Dealing with Plains Commerce

[LoveToGod]

I thought they would be such that if I wrote a real nice letter they would work with me and give me a favorable report on my credit if I agreed to payment arrangements or to pay the balance in full. Well, I was wrong. They were not the least bit interested.

Now I my question is this: Is it a bad idea to send them the letter that you send to an OC per FCRA 623 after trying to negotiate with them? I basically admitted the account was mine, because at the time I thought it was the best way to go.

Just 4 accounts to get rid of after the BK along with extra names and addresses and I am home free, mission accomplished.

[LoveToGod]

Is there any additional info that I could include here that would help out?

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

So it appears to you filed bankruptcy.

One would assume you included all your accounts in the bankruptcy, right?

Meaning you didn’t pay these debts (since they were discharged by bankruptcy), right?

So…why do you think they should be “nice” to you?

Maybe the better question is, why are you needing to mess with accounts after filing bankruptcy?

[LoveToGod]

So it appears to you filed bankruptcy.

One would assume you included all your accounts in the bankruptcy, right?

Meaning you didn’t pay these debts (since they were discharged by bankruptcy), right?

So…why do you think they should be “nice” to you?

Maybe the better question is, why are you needing to mess with accounts after filing bankruptcy?

First of all, it was an account that I got afterwards to try to rebuild my credit so that I could get a house later.

Second of all, bad things happen to good people. You just wait until something befalls you, and then lets see what tune you are playing... Don't give me that.

I filed the BK 2003, and got the card is 2004.

It is not my fault that my job laid me off after being there for 3 years. I had no reason to believe that was going to happen.

As far as paying the debts, don't worry life screws us all. We pay many times over in property taxes, the IRS, you name it. America is not what is used to be. I mean you pay the house off, is that house really yours? Of course not. I mean if it is really own your house how is it that the government can take the house that you paid for away if you don't pay their taxes? This whole thing is jacked up.

We have it better here than in other countries, but it is still just a game.

Life is a game. This whole thing is a game. Some people need to realize this. The creditors don't care about morality or right or wrong. You don't believe just sit down and watch the movie Maxed out. Just make sure you don't eat anything during that time...

As I said, the creditors don't care about right and wrong. All the care about are the dollar signs.... GREED. That is it.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

....

You are the living, breathing, poster-board for what I've been railing about for many years which, among other things, are those who refuse to learn from their past and continue to think debt is good or necessary (and usually think that everything bad that happens to them is someone/something elses' fault - that it couldn't possibly be due to bad decisions they made!).

You run your financial life with debt and when it doesn't work and you file bankruptcy (which should have been an indication that how you were handling your financial life probably wasn’t working well).

Then you go out and get new debt to “build your credit”.

Then you default on the new debt.

And apparently because debt has been such a blessing in your life, you run around yet again trying to figure out how to re-write your lously credit history and get the new “bad” stuff off so you can; let me guess, get more debt!

If that is the kind of plan you intend to stick with then I suggest you never move out of Texas because I think you are going to be needing Texas' very friendly consumer debt/collection laws for a long time to come.

As to loosing the job…anybody who assumes life won’t happen to them and then uses bad life events as an excuse for their financial problems are simply living life with blinders on. If you are alive ten years from now, it is very likely that you WILL have a bad life event happen within the next ten years (medical issue, car accident, job loss, etc, etc.) which will negatively impact your financial health and that’s especially true if your “financial health” is built on debt.

Perhaps if, after filing your first bankruptcy, you had spent your time building up an emergency fund (to handle emergencies like a job loss; that’s why it’s called an emergency fund) rather than getting new debt, perhaps you wouldn’t have had to default on the new debt you had acquired poat bankruptcy.

You are right, creditors don’t care about morality (although I question whether someone who hasn’t lived up to the contracts they made should be bringing up the morality issue).

Creditors care about people paying what they promised to pay because that’s how they make a profit and since you seem more than willing to get in bed with them I don’t think you have any moral justification for complaining about it.

