Jump to content

Moderators: Why is this sticky locked?


Boscoe
 Share

Recommended Posts

To all moderators: Why did you lock the thread "Weird things that happen to your credit score"?

The last post there is not exactly an accurate one, and to let that be the last posting gives readers an incorrect view of how to raise and keep your credit score as high as possible.

Please consider unlocking, so we can respond to and clarify Methuss's comments in that last posting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a similar sticky titled "Why you don't dispute online" that used to be a few pages long. It was a very good, polite and reasonable discussion, but not eveyone agreed with Methuss, so he deleted all the other posts except his and locked it.

The thread you mentioned is locked because Methuss says that Methuss is always right about everything.

Much respect for your knowoledge and critical thinking, Methuss, but you can have kind of a big head sometimes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was a very good, polite and reasonable discussion, but not eveyone agreed with Methuss, so he deleted all the other posts except his and locked it.

For the record I did not delete anything. I have a general policy of NOT deleting anything even when they don't agree with me. One of the other admins decided to trim down the sticky threads and lock it. As a matter of fact I have encouraged lively debates openly.

So please stop talking out of your @ss when you don't know the facts.

And no that last post is not incorrect. If you were born a millionaire and paid cash for everything, you would have not have a FICO score of 800, even if you have a ton of ready cash. Because you have no history. A FICO score is a risk measure of your debt repayment history.

As I said, the only way to have a high FICO is to get into debt. Since the bureaus scrub your old, good, closed accounts after 10 years, the only way to keep a high FICO score is to stay in debt regularly. You have to keep borrowing and paying back.

What is a no-tradeline, no inquiry score? 500. No history = high risk. (and yes, I do have a friend who has no tradeline/no inquiry file, so I've seen it) Sorry if I just sent your world crashing down with that reality check.

So with that, this debate is now open. Go ahead and voice your analysis of why that logic is wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the record I did not delete anything. I have a general policy of NOT deleting anything even when they don't agree with me. One of the other admins decided to trim down the sticky threads and lock it. As a matter of fact I have encouraged lively debates openly.

So please stop talking out of your @ss when you don't know the facts.

And no that last post is not incorrect. If you were born a millionaire and paid cash for everything, you would have not have a FICO score of 800, even if you have a ton of ready cash. Because you have no history. A FICO score is a risk measure of your debt repayment history.

As I said, the only way to have a high FICO is to get into debt. Since the bureaus scrub your old, good, closed accounts after 10 years, the only way to keep a high FICO score is to stay in debt regularly. You have to keep borrowing and paying back.

What is a no-tradeline, no inquiry score? 500. No history = high risk. (and yes, I do have a friend who has no tradeline/no inquiry file, so I've seen it) Sorry if I just sent your world crashing down with that reality check.

So with that, this debate is now open. Go ahead and voice your analysis of why that logic is wrong.

Amen.

You are absolutely right about the FICO score; I'm not sure why anyone would debate it (except perhaps by those who confuse "lifestyle" with "wealth"!

You cannot have a FICO score unless you have relatively recent debt and the only way to have a hight FICO score is to have a fairly significant amount of recent debt that you've always kept current.

Which is why my stated goal is a ZERO FICO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Borrowing and then paying in full, yes is incurring debt but then paying it off. Unless you are referring to taking on a mtg and that this is a bad thing, I still don't understand.

As we all say, the FICO system assess and tries to predict risk. You do need to use credit, but if you pay in full each month, your scores can and often do stay very high.

Maybe I am missing something here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There should not be *ANY* debate in a sticky thread. A sticky thread is there as a reference resource only. With only a few exceptions (like adding new state law links) sticky theads will remain locked. If you want to debate information in a sticky thread, start a new thread with a link back to the sticky. If you feel you have some wisdom that needs to be included in a locked sticky, follow the instructions about sticky threads and PM the information to a Mod or Admin.

Since I'm the Sticky Thread Cop, it may have been me-although I haven't locked a sticky thread in months and when I did nothing was deleted but was moved out of the stickys into new threads.

Now then... What was the topic of this thread?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is a no-tradeline, no inquiry score? 500. No history = high risk.

Meth,

Last I heard, a no TL/no INQ is a zero score because there is nothing to grade.

BTW, my ex-H had ONLY CAs....no INQs, no TL and his FICO was in the high 580s!!!! My ex-H is the WORST credit risk ever! So FICO got this one seriously wrong!!!! LOL8-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Borrowing and then paying in full, yes is incurring debt but then paying it off. Unless you are referring to taking on a mtg and that this is a bad thing, I still don't understand.

