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Poll: What is your view about using Credit?

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Guest BucFan

I just would like to pipe in...

announce that this thread's a complete train wreck.

... then slink away.

::leaving::

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I just would like to pipe in...

announce that this thread's a complete train wreck.

... then slink away.

::leaving::

Of course it is. :)

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I just would like to pipe in...

announce that this thread's a complete train wreck.

... then slink away.

::leaving::

Now...Now...Now...saying things like that will make a certain someone (I'm not saying who) mad and that someone (I'm still not saying who) will start calling you names. :wink:

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I think you are the one being just a bit "judgmental"....I Never commented upon your personal financial situation. You are the one being judgemental as You posted comments about my financial situation without knowing anything about it. And the fact that my Child died from Cancer. Credit or debt had nothing to due with that. That is Life.

I know quite a few security traders - quite a few of them think as you do - quite a few have seen their "safe/low risk" methods not be quite so safe or low risk as they thought precisely because of, as you say, financial (and other types of)disasters happen.

Please, I have been Trading securities for 26+ years. That is a very myopic ignorant statement on your part. I Trade the Ym and the ES. My Capital is best used in my trading account. I will take a 6% loan any day.

A lifestyle, or a business built on debt will always be more risky than one that is not and I've been around long enough to have seen (and in some cases, lived) multiple examples of why that statement is true.

Take a Good HARD LOOK at the WORLD. Businesses Finance their expansion through funding. Homes are purchased with mortgages. People buy cars with financing. It works quite well.

We'll just have to agree to disagree - take care.

Use your credit WISELY.

There is nothing wrong with financing a home purchase with a loan/mortgage that is in your interest.

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BucFan is right in a way. The original intent was to poll our views on credit, but I don't mind the conversations.

If there is going to be a train wreck lets stick every badly made Ford car in the way and video tape it. :)

The Poll: Do you think:

1. No credit should be used at all period.

2. Credit should only be used in an emergency.

3. Credit should be used for big things like a house and car

4. Credit can be used for anything as long as you make the payments

5. Credit can be used as long as you don't extend yourself and make payments on time

6. Credit can be used as long as you don't debt to income ratio is not over a certain percentage

7. Other

Part #2: Have you seen the documentary Maxed out, and if so what do you think of it? TO DATE NO NUMBERS ON THIS YET...

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Use your credit and financing opportunities WISELY.

Don't let anyone on here dissuade you from obtaining financing on a Home Loan Purchase with a Mortgage.

Every Financial Planner in the country would suggest the used of a loan/mortgage is a WISE use of your financial position.

There is nothing wrong with using credit as long as you use it wisely.

When you use your Credit make sure you can pay those bills.

Just about every business in the world has used credit. How many people have obtained home ownership with a loan? Bajillions. How many people have successfully used credit to obtain a new vehicle? Bazillions. They have used it wisely and you need to do the same.

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Yeah, what happened with that? I thought they discontinued that model and then I see it back...

The Taurus is a popular model. Alot of people could not relate to the 500 but could definitely relate to the Taurus.

I definitely liked mine. I was saddened when Ford wanted to discontinue it. They made the right decision bringing it back.

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Use your credit and financing opportunities WISELY.

Don't let anyone on here dissuade you from obtaining financing on a Home Loan Purchase with a Mortgage.

Every Financial Planner in the country would suggest the used of a loan/mortgage is a WISE use of your financial position.

There is nothing wrong with using credit as long as you use it wisely.

When you use your Credit make sure you can pay those bills.

Just about every business in the world has used credit. How many people have obtained home ownership with a loan? Bajillions. How many people have successfully used credit to obtain a new vehicle? Bazillions. They have used it wisely and you need to do the same.

You are right and Robert is right. There is no wrong in what you or Robert say about the use of credit. The only WRONG would be when you use credit poorly and unwise. I wish I could follow Robert's advice to some degree but it isn't financially feasible. But that doesn't mean I would dismiss it outright. The man makes sense, even if he does seem very anti-credit (actually, I think he's probably more anti-debt than anti-credit....you can have credit available to you without using it, and I would like to reach that point someday).

I also wish to offer my condolences for your loss regardless of when it was. Losing any child to cancer would be very painful.