[Shae]

I thought they would be such that if I wrote a real nice letter they would work with me and give me a favorable report on my credit if I agreed to payment arrangements or to pay the balance in full. Well, I was wrong. They were not the least bit interested.

Now I my question is this: Is it a bad idea to send them the letter that you send to an OC per FCRA 623 after trying to negotiate with them? I basically admitted the account was mine, because at the time I thought it was the best way to go.

Just 4 accounts to get rid of after the BK along with extra names and addresses and I am home free, mission accomplished.

If I recall from one of your previous posts re: Plains Commerce, the amount is not that much. (Less than $500). It doesn't seem like this is falling off soon. You don't want to pay it?

[LoveToGod]

You are right, creditors don’t care about morality (although I question whether someone who hasn’t lived up to the contracts they made should be bringing up the morality issue).

Creditors care about people paying what they promised to pay because that’s how they make a profit and since you seem more than willing to get in bed with them I don’t think you have any moral justification for complaining about it.

You are never going to understand this. People to don't take out loans with the intention to not pay them. Events happen than can make it not possible to pay.

Their profits are obscene.

Most people can't just buy a house cash, so most of what you are saying is just stupid... I don't know why you even come to this site...

[LoveToGod]

If I recall from one of your previous posts re: Plains Commerce, the amount is not that much. (Less than $500). It doesn't seem like this is falling off soon. You don't want to pay it?

I want to pay it with out it dropping my FICO score. It is like I said. It is a game. If I pay it now, it will update the last date of activity and will make it look like a new charge off.

They are not willing to mark it paid as agreed if I pay it. All they will do is mark it paid charge off. I figure if they want their money they need to not to be such prudes and work with me on the reporting or they just kiss my butt.

[gator944]

Joe,

If you step back and receive Robert's post as constructive criticism, you'll see there is a ton of truth to what he is saying. Yes, we all have bad things happen, but I think the point is don't let the situation suck you in so deep that you lose the clear perpective of it.

My bad thing happened back in 2001 with a year of unemployment. It wasn't until then that I realized I so should have had an emergency fund. Once I did a post mortum of my situation, I realized that if I had put what I had paid in interest on borrowed money, I could have easily made it through 2 years of being unemployed. That's when my paradigm shift took place.

I now have that emergency fund along with other savings that allow me to pay cash for things like the 50" plasma, new cars, and riding lawnmowers. What I did was practice taking three steps back and asking myself "is this really worth OWING someone?". The answer is always NO because that plasma TV may be worth $2000.00, but it d@#n sure ain't worth $8000.00 after the interest is paid. My stockbroker friend once told me that financing anything that depreciates is the absolutely dumbest thing anyone can ever do.

I do apologize for not addressing your question or issue, but Robert always speaks the harsh truth, albiet, often harsher than it needs to be. Something I live by is that when I find myself in hole getting deeper and deeper, I find the it getting deeper when I stop digging.

Best of luck with Plains Commerce Bank.

[Shae]

You are never going to understand this. People to don't take out loans with the intention to not pay them. Events happen than can make it not possible to pay.

Their profits are obscene.

Most people can't just buy a house cash, so most of what you are saying is just stupid... I don't know why you even come to this site...

I think Robert_Nashville gives good advice. So does Debt Guy. I think you just don't like what they say. They are brutally honest and in LIFE we need brutal honesty. Bad things happen to good people, yes.

I think he understands and he knows what he's talking about. Thats why he comes here. And you have questions that you don't know the answers to so you come to this site to get his and everyone else's advice.

Don't make this like those other boards where everyone insults each other.

[looksbothways]

Most people can't just buy a house cash...

Most people CAN buy a house with cash, if they're willing to wait until they have the money. Most people WON'T because they'd rather have the house now and pay it off over 15 or 30 years. It's a choice. It's not forced on you.

