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If You Are Afraid Please Read My Story

Gettin_out of_Debt

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I have read the wonderful suggewstions on this board for over a year & just got the courage to past recently. I have been where you are. I hope that in some way what I say will make your day a little better there is HOPE & you can do it.

To make this Long story shorter I will just give you the basics and under a legal agreement there is just so much I can say.

My son got an old credit card I had canceled by phone & ran up a bill for $6k. The company got sold 3 times. I never checked my credit before I have a house had bought a new car got good interest rates and did not know of any problem. Them boom on night my wife got a call from a CA and he told her that if he did not get 1/2 the monies by in the morning at 10am he would take our house (she was NEVER on the old card at any time).

Like any man ticked off about someone upsetting his wife I called back the guy cussed me out and called me a dead beat said he would send someone down here to kick my ***.

That is when I started looking for help. I sent a C&D letter very simple the on on the Clark Howard site.

The CA called my neighbors, my parents ( I am old), my sister, fould out my cell number and called it numerous times he left messages on my machine stating that it was set for ha "hearing " the next day **note: he could call twice in a day and have 2 different times this hearing was suppose to happen.

I was watching TV and a commercial came on for The Morgan & Morgan Law Group ( forthepeople.com ) saying they could help with abusive creditors. I had read a book on John Morgan who started the firm Morgan Colin & Gilbert and his story was inspiring I turly felt like this is a good guy.

I saved all recdorded messages< I logged very call, I got statements from my family & frieds of exactly was was said. then I retained the firm.

I will tell you at that the first thing they did was stop the CA from calling at once, then I was some what put back because my lawyer was questioning me like he represented the CA. He just waned to make sure I was ready for what lay ahead.

I took a year and I would get a call or correspondence every 3 to 4 months.

The CA just settled for ha huge and I mean Huge sum. I had to sign an agreement to keeep my mouth shut. I filed 4 compalints with the FTC they did nothing until Senator Bill Nelson helped me. ( I was a repubilcan until this but Mel Martenez was no help) I will remember in November.

I filed with the BBB it was a joke to but do it any way. I filed a complaint with the States Atty Gen but they won't do anything until they get hundreds of complaints..

Last year I started working the Dave Ramsey Plan got the book the Total Money Makeover and it really, really works, not counting the settlement I am debt FREE except my house & will will have it done in 2 years.

The whole economy of the Great Country is run on debt. This is the way we are teaching our children and it has just got to stop.

My nieghbor has a pit bull one the the friendliest dog I have ever seen but I stay away ya never know when it will turn..

I am going to close but just remeber this:

Stay Calm

Others have been there before you & will help


Hire a Great Lawyer

God Bless you all for the help you give others like me.

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I always enjoy hearing stories like this. It does show that we can fight and win. I am going to add to a comment made by the OP, kind of a history lesson for all of you.

This country is run on credit. The US has been bankrupt since the 30's. They do not want you to know this, but, it is true. All you need to do is do your homework. Many of you will be shocked at what you will find. We are owned by the World Banks. As an example, read the different consumer laws, supposedly supported by consumer advocates. You will find that the majority of them contain so many safeguards for the creditors, you have no chance, unless, as noted by the OP, have proper counsel. Most of we "older" members know how the FTC works. It is just as the OP noted regarding the AG. They only react to the violators who create a large pile, before they act. A complaint here and one there only places the complaint in the file, no where else. Are you aware that you, as it stands now, can never pay your debts, at law?

Another example for you. Many of you think the UCC is a real law. It is not. It is a "colorable" law as there is no substance. It was written in the 30's to protect the "banks and creditors" and to allow them to bring you before a court of Equity Law. Not counting the fact as to covering their actions regarding the "money" used today. Read the bill in your wallet. It is not money as written and described in the US Code. Another thought, read UCC 1-207, for example. Remember, the constitution says that your rights can never be denied. If not true, then why would this section, as well as others, be included in the UCC. It is very deep and does require alot of reading. There are two Supreme Court Cases that can show what I mean. Both are similar, but the decisions are opposite. The first is Swift v. Tyson in 1840. The latter is Erie Railroad v. Thompson in 1938. Erie was decided on "Negotiable Instruments" law while Swift was on the Common Law, or Natural Law.

