CRA Verifies...Chase sends fraud letter???

[2359]

Not sure what to do!

I have a Chase paid chargeoff and I started by disputing the validity of the account with Experian.

Experian came back as verified and today I got a letter from Chase providing a copy of a check (mine) and a form to either dispute the account as fraudulent, or accept the account as being mine.

Any experience with this?

I'm just trying to get this cleared off my report. I paid it off three years ago and was led to believe it would not be reported as a charge off (naive then...no proof!)

Should I send a letter to Chase saying "Oops, I didn't mean to dispute the account as not mine, but disupte the reporting as innaccurate."

Thoughts??

[Debt Guy]

Not mine is one of the dumbest dispute reasons. First, it is a lie and way bad karma. Second, it destroys your credibility with the CRA.

What you might have been led to believe was wrong. The OC, as a matter of policy, leaves the tradeline on the credit report for the maximum legal period.

Exactly what is wrong with the tradeline that you want to dispute?

PS - don't take my comments personal -- I am just hoping your experience will be a lesson for someone else to think before they fire off disputes and DVs -- unpleasant things can result.

[Bigwoodystyl]

Not sure what to do!

I have a Chase paid chargeoff and I started by disputing the validity of the account with Experian.

Experian came back as verified and today I got a letter from Chase providing a copy of a check (mine) and a form to either dispute the account as fraudulent, or accept the account as being mine.

Any experience with this?

I'm just trying to get this cleared off my report. I paid it off three years ago and was led to believe it would not be reported as a charge off (naive then...no proof!)

Should I send a letter to Chase saying "Oops, I didn't mean to dispute the account as not mine, but disupte the reporting as innaccurate."

Thoughts??

Chase keeps excellent records. Upon the merger with Bank One they spent 2.3 BILLION dollars overhauling their entire mainframe and turning it state of the art. (I can see the result of all this as their brand new built from the ground up technology center is located in an industrial park about 5 miles from my house.) They have EVERYTHING. All this crap you might hear about how companies don't keep good records or they get "purged" out of the system, etc., doesn't apply to Chase.

Sorry buddy, I'm not sure you have any recourse. The good news is: at least you paid it. Chase may have sued you had you not. (they are quite conservative and don't take losses very well.) Then you would have a judgment on your hands to go with the CO. At least you don't owe any $... (There's always a silver lining)

[Magdalen77]

Chase keeps excellent records. Upon the merger with Bank One they spent 2.3 BILLION dollars overhauling their entire mainframe and turning it state of the art. (I can see the result of all this as their brand new built from the ground up technology center is located in an industrial park about 5 miles from my house.) They have EVERYTHING. All this crap you might hear about how companies don't keep good records or they get "purged" out of the system, etc., doesn't apply to Chase.

Sorry buddy, I'm not sure you have any recourse. The good news is: at least you paid it. Chase may have sued you had you not. (they are quite conservative and don't take losses very well.) Then you would have a judgment on your hands to go with the CO. At least you don't owe any $... (There's always a silver lining)

Makes me glad I paid Chase. Long, long ago I owed them about $4500.

[Bigwoodystyl]

Not sure what to do!

I have a Chase paid chargeoff and I started by disputing the validity of the account with Experian.

Experian came back as verified and today I got a letter from Chase providing a copy of a check (mine) and a form to either dispute the account as fraudulent, or accept the account as being mine.

Any experience with this?

I'm just trying to get this cleared off my report. I paid it off three years ago and was led to believe it would not be reported as a charge off (naive then...no proof!)

Should I send a letter to Chase saying "Oops, I didn't mean to dispute the account as not mine, but disupte the reporting as innaccurate."

Thoughts??

I can assure you that they have a file on you. In this file, they have a record of every document they have ever sent you and the date it was sent. If the document required a reply from you, then they have your reply scanned in the file. If you didn't reply, they have it documented that you didn't reply. They now have documented with a timestamp in their system a letter stating that they have contacted you about the fraud. In 30-60 days, their system will update and you will be marked as didn't reply by this date, in another 30-60 days the same thing will happen. If you don't return this form to them, you should expect to receive another letter identical to the first that you received with a cover letter stating that you have not yet replied and to please do so. If you never reply, you will receive a final letter from them stating that their fraud investigation has been closed with no reimbursement. This too will be noted in the file. (Do you see where this is going?) For what it's worth, Chase may have already verified that the account number from which the check was written to pay them was a valid account in your name. They may also have pulled some of the other documents, such as the application, or any maintenance forms you requested while you were a cardholder. They may have compared the signature on the check to the signature on the documents. If they have done this, they will have noted it on your file. They probably haven't done this yet, but the point is: they can. As a creditor of yours, Chase has records of all your scores. I'm talking about scores you haven't even heard of. Chase also has access to all of your public records and probably knows where/if you are employed. These may not all be documented on your file per se, but they can pull them, if necessary.