Everyone makes financial and credit mistakes. All of us are here because of those mistakes. However, there is a difference between making mistakes, fixing them, and moving ahead, and making mistakes, fixing them, and making the same mistakes again! You are responsible for your financial life and the consequences of the decisions you make. Your job loss isn't responsible, your creditors aren't responsible, the government isn't responsible. It's just you. Post bankruptcy, you chose to jump right back in with credit and go for buying a house rather than save up a nice emergency fund to see you through the inevitable hard times.

The debt belongs to you and the creditor is not in any way obligated to delete the evidence of your misdeeds by deleting it after you pay. The right thing to do after they refuse a pfd and you've talked to the top of the food chain, would be to pay it with an agreement that it's paid in full and would be noted as such. You did the crime and sometimes you have no choice but to do the time. Just because there are stories all over this board and others about people who got out of legitimate debts, that doesn't mean it's guaranteed or that it's the way to go.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

You are never going to understand this.

Then why bother saying it?

…People to don't take out loans with the intention to not pay them.

There are likely dozens of my posts where I have said specifically that most people do not go into debt with the intention of not paying. However, given your stated history, I'm not sure that you are in that "most" category.

At any rate, perhaps you should do a little "research" about a person before you start making assertions about what he will or won't understand.

Events happen than can make it not possible to pay.

Yes they do and some events are so devastating that no amount of preparation is enough but people who have a three to six month emergency fund can handle most "events" without concurrently incurring a financial disaster at the same time.

That aside, most "events" don't go on forever and just because a person can't pay "then" is not an automatic excuse for never paying.

Their profits are obscene.

I assume you mean lenders (whose products you seem so intent on using) and if so, I agree that they are obscene and that's why I don't "contribute" to them.

That aside, far be it from me to defend the debt industry but one of the reasons they charge so much interest and try to make so much profit is to make up for all the people (like you) who beg for their product (debt) and then don't pay.

Most people can't just buy a house cash, so most of what you are saying is just stupid.

When were we talking about a house? I guess I missed that. In any case, what does that have to do with anything?

Actually, your statement is incorrect as most people COULD buy a house with cash if they are disciplined enough with their personal finances - I don't say it is easy, in fact is it not easy, but not being easy is a far cry from "can't".

I've also never said anywhere that people shouldn't use credit to buy a house - I don't recommend debt but at least a house generally goes up in value and it does supply a place to live so having a reasonable mortgage (after 20% down and with a good emergency fund and no other debt) is not necessarily a bad thing. However, I'd still rather use the 100% down plan and I know people who have.

By the way, I don't think anyone using your guide to personal finance has any right to call anyone else's ideas "stupid".

... I don't know why you even come to this site...

Well, it's primarily to try and help people to NOT do the kinds of things you are doing.

[gator944]

Here's something that might put things in better perspective. Buying a new car and financing $20,000.00 at 8% will cost you $405.53 for 60 months. Typically that $25,000.00 car will be worth about $13,000 in 3 years. If instead of getting that car today, you did wait the 3 years and saved $405.53 a month, you would not only have the $13000.00 cash to buy the car, but you would also have an extra $1599.08 left over to pay for it's first year of gas.

Are we really a society that impatient that we can't wait 2 or 3 years to buy it instead of borrow it? Keep up the good fight Robert. I get you Brother.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Here's something that might put things in better perspective. Buying a new car and financing $20,000.00 at 8% will cost you $405.53 for 60 months. Typically that $25,000.00 car will be worth about $13,000 in 3 years. If instead of getting that car today, you did wait the 3 years and saved $405.53 a month, you would not only have the $13000.00 cash to buy the car, but you would also have an extra $1599.08 left over to pay for it's first year of gas.

Are we really a society that impatient that we can't wait 2 or 3 years to buy it instead of borrow it? Keep up the good fight Robert. I get you Brother.

Thanks, Gator.