To use these you would have to know and understand them. By this, if you were served to appear in court for a debt, and noted on your answer "without prejudice, UCC 1-207", for example, you must know the whole of this before you even think of trying it. As to what this would mean if you did, it simply means you, in short words, do not recognize a court of equity law, but, only a court of common law, and demand your constitutional right to a trial by a jury of your peers. Then, you would have to go to procedures, etc., to assure it is free and speedy, blah, blah. Sorry, it is too deep to try and cover all here. But, to give you some insight, type the name "Howard Freeman" into your address and go. On the "generic" page, scroll down to the title "Supreme Law Library". Read through. It is good read. You can go to your bookstores and ask for books on "Common Law". According to the one here, they show 4 or 5 available on this subject. I've only read one so far by "Dale Pond, Howard Fisher, Richard Knutson, and the North American Freedom Council", which included some writings of Freeman. I intend to get others to read and cross back to see how they relate to each other. I have gone so far as to note their references, go to the specific, and read. So far, all was correct. Why is that we all know that by changing, adding, or deleting, even one word, we can alter the whole theme of a sentence.

And, I know of someone who has used these laws on other matters in court, and won.

Also, Mr. Freeman has not paid the IRS for years and they leave him alone.

Lastly, if you will remember and follow these items, you will never go wrong.

1. There is no such thing as an honest politician.

2. Congress is the best money can buy. Actually, any elected official. You doubt, then,

read each voting record of your official, then read through their list of contributors. Be sure and be sitting down for this one.

3. The major news media is your worst enemy.

4. A new addition to the list. The ACLU is your second worst enemy.

Here is an example. The end of March last year, Sen. Feinstein of California abruptly removed herself from the Military Construction Committee because word leaked out that would result in a "Conflict of Interest". Remember, she spoke out about Cheney and Haliburton. Since 1997, she had been signing, and having signed, military contracts for her husband's construction company. And, the major news media said not a word. WHY?

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Congrats to the OP!

I was stuck in a fog of the "Debtors Anonymous" program when I found all the legit consumer boards like this. DA is a really good place to start, but there comes a time when you need to get back on the offensive and also understand which older debts you shouldn't pay.

Like retmar, I read a lot about the quagmire that is the credit industry and the federal reserve and all that crap. A lot of the stuff you read is just wacko conspiracy theories, but understanding the concept is critical.

Getting out of debt and staying out is a huge amount of power for people these days. Secured debt like home and car payments used to be just fine, but even that is becoming a fiasco.

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The short version to the whole matter is that our wonderful, ever-caring, elected officials, from top to bottom sold us out to the highest bidder.

Another little trivia for you. As we all know, the highest elected offical in our county is the Sheriff. He swears to uphold the Constitution. Yet, he allows his deputies, meaning he is involved in the process, and authorizes, his deputies force you out of your home due to a foreclosure. With courts involving debt being under Equity Law, where the constitution is ignored, unless demanded by you, how is this legal, and lawful? It isn't as you were convicted without a trial with a jury of your peers. Sheriff's sales are unconstituional.

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Now you see why this whole matter is so confusing and mind boggling. The reason it is done today, is due to how we, as consumers, do not understand ALL of the laws written. Look at the collection laws and how all of us reacted when we received our first letter from a CA. We saw the references to laws, assumed all was proper, and got screwed. If we allow the foreclosure process to proceed without protecting our constitutional rights, we have allowed them to do so. Now, if you reserved your rights, went to a court of common law, with a jury of your peers, and jury agrees that you reneged on your obligation, then, yes, the sale is now within the constitution. All because the decision of the jury was found under the Common Law, or, the law of the people. Do realize that who, in their right mind, knowing they failed to pay, would want to do this, as it will only drag it out. True, if it was me, and I had proof the lender erred in their process, or by their own actions, caused a "breach" of sorts, then, yes, I would take it this far so as to protect myself, especially if it meant I could keep my home, and had forced the lender into a new contract, or, an amicable resolve.

