Where did my payment go?

[vickinicole]

So I dunno if this was a smart move or not, but starting in february I started sending $20 payments to particular Original Creditors reported to my CR.

including First Premier, 2 HSBC (Orchard, Household), and Sun Health.

Each of those 4 debts are less than $500 but more than $250 and are less than 2 years old but were Charged off or sent to Collections and reporting negatively on my credit report.

I dont have a lump sum of cash to offer a settlement. I did DV them, followed that process, returned validated, etc. etc.. so I started sending $20/month payments to the original creditor of those accounts, ignoring the collections agencies even though the O.C. sent letters informing of what collection agency they sold to.

Again I did not inform the CA or even the OC that I would be making payments, etc.. I just started sending them without notice. So far 2 payments have been sent out to each.

The CA for Sun Health contacted me this month as they hadn't yet recieved the $20 payment for March. I was surprised a CA was contacting me or even knew about the payments as it was sent to the OC. Turned out the OC has cashed it, it cleared my bank account, but it takes 5 days for it to show on my account with them. It's fine, its a medical account, my plan is when the debt gets to around $75 to offer a PFD. Since the CA called me and let me know it takes 5 days to credit to my debt if I send it to the OC and only 1 day if I send it directly to them, I changed the payee address to send it to them directly instead of to the OC.

That's not even my QUESTION, lol, all of the above was just background info. My question is, What do you think has happened to the $20/month I have sent to the other Original Creditors (First Financial, HSBC)? I haven't had any communication with them at all, I'm wondering if they are forwarding the payments to the collection agency? are they just crediting it to my debt?? Curious?

[swirlgirl]

I don't know where your money went. But why are you sending payment without any type of agreement in place? At the best, when it's all paid off, all you'll get is having your TLs listed as "Paid." This won't help you at all. It certainly doesn't guarantee a delete.

[TTigggers]

Why would you send a payment to the OC when they already told you that they sold the account?

[vickinicole]

Why would you send a payment to the OC when they already told you that they sold the account?

my understanding is that if they accept or cash the payment that constitutes some sort of agreement if brought before a court.

[vickinicole]

I don't know where your money went. But why are you sending payment without any type of agreement in place? At the best, when it's all paid off, all you'll get is having your TLs listed as "Paid." This won't help you at all. It certainly doesn't guarantee a delete.

The OC wont make an agreement with me, I refuse to deal with the C.A., so I took my chances with sending the O.C. payments to start paying down the debt.

The debts are mine. I will pay them in full, but

I won't make a final payment unless they agree to a PFD

but

I wont request a PFD till I can afford the payment I request as a payoff amount in the PFD letter whenever I send it, which will be the amount of whatever is left of the debt after I've paid it down over 6 months. They'll get the final payment when they agree to the PFD.

In some ways this is an experiment on my part to see what would happen. I think I asked the question on this board months ago but didn't get a response, so I just decided to go ahead and do it and see what happens.

I'll let you guys know the result of the experiment in 6 months. but was curious if anyone knew the answer to my question in advance.

BTW I stopped sending the payments to First Premier and both HSBC cards this month cause I've decided to follow the Dave Ramsey plan, and I am on Step 2 (debt snowball) . So I combined those 3 payments and am sending it all to Sun Health since that is the smallest bill, to get it paid off quicker. The Sun Health bill will be almost paid in full in 2 months, and then I will request a PFD if they want the final payment.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Wow.

I don’t mean to beat up on you but you’ve done just about everything this site and most of us here would tell you NOT to do.

You can’t pay the original creditor if they aren’t also the CURRENT creditor (if they’ve sold the account they can’t legally accept a penny from you).

Without a written agreement in place you have no agreement – you can’t just start paying someone, even the right someone, and just assume it will work out the way you want it to work out.

You can’t really bypass a CA if the OC has not pulled the account from the CA – OCs / CAs have contracts so if you pay the OC, assuming they do still own the debt, they still have to process it through the CA/give the CA their credit for the money “collected”.

