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Next step? Late partial validation? SOL?


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Need to know what to do next. We are in Missouri - 5 year SOL I believe (unsure of when that date starts though)

What has happened (from newest to oldest)

1. Received on 1/14/08 via regular mail response from Wolpoff & Abramson that says client is Palisades Collection LLC Assignee of Providian on 1/7/08 with a photo copy of application for CC from 1998. The app has signature, SS#, and phone numbers. Then on same photo copy paper at top is something with a bunch of numbers and bar codes - but honestly don't know if it's something from Providian, Palisades, W&A or what. It also has a received date stamp on the side of photo copy paper of 1/4/07 (not 2008). No amounts owed with this info, no statements, no total due, etc.

2. Sent on 11/6/07 letter to W&A stating they failed to respond to my request for validation on 2/11/04 (which I sent registered/return receipt and have green card from usps for). I sent copies of that letter and card. This was in response to a letter from them from 10/15/07 attempting to collect the debt. Also sent this registered return receipt.

3. Received letter via reg mail from W&A trying to collect a debt says Palisades Collection LLC Assignee of Providian.

4. Sent on 2/11/04 letter requesting validation registered and return receipt to W&A.

5. Received letter via regular mail dated 1/30/04 from W&A saying I owe. Palisades collection llc assignee of providian national bank. No original account number on this one. THe W&A file # is different than the latest letter though and the amount is different ($98.23 MORE than most recent). They are both in the $7,100 range though.

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Got copies of credit reports from 3 bureaus.

Experian shows:

Wash Mutual/Providian (with what looks to be same beginning #'s of account)

Status: Transferred,closed/Account charged off, $(amount) written off.

Date opened 2/1998

Type:Revolving

Date of Status: 11/2003

Last Reported: 11/2003

Creditor's Statement: Purchased by another lender

Account History:

Charge Off as of Oct 2003, Sep 2003, Jul 2003, Jun 2003, May 2003, Apr 2003, Mar 2003, Feb 2003, Jan 2003, Dec 2002, Nov 2002

180 days as of Nov 2002

150 days as of Oct 2002, Sep 2002

120 days as of Aug 2002

90 days as of Jul 2002

60 days as of Jun 2002

30 days as of May 2002

Transunion

WASHMTL/PROV (account # matches W&A letter)

Loan Type Credit Card

Remark: Purchased by another lender

Estimated date this item will be removed 02/2009

Balance $0

Date Updated 11/2003

Pay Status: >Charged Off as Bad Debt<

Account Type: Revoloing Account

Date Closed 11/2002

Date Paid: 11/2003

Also on Transunion under "REGULAR INQUIRIES" section is:

Wolpoff & Abramson LLP

Requested on: 10/10/2007

Inquiry Type: Individual

Equifax - no reference at all to this account or collection

----

SO NOW WHAT?????

Any help would be appreciated.

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Need to know what to do next. We are in Missouri - 5 year SOL I believe (unsure of when that date starts though)

What has happened (from newest to oldest)

1. Received on 1/14/08 via regular mail response from Wolpoff & Abramson that says client is Palisades Collection LLC Assignee of Providian on 1/7/08 with a photo copy of application for CC from 1998. The app has signature, SS#, and phone numbers. Then on same photo copy paper at top is something with a bunch of numbers and bar codes - but honestly don't know if it's something from Providian, Palisades, W&A or what. It also has a received date stamp on the side of photo copy paper of 1/4/07 (not 2008). No amounts owed with this info, no statements, no total due, etc.

2. Sent on 11/6/07 letter to W&A stating they failed to respond to my request for validation on 2/11/04 (which I sent registered/return receipt and have green card from usps for). I sent copies of that letter and card. This was in response to a letter from them from 10/15/07 attempting to collect the debt. Also sent this registered return receipt.

3. Received letter via reg mail from W&A trying to collect a debt says Palisades Collection LLC Assignee of Providian.

4. Sent on 2/11/04 letter requesting validation registered and return receipt to W&A.

5. Received letter via regular mail dated 1/30/04 from W&A saying I owe. Palisades collection llc assignee of providian national bank. No original account number on this one. THe W&A file # is different than the latest letter though and the amount is different ($98.23 MORE than most recent). They are both in the $7,100 range though.

---

Got copies of credit reports from 3 bureaus.

Experian shows:

Wash Mutual/Providian (with what looks to be same beginning #'s of account)

Status: Transferred,closed/Account charged off, $(amount) written off.