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You are right and Robert is right. There is no wrong in what you or Robert say about the use of credit. The only WRONG would be when you use credit poorly and unwise. I wish I could follow Robert's advice to some degree but it isn't financially feasible. But that doesn't mean I would dismiss it outright. The man makes sense, even if he does seem very anti-credit (actually, I think he's probably more anti-debt than anti-credit....you can have credit available to you without using it, and I would like to reach that point someday).

I also wish to offer my condolences for your loss regardless of when it was. Losing any child to cancer would be very painful.

Have I ever made any comment about Richards financial position?

Where Have I been Judgmental about his use of credit? But he accused me of be judgmental.

He made various assumptions and insinuations about my FAMILIES financial position without havening any clue regarding what I do for a living or any understanding really of what trading Securities involves.

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Have I ever made any comment about Richards financial position?

Where Have I been Judgmental about his use of credit? But he accused me of be judgmental.

He made various assumptions and insinuations about my FAMILIES financial position without havening any clue regarding what I do for a living or any understanding really of what trading Securities involves.

I didn't mean he was right about your situation, I was only talking about his general advice about debt/credit.

I can't speak for him (so I won't), but me personally, trust and believe when I tell you that credit repair, and credit in general can be very emotional. Whether you have it, don't have, want to have it....it can be a blessing and a curse. Trust me when I tell you I know what you're going through. Both the highs and lows.

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Use your credit and financing opportunities WISELY.

Don't let anyone on here dissuade you from obtaining financing on a Home Loan Purchase with a Mortgage.

Every Financial Planner in the country would suggest the used of a loan/mortgage is a WISE use of your financial position.

There is nothing wrong with using credit as long as you use it wisely.

When you use your Credit make sure you can pay those bills.

Just about every business in the world has used credit. How many people have obtained home ownership with a loan? Bajillions. How many people have successfully used credit to obtain a new vehicle? Bazillions. They have used it wisely and you need to do the same.

First of all, people like to throw around the word “judgmental” as if there is something wrong with making judgments…there isn’t. Only our “let’s not hurt anybody’s feelings or make them feel uncomfortable” society makes “judgmental” a bad word today.

You are right, I didn’t know what you do for a living (may I also point out that you don’t know what I do for a living or how many years I’ve been doing it…I also don’t know your net worth nor do you know mine; which is, after all, the true measure* of how successful one is with their personal finances). What I know of you (essentially all we can know of each other) is based on what you (and I) have posted during our time here. Since you’ve been a member of the forum and from what you’ve posted, it appears that you’ve had some credit/debt/credit report issues to deal with – anybody reading those posts would reach the same conclusion…that neither makes you a bad or good person; it’s simply an observation.

That said, when it comes to espousing an opinion - a philosophy of how to handle money/credit/debt (and gathering those opinions is the purpose of this thread) I think it quite reasonable to take into account that person’s “history” of how that philosophy has worked for them…if what I read of your posts here gave me a totally incorrect “picture” then I apologize.

If you believe your approach to money and personal finance is the proper way to go, that’s great; I’ll still do things my way and whenever the question is asked, I’m going to tell people what I think and why…it’s always up to them to agree or disagree.

At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is what works in the long-term.

Long term, it doesn’t matter what rate of return someone is making now or what their present family net income happens to be…there are a lot of broke people living in $500K homes and driving $100K cars (I call those folks “broke” because one relatively small problem will bring down their carefully laid plans in a heartbeat)…what really separates the wheat from the chaff when it comes to personal finance is who will have a financially independent lifestyle when they are 50 or 60 or 80 – a lifestyle that isn’t dependent on a paycheck or a hoped-for inheritance.

After many yeas of following the conventional “wisdom” (mortgages being “good” being part of that wisdom) and getting to know quite a few truly wealthy people (who made it; not inherited it) I am very firmly convinced that every person’s best chance of building personal wealth is to stop giving their income (whatever their level of income happens to be) to everybody else (in the form of payments) instead of giving it to themselves.

P.S.