Here is another little tidbit - if you assume, as usually happens, that a person will have a car payment for most of their life, if they have a car payment from age 25 to 65 and averages paying your $405/month all those years, that works out to approximately $4.2 MILLION dollars that could have, insted, been saved for retirement...I hope people financing their cars REALLY, REALLY Like their cars!!!

[lovebug5]

Now I my question is this: Is it a bad idea to send them the letter that you send to an OC per FCRA 623 after trying to negotiate with them? I basically admitted the account was mine, because at the time I thought it was the best way to go.

IMO, it's a bad idea because you're going to look like an absolute idiot. If you've already been corresponding with them in writing attempting to negotiate the debt, and then you turn around and request an investigation into the account on the basis that you do not believe the account is yours - it's a little backwards, isn't it? It's a little fraudulent, isn't it?

I mean, you've already written to them asking them to negotiate this with you. You've already admitted that the debt is yours. They have it in writing. So why, after all of this (including your BK discharge), should they not deem your request frivolous on the basis that you've already taken ownership over the debt?

If I were the OC in this situation, I'd get your Section 623 request...I'd take your previous correspondence where you admitted to the debt and attempted to negotiate the balance...And I'd request that the BK courts open up your case again based upon the fact that you can obviously pay this debt - but are trying your d@mndest to get out of it.

[LoveToGod]

Joe,

If you step back and receive Robert's post as constructive criticism, you'll see there is a ton of truth to what he is saying. Yes, we all have bad things happen, but I think the point is don't let the situation suck you in so deep that you lose the clear perpective of it.

My bad thing happened back in 2001 with a year of unemployment. It wasn't until then that I realized I so should have had an emergency fund. Once I did a post mortum of my situation, I realized that if I had put what I had paid in interest on borrowed money, I could have easily made it through 2 years of being unemployed. That's when my paradigm shift took place.

I now have that emergency fund along with other savings that allow me to pay cash for things like the 50" plasma, new cars, and riding lawnmowers. What I did was practice taking three steps back and asking myself "is this really worth OWING someone?". The answer is always NO because that plasma TV may be worth $2000.00, but it d@#n sure ain't worth $8000.00 after the interest is paid. My stockbroker friend once told me that financing anything that depreciates is the absolutely dumbest thing anyone can ever do.

I do apologize for not addressing your question or issue, but Robert always speaks the harsh truth, albiet, often harsher than it needs to be. Something I live by is that when I find myself in hole getting deeper and deeper, I find the it getting deeper when I stop digging.

Best of luck with Plains Commerce Bank.

The thing is it is too late to talk about an emergency fund since the incident already occurred. This is something that can be done in the future. The issue is that is happened, so I want to clean up the mess.

There is no point in Robert telling me what he did and then talking about an emergency fund. I did not ask about any of that. I know about those things. This is a credit repair website. He should understand that people that come here are not perfect like he is and have had problems in the past that they are trying clean up.

If he hold the position that he does he would make a really good debt collector or good lawyer. He should go to law school and become the lawyer that we would all hate, because he would be good at it.

[LoveToGod]

Most people CAN buy a house with cash, if they're willing to wait until they have the money. Most people WON'T because they'd rather have the house now and pay it off over 15 or 30 years. It's a choice. It's not forced on you.

Everyone makes financial and credit mistakes. All of us are here because of those mistakes. However, there is a difference between making mistakes, fixing them, and moving ahead, and making mistakes, fixing them, and making the same mistakes again! You are responsible for your financial life and the consequences of the decisions you make. Your job loss isn't responsible, your creditors aren't responsible, the government isn't responsible. It's just you. Post bankruptcy, you chose to jump right back in with credit and go for buying a house rather than save up a nice emergency fund to see you through the inevitable hard times.

The debt belongs to you and the creditor is not in any way obligated to delete the evidence of your misdeeds by deleting it after you pay. The right thing to do after they refuse a pfd and you've talked to the top of the food chain, would be to pay it with an agreement that it's paid in full and would be noted as such. You did the crime and sometimes you have no choice but to do the time. Just because there are stories all over this board and others about people who got out of legitimate debts, that doesn't mean it's guaranteed or that it's the way to go.