As we all say, the FICO system assess and tries to predict risk. You do need to use credit, but if you pay in full each month, your scores can and often do stay very high.

Maybe I am missing something here.

There is nothing "good" about debt regardless of what the debt is for. A mortgage is probably the least objectionable type of debt because generally (not always to be sure as some on this board can attest) you are buying an appreciating asset and providing a basic need (a place to live) at the same time.

FICO scores do not asses risk - a millionaire many times over who hasn't used debt in many years will have a zero FICO...should he want to go out a borrow $1K he would be turned down even though in his world, that would be like most of us borrowning money for lunch today because we forgot our money clip.

It is the debt industry, and the FICO score is part of that, which spends hundred's of millions of dollars every year to convince us that we NEED debt. We do not need debt, we need wealth and we will never have the later until we get rid of the former.

Yes, if you play the game of using a CC or many CCs and paying them all off each month (bear in mind that very, very few actually do pay them off each month) that probably will keep you FICO score high but then ask yourself to what end? Why exactly do you need a high FICO score?

The only thing a high FICO score gives you is the ability to go quickly, easily and deeply into debt...that doesn't sound like a good plan to me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is nothing "good" about debt regardless of what the debt is for.

One of the biggest misstatements that I have ever seen. The best way to build wealth is to use other people's money.

Not all debt is good, not all debt is bad. There is, in fact, plenty of bad debt out there. People who carry high balances at high rates are not using credit wisely. But there is also plenty of good debt, and wise people using it.

I'll give you a personal example of good debt. I have a card which offered me .99% (yes, less than 1%) on balance transfers until paid. I had another card with the same bank. I called, transferred most of the credit line from the othe one to the one with the .99% offer. I made sure the one with the .99% was paid off. Then I told them to send me a check for the entire credit line, minus $100, which would more than cover interest on the entire balance for a month.

I have no intention of paying a penny of this money back before it is due. I'll pay minimums every month (have them deducted from my bank account, as a matter of fact), but not a penny more.

I can then invest this money. Even something like ING direct will give me between 4 and 5%. Considering taxes, I'm still ahead of the game. And there are investments which will net me more than that--the money market or savings account is the most conservative.

If I get another chance like this, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I know that a lot of people play the 0% intro rate game and keep shifting the money around, but I haven't had time to track in that kind of detail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm glad it wasn't you, Methuss. That kind of bothered me. I had asked about it a while back, and got no answer.

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272095

Care to share who it was that deleted everything so I can pick a fight with them instead of you?

I don't remember...truthfully. That all happened like six months ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I for one intend to have a fantastic credit rating, several TL's in good standing and with no significant revolving balances to speak of.

Debt; whether consummer or business always entails risk and few people ever take that into consideration.

I'm sure your friend feels very sophiscated and he may well get away with his plan forever with no bad consequences but for every one of "him" there are hundreds who aren't/won't be so lucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The FICO tips generator will consistently tell you that "Most FICO high achievers" have a utilization of less than 9%.

I'd like to know how that reconciles with the "I love debt" score concept.

Because you have to maintain it. The card issuers report to the bureaus right after a billing cycle. The FICO model counts dormant cards against you. That means you have to carry a balance of some amount in order to avoid that...and that means paying some amount of interest. The card issuers know how the model scores and have set up the system so they get at least some interest off you. If you have a $29 annual fee and you carry a balance of only $10 each month you are effectively paying 2900% interest.

And in case you were not aware, a bunch of $0/low balance credit card accounts will count against you when applying for a mortgage. Any underwriter with half a brain will see all those credit cards and treat you as a higher risk. Why? Because you are an accident looking for a place to happen. Statistically 87% of consumers with a large amount of available revolving credit goes out and buys furniture, drapes, household goods, and immediate improvements such as a fence or deck right after buying a house.

Lenders have had nearly 50 years (the late 60's is when lenders started agressively marketing debt to consumers in America) to develop all their tricks and traps to catch consumers. If you think you are going to beat them at their own game, you...are...kidding...your...self. You are playing with snakes and will get bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then I don't understand why posters like Robert Nashville are even looking at this forum. No credit, no debt, no credit score, high insurance rates, tough to get employment, pay cash for everything. Not my idea of an ideal life.

Let me just say this about that...

I've never had a problem getting a job and in fact, I would refuse to work for any company that made a hiring decision based on a FICO score - any company too stupid to actualy look at my credit report and SEE how I handle my finances is too stupid for me to want to work for.

I suspect my insurance costs are minimul compared to many others here; part of that is because I self-insure to a great extent - if you have cash, you don't need to buy insurance to protect you from everything.