I can’t say with absolute certainty what the number is nor do I know if you are referring to the entire history or the world or just the U.S. in the post-industrial age but I truly doubt that there have been a “billion” businesses in total in the entire history of the U.S. and certainly not all of them use or used debt. That would be even more applicable with regards to personal debt; until the 1960s, personal debt was almost unheard except for mortgages and even those were not plentiful – actually saving for a purchase and then buying it was very much the norm. :)

*I thought I should clarify this statement a bit…I am not referring to a “my net worth is bigger than your net worth” sort of comparison; I’m simply trying to convey the importance of actually having a positive “net worth” and that having a positive net worh is probably the best overall measure of how well a person has handled their finances through life; regardless of how "large" the specific number of $$$.

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After many yeas of following the conventional “wisdom” (mortgages being “good” being part of that wisdom) and getting to know quite a few truly wealthy people (who made it; not inherited it) I am very firmly convinced that every person’s best chance of building personal wealth is to stop giving their income (whatever their level of income happens to be) to everybody else (in the form of payments) instead of giving it to themselves.

Okay I hope you are sitting down; I actually agree with this. Robert has made a very good point here. If we give ALL of our money away in interest to creditors, that is interest that we could have made ourselves. This is like the concept of opportunity cost in Economics.

I hold the view that using credit conservatively is okay as long as its not out of control. I don't take the #1 position listed in this thread, but it is still true that if I have even 1 credit card, the interest that I do pay on that could possibly go in my pocket instead assuming that I have a good investment.

Now if one does not carry a balance and PIF every month, then you are not paying interest and that does not apply though.

It is possible to use a little credit and have investments at the same time, because you usually don't touch the investment funds until later. A credit card might provide a short term avenue to keep from touching your investment funds.

But this is America, it is okay to agree to disagree.

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Just popping in a with a little note. So far, everyone has maintained a level of civility, but please make sure we keep it that way. ;)

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Just popping in a with a little note. So far, everyone has maintained a level of civility, but please make sure we keep it that way. ;)

So what are you answers to the poll?

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Just popping in a with a little note. So far, everyone has maintained a level of civility, but please make sure we keep it that way. ;)

Ummmm.........WHAT?

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Ideally, I'd pick #1. But I will have to go with #2, because of mortgages, which is the #1 reason I am working on my credit to begin with. It would FEEL great to be in the Good Credit Club, too, but I resent that things are set up to push us toward the decision of using debt. We have no credit "worthiness" unless we've at least tried some debt on for size. Interest, unless I'm earning it, is a waste of my money. I will open more cards as the opportunity arises, but they most likely will be cut up like the others. Too tempting.

There is some great info in this thread and I appreciate everyone giving their opinions!

Edited to add: I think it's perfectly fine to get loans for education, also.

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Ideally, I'd pick #1. But I will have to go with #2, because of mortgages, which is the #1 reason I am working on my credit to begin with. It would FEEL great to be in the Good Credit Club, too, but I resent that things are set up to push us toward the decision of using debt. We have no credit "worthiness" unless we've at least tried some debt on for size. Interest, unless I'm earning it, is a waste of my money. I will open more cards as the opportunity arises, but they most likely will be cut up like the others. Too tempting.

There is some great info in this thread and I appreciate everyone giving their opinions!

Edited to add: I think it's perfectly fine to get loans for education, also.

Mortugages:

I know this is a very difficult myth to dispel but you do not need to "improve" your FICO score to get a great mortgage.

1. Pay your rent early or on time for at least a couple of years (and the same for all your other monthly bills (utilities, etc)...

2. Have no unresolved (as in unpaid) bad debts...

3. Buy a reasonably priced house for your income level (the goal is to have a monthly mortgage payment [PIT] of no more than 25% of your take home pay)...

4. Put 20% down (this should be a no-brainer as paying PMI is simply dumb no matter what one thinks about credit/debt/FICO scores.

Do the above and you'll qualify for a traditional mortgage at the best interest going and you'll have a debt service that won't be a strain on your budge. Now...you won't get a loan "on-line" and/or from some "lending for dummies" place but I'd avoid those mortgage lenders/brokers anyway.

EDUCATION DEBT:

I also know a lot of people will disagree with me about this as well but I can't disagree more about taking loans for education...there are simply far too many alternatives to pay for education without debt that it simply doesn't make sense...what makes it worse is that people take that loans and then keep them around for twenty years.

Anybody that thinks student loans are a good idea should spend some time in the student loan SECTION of the board or just do a search on student loan related threads that don't even make it to that section.