There is a site who offers the information to chase away lenders by your suing them for fraud, whatever. They want $200 for this info. Claim it works. I had thought, since it offers a full money back policy, to buy it and see what it is. Curiosity kills the cat, right? Haven't done so yet. Mainly, I don't want to get into something that may be illegal, as a whole.

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I Really want to Thank You and the many other who shine a light in the darkness & help others. I dont mean to sound mystical but we are all going to leave this earth some day, HOW did You leave it? Did your life mean something besides what you wanted?

That is waht I see in the people on this site always wanting to help ( some are smarty pants and some are collectors).

I have read a lot of stuff & I know what works for me.

Some Posts really dig on Dave Ramsey & anyone who listens to him must be in a cult?

When I find a better way I will follow it & pass it on but over my lifetime I have been out of consumer debt only 4 times, we pay everything off then charge 'em back up again.

Everyone just listen to this one thing "PAY YOURSELF FIRST" I know it is tough really really tough but at one time I had 3 house payments (moved with job) and we lived on potato soup, but made it. All those BIG buildings ( the biggest ones in your town) are owned by the Slave Master Monster Mega Banks. Put a stop to it NOW!

retmar is absolutely RIGHT -- IF THE POLITICIANS WERE GOING TO HELP YOU--The stupid banking laws would be very different, but like sheep going to the slaughter we follow along because we need something now. Heck I remember when there WERE NO CREDIT CARDS--THINK OF THAT?

Look I know that Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors for a reason, what I am saying will never fit with some of you, but just think about it before you buy---anything!

If you are 2 young to remember Watergate, the rent "All the Presidents Men" how they broke the case was by "FOLLOWING THE MONEY".



I DON'T KNOW IF WE WILL EVER FIND A LEADER WHO WILL BREAK THE CYCLE IN MY LIFETIME BUT- All you younger folks need to get involved, you ask really smart questions and you have that passion needed to change things.


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OP could be in Jax too. We get Morgan and Morgan commercials here too.

I also had a similar experience with the politicians. My son was having MAJOR challenges with the US Army. Senator Nelson was a HUGE help and Martinez did nothing. With Senator Nelson's help my son got a relatively favorable discharge and will be enlisting in the FLANG which would not have happened without Senator Nelson!

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I read a lot of frightening encounters all over the web that people have with these collection companies. The Bluff is their biggest gun, but they don't really know how to shoot.

Your head can go spinning do this do that & if it is not just right and by a certian time you could really be hurt.

The collector is counting on your emotions to rule your actions in fact if they can make you mad then they will celebrate it over & over and get bolder & bolder.

The real problem is that 95% of the people will let them get away with it that YOU do not have the resourses to combat these folks.Whenyou read the law it says you Could get $1,000 max , well that is per violation and it is is your right to have a jury trial where puntitive damadages can be awarded, so lets look at it this way fo a minute:

14 different violations of FDCPA at $1k = $14,000

actual damadges- emotional distress ect- $10,000

puntitive damadges ( juriors are people too)= $50,000

Court cost & attornies fees = $35,000

Think maybe a good lawyer will take your case NOW!

1. Say absolutely nothing over the phone

2.keep a folder with all corrrenspondence

3. Be sure to DV as soon as you get Written notice

4. Most will call before you get snail mail so keep a log



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.....Last year I started working the Dave Ramsey Plan got the book the Total Money Makeover and it really, really works, not counting the settlement I am debt FREE except my house & will will have it done in 2 years.

The whole economy of the Great Country is run on debt. This is the way we are teaching our children and it has just got to stop.

Of course we are teaching our children that debt is “good”…debt is our “friend” (assuming we teach them anything about money at all) but it isn’t just our children that need to learn the lessons; it’s also a lot of children in adult bodies (and I’ve not only been one of them but I find myself fighting that little boy all the time)!

Certainly, there are plenty of people who have catastrophic events in their lives (huge financial setbacks or other events that trigger financial setbacks) but most people get into financial trouble for just one reason – they never learn to live on less than they make and they never say “NO” to the little kid inside of them that tells them they HAVE to have something or they DESERVER it!.

It’s sad and discouraging when I see poster after poster who come here with horrible credit scores because of out of control living and out of control debt looking for ways to raise their scores just so they can get more debt…many post “success stories” to crow about how many credit cards they have!!!