Date opened 2/1998

Type:Revolving

Date of Status: 11/2003

Last Reported: 11/2003

Creditor's Statement: Purchased by another lender

Account History:

Charge Off as of Oct 2003, Sep 2003, Jul 2003, Jun 2003, May 2003, Apr 2003, Mar 2003, Feb 2003, Jan 2003, Dec 2002, Nov 2002

180 days as of Nov 2002

150 days as of Oct 2002, Sep 2002

120 days as of Aug 2002

90 days as of Jul 2002

60 days as of Jun 2002

30 days as of May 2002

Transunion

WASHMTL/PROV (account # matches W&A letter)

Loan Type Credit Card

Remark: Purchased by another lender

Estimated date this item will be removed 02/2009

Balance $0

Date Updated 11/2003

Pay Status: >Charged Off as Bad Debt<

Account Type: Revoloing Account

Date Closed 11/2002

Date Paid: 11/2003

Also on Transunion under "REGULAR INQUIRIES" section is:

Wolpoff & Abramson LLP

Requested on: 10/10/2007

Inquiry Type: Individual

Equifax - no reference at all to this account or collection

----

SO NOW WHAT?????

Any help would be appreciated.

DOFD would be approx apr/may 02 based on your EX. I'm confused about some of your dates for DV though. Did they initially attempt to collect in 02/04, were DV'd and again dunned you in 10/07?

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DOFD would be approx apr/may 02 based on your EX. I'm confused about some of your dates for DV though. Did they initially attempt to collect in 02/04, were DV'd and again dunned you in 10/07?

What is DOFD?

Yes, they attempted to collected in 2004, and I got no reply to DV letter. Then just again in 2007 they started again.

Any suggestions on what to do next?

Thanks

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In today's regular mail came a letter from Cohen McNeile & Pappas P.C. out of Kansas. This one states the balance of over $11,xxx.xx now. Says for account balance with Palisades Collection Llc Assignee of Providian (still confused because the one credit report says it was SOLD not assigned).

Letter states:

"above debt has been referred to our law office for collection. We are hereby making demand upon you to contact us for payment of this debt. If you are on active duty in the military, please provide us with written documentation to that effect. This communication is from a debt collector and is an attempt to collect a debt. Any information obtained will be used for that purpose. Unless you notify us within thirty (30) days after receipt of this letter that the validity of this debt, or any portion of it, is disputed, we will assume that the debt is valid. If you do notify us of a dispute, we will obtain verification of the debt and mail it to you. Further, upon you written request within 30 (30) days, we will provide you with the name and address of the original creditor if different from the current creditor. We may proceed with suit against you without waiting the 30 days if so requested by our client."

NOW WHAT DO I DO??????

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What is DOFD?

Yes, they attempted to collected in 2004, and I got no reply to DV letter. Then just again in 2007 they started again.

Any suggestions on what to do next?

Thanks

DOFD= Date of First Default = when you missed your first payment and never brought the account current.

W&A usually don't get involved in anything unless they're going to sue. Since it's been 4 years since their initial contact, you might want to check and see if they haven't already gotten a judgement against you. Check on your county's website or you might have to go down to the courthouse. Let us know what you can find out there. If one exists, you might have grounds to have it vacated if your initial DV in '04 was timely and they never validated the debt.

SOL has expired but that only gives you an affirmative defense if they do sue now.

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DOFD= Date of First Default = when you missed your first payment and never brought the account current.

W&A usually don't get involved in anything unless they're going to sue. Since it's been 4 years since their initial contact, you might want to check and see if they haven't already gotten a judgement against you. Check on your county's website or you might have to go down to the courthouse. Let us know what you can find out there. If one exists, you might have grounds to have it vacated if your initial DV in '04 was timely and they never validated the debt.

SOL has expired but that only gives you an affirmative defense if they do sue now.

Just checked the county website and there are NOT any judgements. I actually called to make sure that the site would find them and was told yes, they are all listed and are updated in real time even. So, definitely no existing judgements.

I don't understand how they can just not reply in 04 and then pop up again in 07.

Do I need to reply with a letter to the new law firm letter I received today? If so, what type of letter. Do I even mention about the SOL? I've been reading the website, but it does get quite confusing.

Thanks for your help thus far and any other help you can offer. I'm a nervous wreck with all of this stuff!

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In today's regular mail came a letter from Cohen McNeile & Pappas P.C. out of Kansas. This one states the balance of over $11,xxx.xx now. Says for account balance with Palisades Collection Llc Assignee of Providian (still confused because the one credit report says it was SOLD not assigned).

First, in this context (the title they're likely to put on a lawsuit) "Assignee" means they are not the Original Creditor, but have purchased the debt.

I may be reading between the lines a little, but it seems W&A re-activated this account last October. Their letter to you violated the FDCPA in that it was a further collection activity, as they hadn't provided documentation in response to you 2004 DV letter. Then, although they now belatedly sent you some documentation in their letter of 1/14/2008, they seem to have turned the account over to Cohen McNeile & Pappas P.C. (Unless the CM&P letter could be for a different account?)

