Debt Validation Response

[salala04]

I just wanted to clear up something. I sent my DV letter to all the CA I am dealing with. They all responded with printed statements. Two also included my oringal application. None of them have showed any proof that they own the debt or that it has been assigned to them.

From what I read on this site, I am supposed to receive a complete payment history, proof that they own the debt and my oringal signed contract. Now, my question is am I supposed to receive ALL of these or just any of the 3?

Second question: I just realized that the one company that did send me my original signed contract sent after the 30 days of my original letter. They would still be in violation of FDCPA since they did not respond within 30 days and I am in my right to still request the listing be removed?

PLease advise!!

Thanks!

[willingtocope]

No, under the FDCPA, all they're really required to respond with is who the original creditor is, the account number, and the amount. Sounds like they've done that.

And, they're under no obligation to respond to you within 30 days. There's a link to the FDCPA at the top of the page...you might want to read it over. (Not being critical...there's a lot to read on the board here, and its easy to get the wrong impression).

What it boils down to now is that they've sent you what the FDCPA requires. Its now up to you to determine if you want to pay this, or get sued.

If you chose the "pay this", I'd suggest you call the OC and see what you can work out. IMO, its almost never a good idea to pay a CA...those people are just not trustworthy.

If you chose the "get sued", you may have another chance to argue in court that they haven't proved to you that this is your debt.

[Feel violated]

To Salala04,

I am pretty sure you are in error on the last point. By law, you have 30 days from date of contact to send them a Debt Validation request or you lose certain rights under the law. But sadly congress has set no such time limits for CA's to respond. But if you send a timely DV within 30 days, by law, the CA has to cease collections efforts against you until, they send you

a DV response. So in that sense, it behooves the CA to respond quickly so they can legally resume collection. And by the way, that cease collection requirement is one right you lose if you wait 31+ days to send in your DV. ( You can just scroll up to download a copy of the FCRA

and the FDCPA that are the laws governing this )

And you are also correct to make sure the CA's have a right to collect--that is they own the debt or the right to collect it. Did you specifically request that information in the DV letter?

But its far more of a grey area of the law on what they have to show short of court. But you can send a followup DV request requesting proof of ownership and see what happens.

My other comment is that given what they have sent you, which is better than the average

DV because they have contracts and such, your debt is likely fairly newly defaulted. And hence the CA may have paid quite a few dimes on the dollar for the paper, and therefore will try hard to collect.

But for review, there are various classes of ownership for debt.

a. The Original creditor still owns the debt and is collecting it in house. And likely has ready access to the documentation of the debt.

B. The original creditor still owns the debt but is farming it out to collection agency on a contingency and percentage basis. The CA will have some documentation and may have to go back to the OC for the rest.

3. The Original creditor sells the debt outright to a collection agency. The degree of co-operation with the OC thereafter is highly variable. And they may not even have sold

the legal right to collect.

[salala04]

I found the following information in the Debt Validation section on this website:

The Debt Validation Strategy

Send a letter requesting validation to the collection agency

Dispute the collection with the credit bureaus.

Wait 30 days to hear back from the collection agency. Most likely they will not respond or they will respond saying that they received your letter.

Only a letter which includes:

Proof that the collection company owns the debt/or has been assigned the debt,

Complete payment history, starting with the original creditor, and

Copy of the original signed loan agreement or credit card application

is satisfactory.

If they haven't sent you satisfactory proof, send a copy of your receipt for your registered mail, a copy of the first letter you sent and a statement that they have not complied with the FDCPA and are now in violation of the Act. Tell them they need to immediately remove the collection listing from your credit report or you are going to file a lawsuit because they are in violation of the FDCPA, section 809 (.

Wait 15-20 days to hear back after this second letter to the collection agency. They will either remove it or not respond.

If they do provide a contract with a signature from the original creditor showing that you owe the debt, there is one more thing you can try: see if they are legally licensed to collect the debt in your state.

So from this I was under the impression that I had to get the items mentioned or else they were in violation.

Am I totally missing something?

[Feel violated]

To Salala04 who asks what they is being missed.

Its all really contained here---Tell them they need to immediately remove the collection listing from your credit report or you are going to file a lawsuit because they are in violation of the FDCPA, section 809 (.

The point being you might be able to file and win that lawsuit if the documentation sent to you was of very low quality. Which often occurs with junk debt buyers and is really typical of the end stages of debt. And occurs when the OC sells the debt to somewhat reputable CA's who fail to collect. So the reputable CA resells to paper to other less reputable CA's. And as that reselling process is repeated many times, all the original paperwork to prove the debt in court is often totally lost.

And if the paperwork can't be reunited with the debt, then you have a chance of filing a lawsuit against the CRA and winning. Because without ANY paperwork from the CA traceable back to the OC, the CRA is just blindly taking the word of a very dubious CA.

But a quick look at the paperwork you are being supplied basically means you will probably lose such a lawsuit because the preponderance of evidence is with the CRA siding with the CA. And in a civil lawsuit unlike a criminal case, its not innocent until proven guilty, its based on which side has the preponderance of evidence. You may win if the CA has nothing, but probably will not win if the CA has as much as they seemingly do. And what you don't yet know is if they can get even stronger documentation.

I suspect its not what you want to hear, but if you are going to gamble, understanding the odds is recommended.

[willingtocope]

Lots of things tend to get garbled in translation around here, and you need to be careful what you take as gospel.

1. The "Sample Letters" menu item at the top does have a very comprehesive debt validation letter that demands everything but the collectors shoe size. That letter is overkill, and, is does not reflect what the FDCPA qualifies as validation. You may indeed scare away an unsophisticated collector or junk debt buyer with that letter...but...there is no law that says they have to respond. According to the FDCPA (print it out an read it yourself), validation consists of what I said before. There are some FTC opinion letters that expand on that somewhat...but...FTC opinions are not law.

2. When you do send a DV letter to a collection agency (CA), they are under no obligation to respond. Their only obligation is, if they are reporting on your credit reports, then they should mark their tradeline "in dispute". They can then continue to report forever.

3. There is a technique called the "1-2 punch" which you can find references to on the board here. The idea is...you send a DV letter to the CA, wait a few days, and then send a "I dispute this" letter to the credit reporting agencies. The CRAs will then notify the CA that you dispute it. If the CA verifies the debt with the CRA before they validate with you, that is considered "continued collection activity without validating" which is a violation of the FDCPA. Is that enough to sue and win? Don't know...you pays your money and takes your chances.

Is it any clearer now?