If I could pay it without it dropping my FICO score I would probably just pay it and be done with it, but the way the current FICO system works, it will drop my score to pay it.

So do the crime do the time? How about being punished for good behavior? Not in this lifetime...

[gator944]

Actually, I think he is a lawyer, but one of the good guys.

Again, I think the issue he was trying to help with was the original BK that should have shown you the light. Aparently it didn't because you found yourself back in the very same leaky boat that the BK bailed out the first time. We get so caught up in our own goals and processes that we lose sight of what the other side might be thinking or what their perspective is.

I, for one, am very glad we have Robert Nashville's sanity checks here. It helps us to keep from getting so self absorbed in our own issues that we lose perspective of the clearer or bigger picture.

Please don't take offense. I truly feel Robert's posts are meant in the most positive way.

[gator944]

Now, all that being said, I think that when you pick your approach of how to deal with the company reporting to the CRAs, you're pretty much stuck with the avenue you take.

If you take the goodwill letter path, you are especially tied to that avenue. However, if you contest a trade line without admitting it's yours, I can see that when they prove it is, you are still afforded the option of changing your position and begging forgiveness. That is as long as you didn't get too pissy with them in your previous letters.

Best of luck Joe.

[looksbothways]

You're not being punished for good behavior (paying the debt), you're being punished for bad behavior (not paying the debt before it went to collections)

As for saying an emergency fund is something you can do in the future...you're not making any sense. You've been through a bankruptcy, built up more debt and defaulted, and here you go trying to obtain a bunch of credit for a third time and you STILL haven't learned the lesson. Live within your means and put aside money for a rainy day because there is absolutely a 100% chance that SOMETHING bad will happen to you eventually, and no FICO score is going to save you.

[Guest BucFan]

Live within your means and put aside money for a rainy day because there is absolutely a 100% chance that SOMETHING bad will happen to you eventually, and no FICO score is going to save you.

Quoted for TRUTHINESS

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

…

It's reassuring to know that you've got me all figured out; even deciding what my career should be!

This site is hardly just about "credit repair" but even were that so, you aren't going to find a lot of support, from people on this site, for the notion that a person with the ability to pay a legitimate debt should not do so.

Your "event" is over…you've already stated the debt is yours and you have the ability to pay it; you just don't want to.

By the way, what "good behavior" do you feel you are being punished for if you pay a debt you owe and have the ability to pay...is that the good behavior of defaulting the fist time and then filing bankruptcy to avoid paying or is it the behavior of defaulting the second time and trying to find ways to not pay???

When children do something they shouldn't have done, they'll often "clean up the mess" by trying to hide from it…pretend it didn't happen…avoid the consequences.

Adults "clean up the mess" by taking responsibility for their actions…by doing the right thing…by facing the consequences of their mistakes…adults do those things even if no one else around them is doing the right thing…even if no one else ever even knows they did the right thing.

I'll let the people who read this thread figure out which one you are.

I've no doubt that you'll ultimately be successful in re-writing your current credit history and then be able to pretend you are a good credit risk and obtain a bunch of new debt. I've also no doubt that another "event" will happen and once again you'll default on the new debt and you'll be right back here, trying to re-write your credit history once again.

[LoveToGod]

Then why bother saying it?

There are likely dozens of my posts where I have said specifically that most people do not go into debt with the intention of not paying. However, given your stated history, I'm not sure that you are in that "most" category.

How would you know? Do you have any idea how many loans I have taken out and paid completely on time without any late payments?

Now you are judging my motive, and you don't know that. You have to be careful when you start doing that. I am just sick of the system. I think its corrupt. HAVE YOU EVER SEEM THE DOCUMENTARY MAXED OUT? YOU HAVE GOT TO WATCH THAT. IT WILL TAKE 2 HOURS OF YOUR TIME. IT MIGHT CHANGE YOUR POSITION. I AM VERY CURIOUS TO KNOW IF YOU HAVE SEEN IT...

