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Validation period


tarbaby
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I've looked everywhere and can't find the answer. If a CA said they sent you a letter years ago and you never disputed...so you are out of luck...are you out of luck? The address they gave that the notice went to was never my address. They say they don't have to validate. And they want me to prove its not mine. Anyway...Do they still have to validate in the 30 day timeframe?

they are licensed to collect in NC..but they do not have the lic/permit number on their letters. Is that worth anything levrg wise?

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this is what they sent me regarding my dv..

We are in receipt of your recent correspondence concerning the account listed above. Under The Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), Section 623(a) (15 USC 1681s-2), this dispute is substantially the same as a dispute you previously submitted.

In order for us to take further action, we must have from you the information required under 623(a)(8)(D). Specifically, identify the specific information that is being disputed, explain the basis for the dispute and include all supporting documentation to substantiate the basis of the dispute. Pending receipt of this information, we have advised the credit bureaus to which we report that this account is disputed.

This office is required to make the following statement on any/all communications: This is an attempt to collect a debt and any in formation obtained will be used for that purpose. This communication was sent by a debt collector.

Sincerely,

Credit Collection Services

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I've looked everywhere and can't find the answer. If a CA said they sent you a letter years ago and you never disputed...so you are out of luck...are you out of luck? The address they gave that the notice went to was never my address. They say they don't have to validate. And they want me to prove its not mine. Anyway...Do they still have to validate in the 30 day timeframe?

First, my interpretation of the FDCPA is that if your dispute is untimely, the result is not "they don't have to validate," the result is they don't have to cease their other collection activities. They have "assumed the debt is valid", but IMHO that assumption now comes to an end with your DV, even if untimely.

Second, they never had a 30 day timeframe in which they had to validate. The 30 days is for you to respond with a DV. If you do (a timely DV), then they must stop collection activities until they provide validation. But they can take forever, or never and sell it off.

Maybe your second post isn't the complete text of their letter, but I don't see some of the things you mention in your first post: claiming they already sent you a letter, claiming they don't have to validate, etc. In fact, it almost seems they are acknowledging your right to DV: they say they are advising the credit bureaus of the dispute.

Bear in mind I haven't looked up Section 623(a) (15 USC 1681s-2), of the FCRA, but here's what I would do, assuming your second post is just omitting some of the things you said in your first post:

- Tell them their first letter was sent to an address that was never yours therefore,

- their letter of [date] was their first communication with you, therefore,

- you have exercised your rights under the FDCPA to dispute and request validation

- go ahead and list specifically what you dispute, but you are not obligated to provide them with "supporting documentation".

Good luck

DH

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they told me over the phone that since i didn't dispute the collection in 2002 then they do not have to validate now. they didn't say it in a letter. both letters said about the same thing. and the manager said during the phone conversation that i needed to send documentation. 623(a)(8)(D) does say something about documentation. this will drop off next year anyway. but i'm wanting to get a mortgage soon so i'm trying to get if off my reports.

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To tarbaby,

What I see is a substantially different version of events or some sort of an indefensible form letter on part of the CA.

The first sentence of the CA reply is---------We are in receipt of your recent correspondence concerning the account listed above. Under The Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), Section 623(a) (15 USC 1681s-2), this dispute is substantially the same as a dispute you previously submitted. ( please note the you previously submitted )

Their version of events seems to be that you replied to their previous letter yo many years ago and replied to it. Your version seems to be that you never received a previous letter. One version or the other is incorrect.

But actually their version is more favorable to you, you simply point out that they are supposed to provide you the real debt validation that they have never sent you. And once you have the proper debt validation in hand, then you might have something to go on regarding their FCRA request. As it is, you have no idea about what they are talking about and now wonder why they have taken so many years to do nothing about sending the proper debt validation. And only now by their own admission they are only now marking the account in dispute which is a de facto admission they violated the law.

At a minimum, that should slow then down some as they fall all over themselves eating their own words.

Or alternately, you can dispute the fact that you were ever given previous notice yo many years ago.

It still boils down to them eating their words. And for that matter what is the North Carolina SOL on this they probably slept through. As it is, you probably have all the leverage if its past State suing SOL. PFD on your favorable trems or they can eat it in a few months. They don't have to know you really want this off your credit now.

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I disputing the trade line.

Then in that case, as I understand FCRA (and I certainly do not claim to be an expert on the FCRA), the information reporter has the right to/and the consumer has the responsibility to state what specifically is being disputed and to offer some evidence to support the dispute.

Now I would expect that what is being disputed has a lot to do with what evidence, if any, can be presented by the consumer...for example...

If you claim the account is not yours/you have had such an account then at least in most cases, it's almost impossible to "prove" the account isn't your account (by the very claim you are saying you have nothing to show the account is your account).

On the other hand, if you claim that the DOFMD is X and they are reporting Y then it would be reasonable for the consumer to have some evidence to support the claim).