I also don't have to spend a lot of time writing letters and disputing debts and hoping for violations or spend a lot of time in court trying to collect violation money so that I can afford to pay debts I should have paid months or years before but didn't pay for whatever reason.

Most people here get in trouble because they build their lifestyle on a foundation of credit/debt; then, when an emergency happens (job loss, medical emergency, etc. etc.) their lifestyle is gone becsue they can no longer support their debt load. so, not only do they have a job loss or medical emergency but now they've also got a financial emergency to deal with.

When you actually own your lifestyle and have CASH and you have an emergency, (and I've had plenty in my life) you have an emergency fund to handle financial part of the emergency...a job loss becomes not an emergency but an opportunity to find a better employer or start a new career.

So you are free to think I have no business being here or that I've nothing to offer people here but I'll take a paid for life any day over a piece of plastic regrdless of what color the plastic is or what picture is on the card or how many frequent flier miles it will give me (that I'll never be able to redeem anyway).

And for you, who has been here perhaps a month, or anyone else who think that living without debt is the wrong or the old fashioned or the unsophiscated, etc. etc. way to live; perhapse should spend some time reading a few thousand posts here about all those who have lived their lives with debt and credit and see how well it's worked out for them.

Have a nice day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well put Robert. And if you are debt-free you are doing better than most of us.

Most (but not all) people are here because debt has gotten them into trouble. That's why I just don't understand why people are so enamoured about a FICO score. I mean debt has been such a blessing for them so far. Maybe they shouldn't be so concerned about getting into more debt -- seriously why would anyone care about having a high FICO unless they intend to take out more credit -- and be more focused on getting out of debt (and staying that way).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Robert, congrats on your success.

When you decided to begin your "paid for lifestyle" (you had to start at some point in time), then and there you didn't have your emergency fund. You were BLESSED. You didn't have multiple tragedies occur before you could get that established.

I was living a debt free life. I can tell you that it is STRESS free....for the most part. Then the alien arrived and took over the now ex-H...before I could blink an eye, the savings was zero and the checking negative. (Understand we had been married for over 7 years at this point!) The only credit I had was my mortgage (thank you VA) which quickly spiraled into foreclosure. So, simply, all hades rained down on my life.

So catastrophies can happen regardless of planning.

I rebuilt. I got credit cards. I was rebuilding the savings. Then I lost my job. My savings :) AND my credit cards got me through this time. Yes, I went from 1% util to 99%, but I got the next job and I am in pay off mode.

To each his own with respect to FICO scores and whether or not you should have credit. I am glad I did.:mrgreen:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all before anyone misunderstands I do have debt – a fifteen year fixed rate mortgage that I took out in 2003 when I bought my house.

After a divorce and a bankruptcy, and repos and job losses and jobs that had me not staying in one place for all that long, I went almost 20 years before buying a house again.

That said, if you think I’ve just been lucky or that I haven’t had my life difficulties you are very, very wrong. No doubt I have be more fortunate than many, but certainly not as fortunate as many others. What I have I’ve gotten from working hard and never being satisfied with “where I was” at any given…while most guys my age are getting ready for retirement I’m getting ready for my next career.

It is certainly true that you can do everything right and still have terrible financial difficulties - some people can have so many bad things happen or have them happen so close together that almost no amount of preparation is going to be sufficient. You can’t protect yourself from everything. That said, most people do very little of the right things to protect themselves.

In my experience, those who are most convinced that having a 6 month emergency fund of ready cash isn’t enough to handle most issues (and that they therefore need credit cards for “emergencies”) have never had a 6 month emergency fund.

Likewise, those who have debts that require monthly payments and who claim that “medical problems” kept them from making their payments (in other words, the medical problems are what caused their financial problems) likely didn’t have disability insurance to provide income in the event they became unable to work due to medical problems.

The thousands of people who come here looking for information should be enough to indicate that the “normal” way American’s live their lives doesn’t work – that continuing to spend more than you make isn’t a viable way of life. Yet people go back to what well time after time after time never havening learned a thing from the problems they’ve already had.

If you want to believe that credit and debt is the answer; you are very well entitled to your opinion but as someone I respect says better than I do, “if you want to be at a healthy weight, do what healthy people do – if you want to be wealthy, do what wealthy people do”.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Living without credit for 98% of the population is not realistic, and anyone who bashes those that do like to use it should not even be posting here or any other credit forum.

Let's keep it real, guys. Living without credit is not realistic and is unnecessary. Like this whole conversation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.. For more information, please see our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.