The letter you received is merely to protect Chase legally in the event that you legitimately were a victim of ID Theft, Chase can essentially say, "we did everything we could to recognize ID Theft as soon as the consumer warned us about it." Of course when one thinks about it, the idea that a thief would steal your check and pay on a CO also in your name is absurd!

What I would do is return the form unmarked and unsigned to the address requested. Along with the form I would include a well written goodwill letter stating you were led to believe the TL would be removed from reporting if you paid it, and that this reporting is doing you much harm. (If the letter they sent you has a barcode on it, you may want to blackout the barcode... This may force somebody to first look up your document # and then manually key it, which will force them to spend more time with your document in their hands...)

Your only other option is to continue disputing the TL with different reasons each time and force them to verify it again and again. Just never stop disputing it until your disputes start coming back frivolous. You might get lucky. Chances are you won't.

There is a reason why there are people in this forum who know everything about credit repair and who have had success deleting 30+ collection accounts. These same people still have CO from Chase and BofA, etc., on their CR...

The whole point of this and what you needed to realize, and I can only hope that I have articulated it well enough, is that you should treat world class companies like Chase differently than you would treat JDB or CA...

[Fizzle1979]

Not sure what to do!

I have a Chase paid chargeoff and I started by disputing the validity of the account with Experian.

Experian came back as verified and today I got a letter from Chase providing a copy of a check (mine) and a form to either dispute the account as fraudulent, or accept the account as being mine.

Any experience with this?

I'm just trying to get this cleared off my report. I paid it off three years ago and was led to believe it would not be reported as a charge off (naive then...no proof!)

Should I send a letter to Chase saying "Oops, I didn't mean to dispute the account as not mine, but disupte the reporting as innaccurate."

Thoughts??

Is Chase reporting complete and accurate data regarding this account? I assume that is why you disputed the account. I would look at your credit report, find every data field that is blank or inaccurate and write them a letter back saying, fix this or remove it from my credit report NOW.

[Debt Guy]

Is Chase reporting complete and accurate data regarding this account? I assume that is why you disputed the account.

My bet is that you assume wrong.

[Fizzle1979]

Is Chase reporting complete and accurate data regarding this account? I assume that is why you disputed the account.

My bet is that you assume wrong.

Regardless, if the account is inaccurate, the OP can dispute it.

[Debt Guy]

if the account is inaccurate, the OP can dispute it.

Of course they can and I never said differently. We are just fussing over assumptions of the OP's actions and motivation. I still bet I'm right.

[jasen]

Not mine is one of the dumbest dispute reasons. First, it is a lie and way bad karma. Second, it destroys your credibility with the CRA.

Oh posh. The CRA doesn't know you from John Doe. These disputes are input by bored data entry clerks and verified by automated systems, which then generate automatic form letters either confirming validation or letting you know the tradeline was modified or deleted. No one is over there writing little notes on your account saying "this guy is shady! don't believe him anymore!".

Second, karma has nothing to do with it. We have no obligation to be honest with this company, who is exploiting our personal information for their own profit. They'd fill our reports up with fraudulent information if we let them, and there weren't now laws against it. They don't care. Sometimes disputing as "not mine" IS the most effective way to drop a tradeline, if that is the goal. Whether it makes you feel bad to lie to a nameless, faceless company is a personal choice, and I'm not gong to tell anybody they should or shouldn't from a moral standpoint. Whether it's appropriate or not depends on the situation.

Chase, it seems, has taken a proactive stance on identity theft (a good thing I think) and is contacting people who dispute tradelines in order to verify ID theft. Most of them don't bother, ever. The system just validates the tradeline as accurate, and the consumer is left wondering what to do next, if they do indeed have a fraudulent account.

I wouldn't send the form back, myself. I neither want to claim fraud, nor do I want to sign a form admitting obligation. They already have a personal check, so proving it's yours is not a problem, were they inclined to do so. No reason to send another signed document admitting it.

This is one where you tried, and it didn't work. Some are like that. Paid off accounts especially, can be difficult to get rid of. Might have to ride it out to the end of the reporting terms.

[ghost722]

I disputed an account with chase that i settled. They sent me a check I had used and also the same letter you received. I never responded to the letter, but they were nice enough to change their reporting to "pays as agreed" and even removed all negative notations on my tu report, but left the lates on the two others. Not sure why they did it (maybe it was the goodwill letter they rejected previously), but I am thankful.

[Bigwoodystyl]

I disputed an account with chase that i settled. They sent me a check I had used and also the same letter you received. I never responded to the letter, but they were nice enough to change their reporting to "pays as agreed" and even removed all negative notations on my tu report, but left the lates on the two others. Not sure why they did it (maybe it was the goodwill letter they rejected previously), but I am thankful.

