Is this voidjudgement.net for real?

[Happy]

I was just wondering if this was anything people are using to void judgements or is this the same as those people who say income taxes don't have to be paid either?

Anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks

[trueq]

The theory is that you can void a judgment if proper rules were not followed.

For example, if a default judgment was rendered against you with no service, witness, or evidence because you failed to show...you can move to vacate the judgment as void. The law of voids vary by state, check your state law!

If the debt can't be proved by the court record or evidence submitted by a witness, the judgment is void.

The Helm Society is a pro se legal education organization. Richard Cornforth is their primary legal researcher and mind on this.

One of the examples they use for a successful vacation of a void judgment was a group of citzens in Arizona (I may have the state wrong) with a $6 million summary judgment against them. In that case, the judgment was issued as "jointly and severably liable". In Arizona that is not legal. Judgments can only be issued for individual liability. (Judge should have issued a separate one for each person.)

The judgment was "void" because the judge did not follow the law. It was vacated.

I've never had a judgment, so I can't tell you if this "void judgment" stuff works. I may get rung up on a summary judgment in 2 weeks by a jerk judge ignoring all rules of evidence and consumer law in WI.

I can tell you that some of tips and materials on the Helm school site has caused me to go 3 & 0 in court on cases so far. Although I may taste loss for the first time on a judge that does not adhere to rules of evidence and allows attorneys to testify! So nothing is a sure thing! (Not much you can do about a bad judge bent on ringing you up on summary judgment, although he's taking 30 days to think about it. Everyone else in court was getting rung up on summary or default that day, even people with alleged defense attorneys! So I still consider it a win if you cause a bad judge to pause for 30 days!)

If SJ happens, I will be testing this "void judgment" theory. I'll take every shot I get. However, at the point of judgment , burden of proof shifts to you and its an uphill battle. Don't take judgments, if you can help it!

Just my thoughts. Either way I've won, I've pissed off every scummy collection attorney I've ever met and possibly a judge! Victory is mine either way!!!!

I am also inspired by a Wall Street Journal article I just read where a pro se' litigant held off foreclosure of his home for 11 years!! He lived rent/mortgage free for 11 years! He just lost it and is appealing! New owner is nervous he will have to give the home back! (12/28/07 article) I'll try and post the article.

EDIT: (article link)http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119881051300654741.html

If someone can do that, I certainly can beat a lousy unsecured credit card summary judgment with no witness, if that were to occur!

[Happy]

Thanks for the input.

I wonder if there are any attorneys who specialize in this type of thing or do you have to do it yourself?

[Amerikaner83]

I think finding an attorney to "talk things over with you" would be free..... perhaps from www.naca.net ?

[TTigggers]

I think finding an attorney to "talk things over with you" would be free..... perhaps from www.naca.net ?

Now there you go making sense again!!

How dare you!!

[Amerikaner83]

I've been accused of making sense here only a time or two

[Recovering Attorney]

and I hope whatever you do for a living you do for free cuz someone asks.

[swirlgirl]

I think most attorneys will hear you out for free and tell you if you have a case or not. But you should expect the conversation to turn towards "dollars and cents" in short order. Don't expect any advice given to be free.

[trueq]

Feel free to write the brief and have him review it. Take tips, and augment, at that point, present it to the court and make the hearing appearance on your own. It shouldn't cost more than $100 to get a brief reviewed with edits and legal suggestions.

Just because you hire an attorney doesn't mean you can't be pro se in the court appearance. Having the attorney come to court is where lawyer fees really add up!

Most lawyers PROBABLY DO NOT HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH THIS. This void judgment thing seems to have really picked up and caught fire in the pro se' litigation movement the last few years.

(I forgot to mention, the Helm site its not the same people who tell you not to pay your taxes, although they do have tips on fighting tax judgments in the same context we talk about void judgments. Its really just common sense, make the court adhere to the rules of evidence type stuff, just like that guy who fought his mortgage forclosure for 11 years)

(I will post another article in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel this A.M. Guy walked away with his 1.5 mil mortgage! Bank could not produce the original note! 1.5 million! I can't help but wonder if he picked this up fom this very same site? Its goes to one of the basic things being thaught in the pro se legal movement, make them prove up the debt!)

So its not "gold fringed flag" nonsense or anything.

[merkurfan]

I've been accused of making sense here only a time or two

I make cents all the time. it's the dollars I am after.

The site in referance sound like a scam to me.

[Happy]

I didn't think that this site was the same people as those who say you don't have to pay taxes.

I was just wondering if it is like that for example, you can read all about how you don't have to pay taxes and it is all very convincing, yet, if you don't pay taxes, you will probably go to jail or at least they will take any assets you ever acquire.

So, I was wondering if this void judgement information is really being used successfully or is it just theoritical yet when used in the real world, gets you in trouble.

Logically, it makes sense that someone should have to prove a debt and that people shouldn't be able to get judgements against you just because you weren't served and didn't show up but it seems that happens all the time.

[trueq]

I also had my doubts about "void judgment" legal strategy.

But I did talk to some high powered lawyers (meaning they are paid $400+/hour) during a class arbitration deposition I was doing and they all agreed that void judgments is an actual legal idea codified in laws in most states. These lawyers never did one (not their specialty), but they told me they know that judgments are "voided all the time" for various reasons.

The lawyers did comment that it would make more sense for a pro se' litigant to use it because much like defending on debt you may be guilty of, most people don't know the proper rules wern't followed on many judgments and they don't feel like they can fight it. So the idea of paying an attorney to do this only really happens in the big cases, which leaves most consumer judgments out.

It made sense to me.

If needed, I will be testing the theory. One twist on it, that I've also picked up is if you don't get the judgment voided, you can file a Ch. 13 and challenge the judgment as void as well when the particular creditor with the judgment files a 13 claim. Once done, purposely dismiss the 13. I haven't investigated that option, but heard the idea has been done.

So just because there is a judgment, there always seems to be options.

Remember, that guy "court paper hurricaned" his house from foreclosure for 11 years!