Also, the "thirty-day timeline" is really a non-issue here...the issue is that they can't validate to the bureau that the tradeline is correct while concurrently refusing to provide evidence of same to you - that, as I understand it, is a big violation of FCRA.

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it all started at the end of last month when i disputed with cra. it was verified according to the cra and i recv'd the first letter from the ca that read just like the one i posted here. i sent them a dv stating exactly what i was disputing. they sent me the second letter. so what should i do now?

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Perhaps someone with more experience with this process will step in here – I’m not experienced because I don’t get into the “cleaning” my credit report stuff.

However, as I understand the process/theory, the consumer disputes the tradeline with the CRA and then, shortly after, requests validation from the information reporter (assuming it’s a CA/third-party collector).

The theory goes that, regardless of whether you ever requested validation before or not and/or “timely” or not, the information furnisher cannot legally verity the information with the credit bureaus AND concurrently deny validating to the consumer – if they do that, they’ve violated the FCRA and you can eventually force them to remove the tradeline.

However, as I read the FCRA, when a consumer disputes a tradeline, they have a responsibility to both explain what they dispute AND to supply evidence to support their dispute.

So…the best I can tell you is that if you haven’t done both that may be the problem. If you have no evidence to support your dispute than they may well be able to dismiss your claims.

Again, I’m far from and expert on this end of things so perhaps someone else will jump in…I also suspect there are plenty of both sticky and non-sticky posts about this as well.

I wish I could be more helpful!

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the supporting documentation is what gets me. if its not my account then what documents do i need to prove its not my account? odd. :?

How about explaining that you can't provide documentation that it isn't your account because it isn't your account and that they have not provided anyting to you that you can respoind to othern than an assertion!

You can also state that you will be happy to review whatever information they DO have and from that, you might then be able to provide some documentation.

For example, it they provide a contract bearing an SSN different than your own or bearing a name where the middle name is different, then you could provide some additional evidence to show that this isn't your account.

Bottom line however is that that the only reasonable, in fact the only possible response to an unsubstantiated assertion is an unsubstantiated counter-assertion.

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I agree with Robert. You might also add a line about the fact that they are reporting an address that is not/nor has it ever been somewhere you live and you can prove said discrepancy; hence you have even further cause to assume that this debt does not belong to you.

So is it actually not yours? What kind of debt is it? Just asking because there may be other ways to argue that it's not yours.

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Here's what I've done and recv'd so far. Any suggestions on what to do next?

Steps:

1- disputed with CRA. Came back "verified". On my cr is says "Account information disputed by consumer, meets FCRA requirements.

2- DV'd the CA. Got a letter letter. They don't have my states permit number on it..but they are legal to collect. I checked. Anyway here it is.:

We are in receipt of your recent correspondence concerning the account listed above. Under The Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), Section 623(a) (15 USC 1681s-2), this dispute is substantially the same as a dispute you previously submitted.

In order for us to take further action, we must have from you the information required under 623(a)(8)(D). Specifically, identify the specific information that is being disputed, explain the basis for the dispute and include all supporting documentation to substantiate the basis of the dispute. Pending receipt of this information, we have advised the credit bureaus to which we report that this account is disputed.

This office is required to make the following statement on any/all communications: This is an attempt to collect a debt and any in formation obtained will be used for that purpose. This communication was sent by a debt collector.

Sincerely,

Credit Collection Services

3. So I dv'd them AGAIN saying about the same thing but more specific proof.

4. Got the SAME letter as the one above. The one above is the second letter. Don't have the first one with me. But they are worded the same.

5. Sent email to TU disputing. Here's my email:

I have been forwarded your contact information from the NC State Attorney Generals office. I hope you can help me resolve an ongoing issue I have with my Transunion credit report and Credit Collections Service (CCS). My name is *** ***and the last four of my social are ***. I am referencing my Transunion report number **********. I have an erroneous entry on my report. The Item name is "Credit Collection Servic" account number shown is *********. I have attempted to contact this collection agency numerous times to get this resolved but they refuse to provide the information I have requested. According to Ross Adams at CCS, the account information is not available. According to Progressive Insurance, the original "creditor" they only keep information in the system for three years. This account is six years old according to my report. I have tried to get this resolved with Transunion several times. I have sent several different letters, phoned and submitted an online dispute to no avail. Transunions response each time is that the account is "Disputed by Consumer", no action taken. As of today the account reads "Account information disputed by consumer, meets FCRA requirements". My dispute with Transunion came back "verified". How was the account "verified" if the collection agency does not have ANY account information? The only information the collection agency has is an address that is not mine. The state of NC requires all collection agencies to be licensed and bonded. And they require the agency to have their permit number on any letters sent to consumers. CCS did not have that information on the letter sent to me. They refused to give the permit information to me when I spoke to Mr. Adams. I have followed all the rules to disputing the erroneous account on my credit report. I have received no verification/validation of the debt, yet it remains on my credit report. I am at a loss at what to do to resolve this. I wanted to contact you as a last ditch effort, so to speak, before I am forced to pursue resolution through litigation. Any help would be much appreciated.