That's very good news, especially to the OP. You settled and got positive reporting. It sounds like he PIF and didn’t. That means there is hope.

Second, karma has nothing to do with it. We have no obligation to be honest with this company, who is exploiting our personal information for their own profit. They'd fill our reports up with fraudulent information if we let them, and there weren't now laws against it. They don't care. Sometimes disputing as "not mine" IS the most effective way to drop a tradeline, if that is the goal. Whether it makes you feel bad to lie to a nameless, faceless company is a personal choice, and I'm not gong to tell anybody they should or shouldn't from a moral standpoint. Whether it's appropriate or not depends on the situation.

Generally, I agree with you. But, IMHO, it’s not karma. It’s about how one conducts his/her business. Chase is a quality company and they do things the right way. In that sense, as a person worthy of his/her word, I would think, would want to act appropriately. I don’t see how they are “exploiting” his personal information. They are only reporting it accurately. This is not an innately stupid and willfully non-compliant CA he’s dealing with; this is one of the strongest companies in the world.

SELECT * FROM Collection_Agencies

WHERE Brains > 0

Command completed.

(0 rows affected.)

This is hilarious.

[fatherof3]

Chase may keep good records, so then when I DV'ed them they should have been able to send me proof of my alledge account. They did not.

I also did not send back the form because of the above reason, if I checked fraud I am not sure if it would be truthful and if I signed it I would be admiting debt. The reason it could be fraud is that the account has been bought and sold several times over the last 6 years. I never signed up for a Chase account.

Apparently they don't have the orginal document for the alledged account.

Keep after them, they told us to just look at the monthly statement as proof. LMAO

[Bigwoodystyl]

Chase may keep good records, so then when I DV'ed them they should have been able to send me proof of my alledge account. They did not.

I also did not send back the form because of the above reason, if I checked fraud I am not sure if it would be truthful and if I signed it I would be admiting debt. The reason it could be fraud is that the account has been bought and sold several times over the last 6 years. I never signed up for a Chase account.

Apparently they don't have the orginal document for the alledged account.

Keep after them, they told us to just look at the monthly statement as proof. LMAO

1. You can't DV an OC (not from your location anyway..)

2. Just because they didn't produce the document for you, doesn't mean they can't...

[fatherof3]

You sound like a debt collector, are you?

[Debt Guy]

Oh posh.

Why I have not been "poshed" since I was a mere child and that was from my grandmother. I'm trying to think of a snappy comeback. How about pish-posh?

The CRA doesn't know you from John Doe.

Agreed. But "not mine" disputes have been so over-used that it easily leads to a frivolous flag. The CRA reps tell me that in excess of 99% of "not mine" disputes are bogus. They say that any genuine identity theft report is accompanied by a proper theft report.

I disapprove of lies. But, if the OP is going to lie -- at least be creative about it.

These disputes are input by bored data entry clerks and verified by automated systems, which then generate automatic form letters either confirming validation or letting you know the tradeline was modified or deleted. No one is over there writing little notes on your account saying "this guy is shady! don't believe him anymore!".

Not necessarily. That frivolous thingy.

Second, karma has nothing to do with it. We have no obligation to be honest with this company, who is exploiting our personal information for their own profit.

You, my dear, are dead wrong to the core. Karma will burn you. What goes around comes around.

I could spend much more time trying to explain why you are wrong but you are not going to listen so I'll just save the wear and tear on my fingertips. You should be ashamed of yourself for advancing the idea that it is moral or ethical to lie.

Oh, I grant it is easy to rationalize bad behavior. The human condition begs for excuses for why everything that stinks in my life is the fault of someone else. We rationalize racial and gender bias, we rationalize theft, we rationalize economic discrimination, we rationalize war. It is no big deal from there to rationalize telling lies for selfish reasons.

But, personally, I really don't care so much for the lie. What does offend me is the effect of the lie. If you "make disappear" a legitimate negative history on your credit report, you change your risk profile. We all know that lenders extend credit and price credit based on that risk profile. When someone lies manipulate the system, they drive up the cost of credit for all of us. Surely, you are not so naive to think those losses just get sucked up by the bank? It is paid by everyone else. And that means me. And that gives me the right to be offended and snippy about.

The only word to describe that person is selfish. Well, I guess more than one word -- dishonest also applies.

They'd fill our reports up with fraudulent information if we let them,

Who is they? What fraudulent information? If someone is doing you wrong -- take action. Do something other than whine. Just don't lie about.

[Magdalen77]

This is one where you tried, and it didn't work. Some are like that. Paid off accounts especially, can be difficult to get rid of. Might have to ride it out to the end of the reporting terms.