The REAL success stories are people like you who have gotten rid of debt and don’t want any more of it and who don’t measure their worth as a person based on how many plastic cards they have or what color they are!



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I know this response is off topic, but your idea of where banks get money to loan is inaccurate. Banks don't get loans from the government to loan money to their customers. Banks create money via the fractional reserve banking system. The creation of debt creates money. It's the heart of the current financial mess.

Watch this series of videos on youtube to get the gist of how it works:


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To Robert :

Your knowledge & thoughtful posts really make a difference, and help us all so thak you for all you do for us when we are in need.

I don't mean to tit for tat on the above correction but the last time I checked the US Treasury still prints what we call legal tender so that is why I used the Govenment not the reserve banks to simplify things in my refrence.

My point is when you walk into the giant buildings with the marble floors, persian rugs, leather chairs & mahogany desk somebody's paying for that. I know it has been me for years and years so shame on me.

I have told my kids in the past be careful " I have meet very few young rich bankers but I have NEVER meet a poor old one".

Everyone here can join a credit union, you are part owner in most cases it is a $15 fee that is about 1 months checking charge at MY BANK IS BIGGER THAN YOURS INC.

When you do what you did you get what you got.

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Here is my positon on many things going on today in this "credit crisis".

The wife and I recently closed each of our credit card accounts. We finally decided to stop this credit madness due to what we have learned in just the past two years. Those who recall remember our disaster when our house flooded due to an improper installation of a water heater. It put us on the streets for 5 weeks. Short version is it was a mess in every imaginative way. Our resources were strapped, etc. This caused us to have to pay late, change patterns, you name it. Mind you, we were on the phone daily with our creditors trying to get help to stay on track, everything. Not one of them would say "Sorry, how can we help?". Each of them, as a whole, simply said, "too bad, so sad, pay us now." Countrywide is still trying to get me to shut up. The story goes on and on, and can raise the hairs on the back of your neck. We found that the interest rates, the hassle, the way we were treated just did not add up to the "ease" of a credit card. Since our bank offers the "VISA" brand ATM, with no interest rates, we had better control of our money as with the daily max on withdrawls, the limit on purchases, if using the credit side, and the absolute given that we would most always never go "over the limit", it was a no brainer.

Here is an example of only one item regarding a credit card. You go to the gas station, insert your card, it authorizes, you fill up. Next rotation, here is an overlimit fee. You go HUH??? Call to find out you only had "X" amount available when you bought the gas. You still ask why. Normal response is that on the day you bought the gas was the rotation day, thus, all fees and interest was applied to account, and, you, not realizing this, allowed your account to become overdrawn. Why is because at most gas stations, your purchase will be approved even if there is only $1.00 available on the account. Yes, this can happen with the ATM version, mostly involving POS purchases, but, not as likely as with a regular credit card. Add it up and you will realize this for yourself.

Another thing to realize is that money in itself does not "float" around, only the "paper" does. This is done by so many different entities, it is hard to keep up. The FED sells the money for 1 or 2%, as noted above, then the buyer sells it to us for whatever the market allows, to where the average consumer loses track. It does not matter as to who, or where it originated, what matters is how it is moved around. I'll say this again. To understand more of what is really going on in this world today is to know above all else, you are never too old to learn. There are so many "he said-she said", "he's to blame, she's to blame", it is almost not worth listening to as you never know who to believe. You go online and read about the "CFR", and who the members are. Then you move to the "Illuminati", to where you now wonder who is actually running this country. It can be mindboggling. We're told that we run the country, and the "elected" work for us. Is that true today? They run us, and, unfortuately, we have allowed it as by our voting, we gave them permission to control us. Forget politics, forget all else, but, do not forget common sense. Everything is there for you to learn of. All it takes is for one to take the time to go to the library, pick a topic, and read. Or, go online, pick a topic, and read. Everything I say can be found online. All you do is read, crosscheck if in doubt, and go from there. Make your own decision as to what is best for you and yours. Not what I say, not what anyone says, only what you say. An example is if you read something in the constitution, and wonder, look up the respective laws as written in the US Codes, to see what is what. Go to "Black"s Law Dictionary" to better understand the definition of a law, and, also Webster's. Even if you find a book and read it, like I did (brother gave me his) on the real laws of this country. I didn't take that information as absolute until I went looking for confirmation. A specific section of the US Code was made, I looked it up. If still confused, went to Black's to understand the definitions as written and intended. A specific Supreme Court decision was referenced, looked for it to support the claim made. It is that simple.