In is very unlikely you’ll be able to negotiate a PFD on a tiny balance – getting a CA/OC to agree to a PFD usually works because their greed comes into play; for $75 they probably won’t care about your PFD offer.

The biggest problem is that you don’t KNOW much of anything (who owns the debt(s), how much your really owe, etc., etc.)

I’d stop paying anybody anything and follow the DV process…know WHO you should be paying and pay nothing until there is something IN WRITING that stipulates every party’s responsibility.

[vickinicole]

Wow.

The biggest problem is that you don’t KNOW much of anything (who owns the debt(s), how much your really owe, etc., etc.)

I’d stop paying anybody anything and follow the DV process…know WHO you should be paying and pay nothing until there is something IN WRITING that stipulates every party’s responsibility.

I know who "supposedly" owns the debt, have pulled all my credit reports, Everyone on the reports have been DV'ed, Followed the proper process, got some things deleted others validated, have gotten my score improved.

I know exactly how much I owe, etc.. have spreadsheets, etc.. CMRR reciepts, etc,.. I know who they WANT me to pay, I just refuse to pay those people. If they want to forward the payments to them, be my guest, the debt still decreases. I just refuse to work with them.

Plenty of people have gotten PFD for amounts less than $75.

I followed the original steps offered on this website, then decided to take a detour as is per my curiosity.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Well, you can "refuse" to deal with whoever you don't want to deal with but the the debt holder doesn't really care who you want to deal with - if they aren't willing (or aren't able) to pull the account back from tha CA then the CA is still going to "handle" the account...still report it...still get their share of your payment. Period.

And if you have no agreement in writing then you have no agreement - their cahsing a check doesn't obligate them to do anyting - it is not an agreement.

But go ahead and take your detours - good luck.

[vickinicole]

Well, you can "refuse" to deal with whoever you don't want to deal with but the the debt holder doesn't really care who you want to deal with - if they aren't willing (or aren't able) to pull the account back from tha CA then the CA is still going to "handle" the account...still report it...still get their share of your payment. Period.

And if you have no agreement in writing then you have no agreement - their cahsing a check doesn't obligate them to do anyting - it is not an agreement.

But go ahead and take your detours - good luck.

Maybe when they see money coming in they might decide to take the account back or maybe they lied about it being turned over to a collection agency seeing as how THEY, the OC, are the ones reporting to my CR,

or maybe they will forward the money on to their collection agency.

Either way in a court of law, it will show I sent them the payments and they accepted them, cashed them. They didnt return it to me. The OC cashing a check with my account number on it is an agreement that I am paying on that account. I would be willing to take that to court, as I have done with a prior landlord who claims we had no agreement but yet he cashed the checks that clearly said RENT on them. I won that case, the courts found that him accepting and cashing the checks with my account on them was in itself an agreement. We didn't need a lease or verbal agreement.

I will only ever (unless ordered by court) send money to the people/company I had a contract with. If those people/companies decide to send the payment on to a agency they have contracted with, that is their business. My business is with the OC.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Maybe they'll do this and maybe they'll do that but I guess you've got it figured out - good luck with it.

[vickinicole]

Maybe they'll do this and maybe they'll do that but hey, I guess you've got it all figured out - good luck with it.

won't know for sure till they do whatever they are going to do

Can't say I have it ALL figured out, I wouldn't have to conduct this experiment if I was sure of the outcome, that was half the point of doing this.

[TTigggers]

I think killing your hopes of a PFD.

The only reason the PFD works is if you are refusing to pay unless they delete the TL sometimes this can go on for years.

You need to be persistent on not paying until they agree to delete.

By paying them now without an agreement you are telling them you are willing to pay 1 way or another.

If I were you I would save up the money(what you are paying now) and offer a full payment for a PFD this would give you much more leverage.

