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I'm sick...may fail means test for 7


parsoc
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Attny's office just called, we're over the income median for C7...I'm just sick, I thought we were going to be filing this week. She (asst.) waiting for attny to come back from court, will call later this morning...she's hoping she missed something and it can be fixed...ME TOO!! The bottom dropped out of my stomach, I can't believe this glitch at this point....they knew about the income from the beginning, isn't that dealt with FIRST?! I was too upset to ask any questions, needed to calm down.

Thanks for listening (reading :)

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I recall being upset that I did not qualify for Chapter 13 repayment.

Why?

Because I was over the unsecured debt limit. I thought chapter 13 was the only answer at the time as well. That was a little over a year ago.

In retrospect, I'm glad I was over the limit. I'm much more educated about unsecured debt, legal matters, evidence, finances, and life now. So much so, I would have considered a Chapter 13 a big mistake today.

I'm not saying Chapter 7 is not the answer for you, but 1 or 2 years from now, whether you get to file a Chapter 7 or not, you may say to yourself, "I can't believe how worried about a temporary life circumstance I was at that time."

If the ch. 7 falls through, so what? You either take the actions over the next 6 months to qualify, then file the ch. 7 OR just do the ch. 13 OR come up with an alternate plan.

Making yourself sick over it will not move the situation forward. You need to embrace the reality and tackle it and do what needs to be done to roll it in the right direction.

End of sermon.

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Sermon duly noted, thank you!

If I weren't facing a lawsuit (Chase) on Fri I probably wouldn't be so freaky about this...but it looked like it was really going to get done (BK filed) so that Chase would "go away". And facing 5 years of repayment just as we're trying to put away a little more for retirement is not what I thought would happen. And maybe it won't, who knows, "it is what it is"

I'll get out the figures and go over them myself, I was just so ready to be done with this.

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As someone who has 2 lawsuits and 1 arbitration currently...(and NOT planning to declare bankruptcy)

Its not that big of a deal. S**T happens!

If your goal is to eventually file Ch. 7, let them file. Who cares! Let them waste their money and time because your plan seems to be to blow them up in Ch. 7 anyway.

If they file (and chances are good they are blowing sunshine up your posterior to scare you), and you do nothing, they will maybe get a default judgment in a couple months. They still need to wait 30 days in most case to pursue an "in rem" (garnishment or lien) collection action which can take a few months as well. Even if they get that far, all that can be wiped out in a ch. 7.

If they do file, you could answer, (could be as simple as saying "I deny its my debt, If it is my debt, I deny its valid, If it is valid, I dispute the amount owed is correct." on a piece of paper with the proper case format heading for your court) and demand a jury, that will tie them up for at least 6 months. Enough time to plan and get yourself qualified for the Ch. 7.

Getting sued is not this mysterious overwhelming thing. Its not the most fun thing to deal with, but sometimes life circumstances means you may not be able to avoid it.

Don't forget, if you do answer, use my favorite phrase at the end of your answer, "TRIAL BY JURY DEMANDED". If it gets that far, Chase has to bring a witness to prove you owe. Forcing Chase's hand to prove it up, gives you the power upfront in the suit.

The nice thing is, even if it gets that far and the jury says "you owe it". you still can destroy the judgment in a Ch. 7.

Just focus on your plan and deal with what Chase does, when it happens!

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As someone who has 2 lawsuits and 1 arbitration currently...(and NOT planning to declare bankruptcy)

Its not that big of a deal. S**T happens!

If your goal is to eventually file Ch. 7, let them file. Who cares! Let them waste their money and time because your plan seems to be to blow them up in Ch. 7 anyway.

If they file (and chances are good they are blowing sunshine up your posterior to scare you), and you do nothing, they will maybe get a default judgment in a couple months. They still need to wait 30 days in most case to pursue an "in rem" (garnishment or lien) collection action which can take a few months as well. Even if they get that far, all that can be wiped out in a ch. 7.

If they do file, you could answer, (could be as simple as saying "I deny its my debt, If it is my debt, I deny its valid, If it is valid, I dispute the amount owed is correct." on a piece of paper with the proper case format heading for your court) and demand a jury, that will tie them up for at least 6 months. Enough time to plan and get yourself qualified for the Ch. 7.

Getting sued is not this mysterious overwhelming thing. Its not the most fun thing to deal with, but sometimes life circumstances means you may not be able to avoid it.

Don't forget, if you do answer, use my favorite phrase at the end of your answer, "TRIAL BY JURY DEMANDED". If it gets that far, Chase has to bring a witness to prove you owe. Forcing Chase's hand to prove it up, gives you the power upfront in the suit.

The nice thing is, even if it gets that far and the jury says "you owe it". you still can destroy the judgment in a Ch. 7.