In my career, I built my reputation on honestly at all times. As an employee, you knew who I was and what I stood for. The same as a customer. You err, or complain, we talk, and respond accordingly. It will never come up again unless you repeat the problem. I believe in progressive discipline. Of all my years in gaming, over 20, there were only 6 times that the Gaming Board was called to intervene in a dispute I was involved in. I was found to be correct each time, and, all of the customers involved, except one, remained customers, and, a couple followed me when I went elsewhere. I'm not saying this to brag, my point is that each of us desire, and deserve to be treated as we treat others. If the creditors of this country would only realize this and follow it, there would be less problems in this industry on both sides. We, as consumers, are not just a group of numbers and a dollar sign, we are just like them, decent human beings who are trying to survive in a totally screwed up environment. Have some of us made mistakes in our decisions? You betcha! But, do realize, it is the consumer, not the corporation, not their employees, not their money, not their checks, who keep the doors open and this industry alive. No one else.

Another angle to consider, that really bites me, then I'll shut up. You have a decent job, and all that goes with it. All of a sudden, tragedy strikes. Mine was my heart attack. Overnight we had a loss of income, that lasted until I was able to go back to work, which was 8 weeks later. Yeah, insurance paid, blah, blah. My fellow employees held a sale for us, others gave us money. One of them, now deceased, gave us $1000. But, the bills were still due and payable. Call them up, explain, try to make fair arrangements, and all said the same thing "too bad, so sad, pay us now". Of course, due to ignorant, untrained billing personnel, and what brought us to this site in the beginning, a couple of the medical bills went to collections, that resulted in our winning in the end near 7 years later. This is the short version. You may be asking what I'm trying to say here. Well, it is easy. Your employer will not allow you to return to work until your Doctor releases you to work, in writing. With that, your creditors do not care what the excuse is. Their attitude of it not being their problem, along with so many other comments, and you owing them, is all that matters to them. This is wrong, and should not be allowed to happen in any society. Another example is my wife. She had the same thing one time regarding her "copays" after insurance. Her Doctor's billing manager kept calling, mailing the threats, etc., as to assigning to a collector unless paid today. We wondered why when the Doctor won't let her work for now, why are they doing this. Well, she was scheduled to see him just after this one episode of "discussion". I went in with her, and, we told him everything. You could see he was on fire. He excused himself, left, then returned, apologized, and said all was handled. He had walked out, fired this woman on the spot, then told another to write off total blance due. I thought this odd at first as, to me, if it was my office, I would be involved in all that goes on, including balances owed, whatever. I then took it one step further. The VA Hospital I used then relied on local Doctor's to care for us. This was by contract as each involved had their own private practice. I asked 14 of them if they knew what was going on in their billing office. Only two did, and, only one knew his exact accounts receivable. The others used the "I have a billing/office manager for that". Yeah, after I explained our experiences on this matter, they all said they would "look into it". Yeah, we know, don't we? Care to bet on how many actually changed their patterns? Not me.

I hope that many of you can now see that to assure you and yours are properly cared for in life, it is your responsibility to protect this. By this, for example, if you are treated wrong by a rep of some corporation, no matter who, hang up, make your notes, then call back and ask for the "Biggest Boss" in the building. Make sure they understand you are complaining and demand some type of resolve. This is the only way, in most cases, you can change the balance in an unsettling situation, such as late payments, or a collection. If it involves a written communication, find who that boss is, by the correspondence, or records, whatever, and send them a restricted letter by CMRR, to show they are in for a fight due to their own internal actions. Remember, your end goal in any "bad" financial obligation is to resolve in a way that affords you the best "position", whether by a new contract, discounted, or any other alternative amicable to both parties. It is always you and yours, not them and theirs.

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