This is what I'm doing with Cap One. I paid them off years ago and disputed them off EQ and TU, but they keep verifying on EX. They're due to drop off in May. About 6 months ago I gave up disputing as a lost cause. The next letter to EX about them will be remaining them to remove if they aren't gone by May 31st.

[jasen]

You, my dear, are dead wrong to the core. Karma will burn you. What goes around comes around.

I could spend much more time trying to explain why you are wrong but you are not going to listen so I'll just save the wear and tear on my fingertips. You should be ashamed of yourself for advancing the idea that it is moral or ethical to lie.

No, you needn't explain anything. "karma" is a religious/spiritual concept which is relevant to your faith, but not mine or many others. It also has no relevance to fixing a credit report. I'd give you the same response if you had told someone to pray to Zeus to fix their credit.

The world is not black and white, wrong and right, and it's not Rainbow-puppy planet. I'd feel as little shame or remorse for lying to a bureau as I would lying to a mugger about where my money was. I don't lie to my friends, family, or even you. But a corporation? It's not a person.

Bureau's are not our friends. They exist to serve the banks, and use our personal data without our permission to make profit, and make the bank's profit.

Before we had the FCRA to protect us, the bureau's accepted any information they were given, including fraudulent, and never fixed it. Dispute it? Hah, they didn't even have to show you what was on it. They only do so now because they have to. They're forced to be more honest now, and even then many people have to go through hell to get legitimate problems fixed.

When someone lies manipulate the system, they drive up the cost of credit for all of us. Surely, you are not so naive to think those losses just get sucked up by the bank? It is paid by everyone else. And that means me. And that gives me the right to be offended and snippy about.

Now you're rationalizing as well. You're saying that if the OP gets a bad tradeline dropped, your interest rates automatically go up? Not quite. Maybe, if he gets it dropped, and if he gains new credit directly due to this, and if he then defaults this new credit, then that bank will have lost money. And then if that happens often enough, they might find ways to make up that cost out of your pocket. It's a lot of assumptions to make to get to that point from this one instance. You're not wrong about the banks making up profit in any way they can, but it's quite a jump to get from a random guy's dropped tradeline to my personal costs going up.

[fatherof3]

Where is big Woodystyl on this one. Do they lose money? Does it cause our interest rates to go up?

[jasen]

Of course they lose money on defaulted accounts.

They make a little back from tax write-offs of that account (the purpose of a charge-off), maybe some from receivables insurance, and then some from selling that account to a JDB. They won't get the whole account balance though.

They nail us in several ways I'm sure. Notice how late fees used to be $10-15... and now they're $30-40? And what about this recent "universal default" crap, where if you are late with any creditor, other, unrelated creditors, will suddenly raise your rates?

Consumers with prime rates, who are never late, probably don't feel it nearly as much as the average consumer.

My previous point was that people defaulting on accounts is driving this problem; dropping negatives from credit reports is not, except in a tertiary manner. People who abuse the system, fix their credit, and then abuse it again, are the problem. People who made mistakes, fix their credit, and then, having learned from their mistakes, handle their finances appropriately, are not the problem.

I don't think anyone here knows you well enough to make that distinction, and so can't say you deserve to keep your bad credit tradelines as they are, or get snippy because you're trying to fix it.

I prefer to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, unless proven otherwise.

[Magdalen77]

Just a comment on that universal default interest rate. My 74-year old, who probably has 800 scores across the board lives in terror of that.

He has used some of his cards heavily due to bailing out my very irresponsible sister. And he's still paying on about $4000 worth of credit card debt (it was more like 15K). (I keep trying to get him to let me help pay, but he won't take it). I could just kill my sister. Now she thinks I'm the next source o' money, but I'm not as kind as my dad.

[fatherof3]

And I maintain that that they do not lose money because they inflate the charges. It is trumped up charges that they are writting off, FREE money that was never loaned. That is how the accounts get so damn high.

[Moneedshelp]

interesting discussion.

don't send the letter back and just wait. Try a GW letter. You did say you thought it would disappear after payment. You didn't know at that time, so. . . Dispute again, and if it comes off good, if not you still have to wait nothing ventured-nothing gained.

I don't think anything is wrong with that

[jasen]

And I maintain that that they do not lose money because they inflate the charges. It is trumped up charges that they are writting off, FREE money that was never loaned. That is how the accounts get so damn high.

You have a point there. The way they inflate the accounts with interest and fees, some of those write-offs are not a true loss, but rather a loss of potential.

[fatherof3]

I believe that they actually make money on every transaction, good and bad. The bad is a write off (Charge off) then if they collect its a bonus. The good is when the poor person pays off the trumped up charges and late fees etc.. If they get even part of it it is win for them. What they don't get they sell to a JDB. We all know what they are.

JMHO

PS. I hate the credit card companys more now than ever. If they would only work with the people a little bit more. Black or white is all they know.