Yes people have had luck with small dollar PFD's but usually that small dollar amount has been the same for years and the creditor or CA gets told if you want it paid delete the TL.

If your plan is to pay it down to $75.00 and ask for a PFD you should just forget the PFD and pay the whole thing off then work at getting it removed thru Disputes and Goodwill Letters.

[IHateCAs]

Sweet Jesus.

[vickinicole]

Yea I agree with you

I'm going to do the former with the HSBC accounts since they are bouncing around to collection agents, I found out, through investigations through my bank who is tracking the payments I sent, that HSBC sold to First Financial who outsourced to Empire Solutions on one account and to Recievables Performance Management on another account. When I have saved up $800, I will offer them each $400 to settle the accounts since that is the orignal amount I owed HSBC, I won't pay the collection agency's inflated interest charges (almost$300 just in interest) and I will only settle if ALL of the companies who are reporting on my CR (HSBC, RPM) agree that the debt is settled and agree to remove the account from my credit reports. If they ALL (especially HSBC) don't agree, I will send them a **** OFF AND DIE letter and they will have to take me to court and get a judgement against me, to get paid. Period. I don't feel a moral obligation to the CA, although I feel some obligation to the OC and am willing to pay what I rightfully owe. Empire isnt reporting on my CR, and all of the CRA's actually deleted RPM when I DV'd because RPM cannot prove I have an account with them (because I don't). So now only HSBC is reporting on my CR.

The First Premier account told me that I was found not liable, and it will come off my report soon and she said they will send out a letter to me stating this, dated today so i can send it to the CR if it doesnt come off my report immediately.

The Medical Account I will do the latter but I am going to pay until I owe $95 and before I send the $95 I am going to ask nicely for them to delete the account from my CR in exchange for the final payment and just see what they say. They are being VERY reasonable with me and I also feel the hospital and Dr's should be paid for their services to me, so morally I do feel an obligation to them.

that will pretty much take care of everything on my CR's (except student loans but those are in good standing) unless i get judgements for some older accounts that are scheduled to fall off this year due to SOL.

Hopefully in 6 months my CR will be free of all debts and collection agency's and at that time when everything is paid off I will put all the money I am currently using to pay those debts towards my car note so it can be paid off early. I am on the Dave Ramsey, GET DEBT FREE plan, trying to do the debt snowball. Once the car is paid off, I will use that combined money total of $441 [car payment ($275), and the debt payments ($166) = $441] to start paying down my student loans even though I am still in college and am not obligated to do so until I graduate. I owe about $45,000 in student loans currently, If I can start paying that down in 2 years then I should be debt free, with a great credit score, in 6 years when I recieve my Ph.D.

I think killing your hopes of a PFD.

The only reason the PFD works is if you are refusing to pay unless they delete the TL sometimes this can go on for years.

You need to be persistent on not paying until they agree to delete.

By paying them now without an agreement you are telling them you are willing to pay 1 way or another.

If I were you I would save up the money(what you are paying now) and offer a full payment for a PFD this would give you much more leverage.

Yes people have had luck with small dollar PFD's but usually that small dollar amount has been the same for years and the creditor or CA gets told if you want it paid delete the TL.

If your plan is to pay it down to $75.00 and ask for a PFD you should just forget the PFD and pay the whole thing off then work at getting it removed thru Disputes and Goodwill Letters.

[BTO429]

You are HOPING, and hope does not work with a CA. Stop payments, or just throw money away, get an agreement in writing, NOT on the phone, DO NOT call them. Listen and follow what people tell you in here, we have been dealing with this stuff for years. I am new in this board and ask a lot of questions, but I have been doing this for me and my friends for years. I should start charging them lol.

If you listen and do what the people here suggest you will be better off, you can NOT assume anything. as we say in the Marine Corps, assumption is the mother of all F$#@ ups.

GET IT IN WRITING

If you go to court with no documents its called hearsay, i.e. he said she said, and a judge wont listen to it.