So today I got this email back from TU:

I have researched your previous dispute (opened 01/07/08 closed 01/30/08) with TransUnion, as well as contacted the collection agency in questions directly to verify the debt that is listed on your report. Unfortunately, in both instances, the collection agency verified to TransUnion that the debt belong to your name, address and SSN.

At this point my suggestion would be to contact the agency by phone to try to determine why this debt is listed against you if it is not yours. If, after speaking to them, they agree that the debt is incorrectly placed, I will be more than happy to discuss the matter with you again.

If you have any other questions or concerns, please do not hesitate in contacting me directly at 312-985-2731.

Sean Walker

So what is one to do?? :confused:

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  • 1 month later...

A complaint to the NCDOI got their attention. They sent a poor excuse for a validation. Well..they called it "verification". Anyway here's what they said and then what they sent:

Ms Tarbaby: We have completed our investigation under the FCRA and determined that the information that we reported is accurate. However, we have advised the credit bureaus to which we report that this account is disputed. Enclosed please find verification of this debt from our client. Please be advised that we are in the process of responding to the NCDOI regarding the concerns raised in your complaint to that agency. We trust this resolves your concerns.

here's the "verification" they sent on Progressives letterhead:

We have received your inquiry about the billing and payment history for the policy shown above. This policy canceled on 05/03/02. For your convenience, a summary of the billing and payment history is shown below.

$1851.84 Original policy premium

$3752.00 Misc. adjustment (refund to account)

$5.00 Installment fee

________________________________________________

$5608.84 Total Premium and charges due

$738.40 Cancellation credit - unearned premium

_________________________________________________

$4870.44

I didn't ask for "verification" I asked for "validation" if that matters. I don't think this is enough. I thought refunds were a positive not a negative?? The account will fall off my reports 03/09 according to TU..but I want it gone now since it's not mine...:evil:

Any suggestions? Since it's that old is it hurting my score as much as a new collection would?

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A complaint to the NCDOI got their attention. They sent a poor excuse for a validation. Well..they called it "verification". Anyway here's what they said and then what they sent:

here's the "verification" they sent on Progressives letterhead:

I didn't ask for "verification" I asked for "validation" if that matters. I don't think this is enough. I thought refunds were a positive not a negative?? The account will fall off my reports 03/09 according to TU..but I want it gone now since it's not mine...:evil:

Any suggestions? Since it's that old is it hurting my score as much as a new collection would?

If it's not yours then is it ID Theft? FTC affadavit and police report and be done with it.

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ok. I'll do that and report back what happens. Here is what I'm sending to the CA also. Should I add or take out anything? What would the time limit be for them to respond or remove the account?

To Whom It May Concern:

I am in receipt of your letter dated May 2, 2008. The information you have provided from Progressive is insufficient and is not what I asked for from your company several times. How does this prove that this debt belongs to me? I do not see my signature here. Nor do I see any other information that would suggest the debt is mine. My name on a piece of paper does not make prove a debt is mine. Perhaps I have been the victim of identity theft or fraud. I can certainly create similar documents on my computer, send them to your company and claim that you owe me money. Would that prove anything? Placing a notation on my credit report as “disputed” does nothing. It is still a negative mark on my credit for an account that is not mine and has not been proven to be mine. You call this generic piece of paper a “summary of billing and payment history”. There is not one payment date on it. Nor is there a method of payment. The paper also lists $3752 as “refund to account”. So if it’s a refund then I should be the one you and your client owe money to. It doesn’t give a description of what that “refund” is even for.

You have failed to prove this account is mine. I have documented my correspondence with you, and I have filed complaints with the appropriate authorities. If you do not remove this item from my credit report immediately I will be forced to file suit due to the violations and hardships you have caused. Further, if I find this entry on my credit report later interferes with my ability to obtain credit with favorable terms, I will bring suit against your company and the original creditor for applicable damages, as well as for statutory penalties provided under the FDCPA and FCRA.

This will serve as your legal notice under provisions of federal law, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), to cease all collection activity and communication with me in regard to the debt referenced above. If you fail to heed this notice, I will file a formal complaint against you with the Federal Trade Commission who is responsible for enforcement.

You are also notified that should any adverse information be placed against my credit report as a result of this notice that appropriate actions will be taken. Give this very important matter the attention it deserves.

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ok. I'll do that and report back what happens. Here is what I'm sending to the CA also. Should I add or take out anything? What would the time limit be for them to respond or remove the account?

I would remove the "Perhaps I have been a victim....." and change it to something like:

"As I have never had insurance thru Progressive I can only conclude that my ID has been compromised. Enclosed please find a copy of the FTC ID theft affadavit and a copy of the police report......"

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