessary difficulty,however,this entry of my private health care information,on my credit report, for an account that no longer has ANY permitted business purpose waiver since there is NO payment due, has caused injury to my credit reputation,and has left me no choice but to proceed with the following:

Upon my receipt of the FCRA and FACTA mandated reply from (CRA),if the account has NOT been deleted in its entirety,I will take appropriate action to enforce my rights under the HIPAA, FCRA and FACTA rules and (your State)'s Consumer Protection and Medical Privacy statutes.

Sincerely,

HIPAA COMPLAINT PROCESS

[ShortBus]

ShortBus, have you or any one here had any success with a MOV. Just last week I recieved my first round of disputes back and I was gonna MOV but I had somone else on this boards saying its a waste of time.

I've only tried it twice and haven't had any luck either time. :-\ But I haven't really pushed it either though. I'm currently fighting other battles and am more in mindset to be dealing with the furnishers at the moment. However, it's worth the $5.21 for me to try, I figure.