At any rate, perhaps you should do a little "research" about a person before you start making assertions about what he will or won't understand.

I am going by your continual responses to me. I said that based on the things you have told me.

That aside, most "events" don't go on forever and just because a person can't pay "then" is not an automatic excuse for never paying.

There is no "excuse" for not paying, and I am not saying the messed up system gives me a valid excuse to not pay something, but I going to what improves my FICO score, because that is what lenders look at. I found from past experience that merely paying a collection did not help anything, because they just put paid collection on your report if they update the last date of activity it lowers your score--punished for good behavior--that is wrong.

I assume you mean lenders (whose products you seem so intent on using) and if so, I agree that they are obscene and that's why I don't "contribute" to them.

Most people have to play this game in order be approved for a mortgage. If you have no credit it is very difficult to get a mortgage. Most people are not as "disciplined" as you are to save up enough money to buy a house cash.

That aside, far be it from me to defend the debt industry but one of the reasons they charge so much interest and try to make so much profit is to make up for all the people (like you) who beg for their product (debt) and then don't pay.

You should know that I have 37 accounts that are PAID AS AGREED, and 13 that have issues, but 9 of them are from the BK.

So I have a history of pay much more often than not paying. You don't know okay... This is a credit repair site. People come on here because they are looking to improve a situation. We do not have perfect credit like you do okay...

When were we talking about a house? I guess I missed that. In any case, what does that have to do with anything?

I was going to do so 2 years after I filed the BK, but other things have come up. I need to see where I want to plant roots at first, before I buy a house...

Actually, your statement is incorrect as most people COULD buy a house with cash if they are disciplined enough with their personal finances - I don't say it is easy, in fact is it not easy, but not being easy is a far cry from "can't".

I think most people if they spoke up would disagree with that...

By the way, I don't think anyone using your guide to personal finance has any right to call anyone else's ideas "stupid".

I think the only thing I called "stupid" was the implication that I don't care about paying my bills. That assertion is stupid.

Well, it's primarily to try and help people to NOT do the kinds of things you are doing.

Excuse me? I am trying to clean up my credit and minimize the damage just like most others here. The only difference is that I might be more vocal or expressive about it.

You don't believe in having and using credit right? This site should drive you crazy....

[LoveToGod]

By the way, what "good behavior" do you feel you are being punished for if you pay a debt you owe and have the ability to pay...is that the good behavior of defaulting the fist time and then filing bankruptcy to avoid paying or is it the behavior of defaulting the second time and trying to find ways to not pay???

All you have to do is read. I told you what it was. That good behavior would be paying the past due debt.

The act of catching up on a charged off debt lowers your FICO score; what great incentive.

I've no doubt that you'll ultimately be successful in re-writing your current credit history and then be able to pretend you are a good credit risk and obtain a bunch of new debt. I've also no doubt that another "event" will happen and once again you'll default on the new debt and you'll be right back here, trying to re-write your credit history once again.

What you are you talking about? I have already cleaned up about 85% of it. It is almost done!

What? Do you have a crystal ball that tells you what is going to happen in the future? Do you tell the future. Is this like a side business you have? Give me a break!

You talking about whether or not I'm an Adult or Child, I have a few words for you that I can't repeat here, but I will let you use your imagination.

Several years ago, I had a hand full of collections and charge offs, and I went back and PAID EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, only to find out that it dosen't help your credit.

The issue is not my willingness to pay, but the scoring and credit system, and the way it responds to those who do decide to go back and pay the debts. It does not respond correctly, so we adjust our response accordingly.

If you can't get that, there ain't no way I can get you to see that... There are others who have experienced what I have experienced and can relate to the situation, and then you have these self-righteous pharisees that come out of the wood work.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

...

Ok josephl, you go right ahead and keep doing what you've been doing (it's obviously worked well for you so far).