Just focus on your plan and deal with what Chase does, when it happens!

There will be no "qualifying" for a 7 for us, I'm afraid; our income is stable and high ($80k)

and so far I can't get the expenses high enough...we're still coming out with $1000 "disposable" net income. I hate that expense worksheet, the categories are SO general..but I'm plugging in everything I can think of, hope to speak to the attny early this week

We want to file before the Chase court date of 3/24....and I don't have the stomach to fight it Trueq....I work in this local court system, I'm in the courthouse almost every day, I know the court personnel....it's just ugly to me. Chase is the OC, it IS my debt....we've made the decision to file, we were just hoping for a "fresh start", not 5 years of indenture! I know the reality won't be as bad as my apprehension, other people have survived!

Thanks for your input

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Attny's office just called, we're over the income median for C7...I'm just sick, I thought we were going to be filing this week. She (asst.) waiting for attny to come back from court, will call later this morning...she's hoping she missed something and it can be fixed...ME TOO!! The bottom dropped out of my stomach, I can't believe this glitch at this point....they knew about the income from the beginning, isn't that dealt with FIRST?! I was too upset to ask any questions, needed to calm down.

Thanks for listening (reading :)

Sadly attorneys are often SCUM. They want to get you "hooked in" to a BK (selling their services), before they tell you it isn't going to happen the way you want.

The means test isn't much help, unless you have a really big family. If the trustee objects to some of the expenses you claimed in the means, as I understand it, you get rejected and have to convert to a CH13.

CL

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Let them sue, fight it, and if the jury eventually renders a judgment, file a 13 at that point. (and chalenge the judgment before its confirmed as a claim.)

Chances are, along the way, you may beat one in court, make them frustrated and give up, or cause the purchase and sale of the debt to lose proper track of you and the debt. (i.e will fail to file a claim in the 13)

If you file a 13 at that point, the re-payment may be much, much less, because the creditor claims may not file in time on debt that may have been sold and assignd many times.

This strategy will put your credit in the toilet for a while.

Its all a matter of how far you want to fight.

I don't reccomend this idea if secured assets are in danger of default! Only if unsecureds are in default. Don't lose your house if you have equity. 13 prevents that. In that case, do the 13 now.

If we are just talking one unsecured creditor, (and you are current on everything else) just settle and negotiate out for 30-50 cents on the $! (with an $80,000 salary a short 6 month arrangment should be doable) ESPECILLY IF YOU PROPERLY ANSWER THE LAWSUIT WITH "TRIAL BY JURY".Most lawyers do not want to bother with a full blown trial, but you need to avoid default judgment! If they get default judgment for full amount, they will not be as willing to deal down on the amount! Being a pain in their side by answering and dragging the case, will give you more settlement leverage at this point!

Forget all this bankruptcy talk altogther then.

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Trueq,

thanks for your input, you sound experienced and knowledgeable....and tenacious! If I were younger or single I might go that path, but alas, neither is true!

My friend, one does not have to be young or single to say NO to taking it up the you-know-where. I am relatively young and not single, and I would fight for my family, financial well-being, livelihood, etc.

What trueQ is saying offering you is a chance to not take it if you don't have to. I don't know your personal situation, other than what I read, but there is nothing that bad that is that bad. You always have options, my friend. Please do not allow this to stress you out.

I recently lost a friend of mine in a similiar situation to a heart attack. He had massive debt up the wazzou. Finanlly his heart couldn't take it anymore....do you see where I'm going with this?

If I may suggest, please write out your issues in the next response. Everything related to the cause of why you need to file Bankruptcy, to your most current dealings. Of course, you do not have to give real names, dates etc. Just some specific details as to why you think BK is the best route. You may see some therapeutic value in this and you may even see a solution to your ills.

Best wishes and it's going to be ok.

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AAAAck!!! wrote long response then hit wrong key somwhere and lost it!!!grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Short version: total of $78k debt (mortgage current but ARM will reset in May), includes $11k on car we want to keep; stable jobs and high income for 2 but heavy commuting costs.

We're ok with BK decision (me more than hubby) we will certainly be better off than before..we also managed almost $700/mo to a debt settlement co. (for $29k) so I know we can do a 13 plan.

We all have to walk our own path but it's nice to know there are folks who will hold our hands when needed!

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What are your assets?

If you have 80K+ in home equity or assets, YOU SHOULD NOT FILE A 13! You will do 100% payback and it may fail at that income level and payment for 60 months.

If this is the case, default and negotiate your unsecureds down for 30-50% on the $ is BETTER THAN 13!

The real problem is that darn ARM reset! You need to get to a fixed mortgage before the 13 or wrecking your credit with a default, negotiate and payoff strategy.

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