I think you have two choices.

1. Send a DV letter to CM&P.

2. Send a letter to CM&P telling them not to contact you anymore, that the SOL has expired. Although SOL expiration is an affirmative defense to a lawsuit, as nascar_devil says, they may not bother to file a lawsuit if they know you know the SOL has expired.

One other thing. At the top of CM&P's letter, are there lawyer's names listed? Check your state's bar association website to see if they're licensed in your state. If not, they can't file a lawsuit.

DH

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First, in this context (the title they're likely to put on a lawsuit) "Assignee" means they are not the Original Creditor, but have purchased the debt.

I may be reading between the lines a little, but it seems W&A re-activated this account last October. Their letter to you violated the FDCPA in that it was a further collection activity, as they hadn't provided documentation in response to you 2004 DV letter. Then, although they now belatedly sent you some documentation in their letter of 1/14/2008, they seem to have turned the account over to Cohen McNeile & Pappas P.C. (Unless the CM&P letter could be for a different account?)

I think you have two choices.

1. Send a DV letter to CM&P.

2. Send a letter to CM&P telling them not to contact you anymore, that the SOL has expired. Although SOL expiration is an affirmative defense to a lawsuit, as nascar_devil says, they may not bother to file a lawsuit if they know you know the SOL has expired.

One other thing. At the top of CM&P's letter, are there lawyer's names listed? Check your state's bar association website to see if they're licensed in your state. If not, they can't file a lawsuit.

DH

I do believe it's all the same account - unless there is some other mysterious invisible account out there that I don't know about. CM&P's do have lawyer's licensed in our state -I checked the Mo Bar Assoc. website on this.

Why would W&A send me what they considered (I guess) validation and then hand it off to CM&P? Do they do this just to confuse people?

So now I should stop writing to W&A and just deal with CM&P?

I'm sorry for so many questions, I know these guys aren't following the laws though and I'm just trying to make sure I do this stuff correctly.

Thanks

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I do believe it's all the same account - unless there is some other mysterious invisible account out there that I don't know about. CM&P's do have lawyer's licensed in our state -I checked the Mo Bar Assoc. website on this.

Why would W&A send me what they considered (I guess) validation and then hand it off to CM&P? Do they do this just to confuse people?

So now I should stop writing to W&A and just deal with CM&P?

I'm sorry for so many questions, I know these guys aren't following the laws though and I'm just trying to make sure I do this stuff correctly.

Thanks

I can only guess at the reasons for W&A's actions. One guess would be that W&A is not licensed in your state, so the account went to a law firm that is. If that's the case, CM&P's letter was their initial notice in preparation to filing a lawsuit.

In the end, you have to make the decision as to what to do based on what you're comfortable with. I'm going to present options rather than tell you what to do.

If you were sure that W&A was out of the picture, and sure the SOL was expired, I'd recommend writing CM&P to stop contact and that the SOL was expired.

If you're a little less sure, you could play it this way: Write to CM&P that you've been previously contacted by W&A, and ask them if they are taking over from W&A, and if so, you are excersizing your FDCPA rights to dispute and request verification, an accounting of the amount owed, etc. Save the "nuclear option" of the C&D and expired SOL for the next round of communication.

DH

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I can only guess at the reasons for W&A's actions. One guess would be that W&A is not licensed in your state, so the account went to a law firm that is. If that's the case, CM&P's letter was their initial notice in preparation to filing a lawsuit.

In the end, you have to make the decision as to what to do based on what you're comfortable with. I'm going to present options rather than tell you what to do.

If you were sure that W&A was out of the picture, and sure the SOL was expired, I'd recommend writing CM&P to stop contact and that the SOL was expired.

If you're a little less sure, you could play it this way: Write to CM&P that you've been previously contacted by W&A, and ask them if they are taking over from W&A, and if so, you are excersizing your FDCPA rights to dispute and request verification, an accounting of the amount owed, etc. Save the "nuclear option" of the C&D and expired SOL for the next round of communication.

DH

Missed the CM&P post. Based on the statement in their letter, "We may proceed with suit against you without waiting the 30 days if so requested by our client.", I would get a DV out to CM&P first thing Saturday morning. I'm not sure if you should send anything about your previous DV with W&A as I'm not sure if they have any bearing in this matter. Sounds like Palisades now owns the debt and CM&P are collecting for them.

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Nascar_Devil asked:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't threatening suit on a time barred debt a violation?

Here's the quote:

"We may proceed with suit against you without waiting the 30 days if so requested by our client."

Between the word "may" and "if so requested by our client" they've probably covered their a**, while still conveying the threat they desired.

DH

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