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Sorry, but on that i will disagree with you. I'm not going to wait to get the money for my degree. I need to be in school NOW.

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Sorry, but on that i will disagree with you. I'm not going to wait to get the money for my degree. I need to be in school NOW.

Of course you are free to disagree but how about offering some substantive reasons for the disagreement???

I hold multiple undergraduate, one graduate and working on another graduate degree and I didn't/don't borrow money to do it.

I've used grants, scholarships, employer reimbursement and other sources of funds but mostly, I've simply paid for it out of my income (my parents did not and could not help me nor would I have asked them)...it is hardly necessary to borrow money to go to school...a lot of people think it's easier (and it likely is, on the front end) but it sure isn't on the back end.

Again, anybody considering a student loan should spend some time in the Student Loan section of this board.

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Sorry, but on that i will disagree with you. I'm not going to wait to get the money for my degree. I need to be in school NOW.

You don't have to borrow money to go to school, it's just easier to borrow money than work for it. There are thousands of little scholarships all over the country, and you can usually buy a list of them for relatively cheap if you can't find what you need for free. You might have to write a hundred essays over the summer, and you'll receive only a fraction of them, but it's free money. There are grants. There is working while you go and paying what you can. There is doing as much as possible at a cheaper community college before transferring elsewhere.

Check out http://fastweb.com/ and http://www.collegeboard.com/splash/ for info on scholarships and financing you may not have even heard of. Apply for every single scholarship you meet the qualifications for, even if it's just a $100 scholarship.

What's more important to you? Easy money that you have to pay back for twenty years, or getting through school debt free? The money is out there, but it's not going to fall into your lap. Go get it.

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You don't have to borrow money to go to school, it's just easier to borrow money than work for it. There are thousands of little scholarships all over the country, and you can usually buy a list of them for relatively cheap if you can't find what you need for free. You might have to write a hundred essays over the summer, and you'll receive only a fraction of them, but it's free money. There are grants. There is working while you go and paying what you can. There is doing as much as possible at a cheaper community college before transferring elsewhere.

Check out http://fastweb.com/ and http://www.collegeboard.com/splash/ for info on scholarships and financing you may not have even heard of. Apply for every single scholarship you meet the qualifications for, even if it's just a $100 scholarship.

What's more important to you? Easy money that you have to pay back for twenty years, or getting through school debt free? The money is out there, but it's not going to fall into your lap. Go get it.

What about for graduate school?

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Thank you both.

Robert, I said I didn't want to wait. I think that's a pretty substantive reason to disagree with doing things your way. Time is a huge factor for most people. Also, my school is not that expensive. Adding up all the loans I've taken out, including at my current school, I will owe $10k plus the interest. But I can't afford to pay as I go.

Looksbothways, thank you for all the links and info, but I would appreciate it if people wouldn't assume that I am waiting for things to fall in my lap. If I were, I wouldn't be in school. My income barely covers my bills. I don't even own a real bed, because I refuse to finance one. I don't have the income to pay as I go - hence why I'm in school. Some of my tuition was paid for by grants and scholarships. I also work full-time and don't have an entire summer to write a hundred essays. I will, however, use the info that you've given me; it would be stupid not to.

What's more important to me: avoiding paying more, or learning now so I can get a better income? That would be option B.

I know you both meant to be helpful, and I appreciate it, but the tone is a bit much. Ratchet it down a notch! People do appreciate the info! :)

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It's all a matter of how much you're willing to do in order to come out of school debt free. It's not an easy thing to do. You choose to minimize expenses and work full time, but borrow some money. It's your choice, and there's nothing wrong with doing what you think is best, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to do otherwise.

You don't have a whole summer to write essays, but you have free time, or you wouldn't be on the internet, so you do have time to write them. I'm not saying there's any shame at all in not wanting to give up your limited free time, because there isn't, I'm just saying that it's still possible if it was something you were determined to do. Financing is ongoing. At this point you'd be trying for scholarships for the fall semester next year or, possibly, summer semester if you're going through the summer.

I posted what I did because you disagreed with the notion that anyone can get through school debt free by claiming that you couldn't wait on money. I gave ways to get money, even now. The fact that you chose to take on a debt doesn't change the fact that anyone can get through without it, and it doesn't change the fact that, even at this point, you could get through the rest of school without any further debt. I wasn't attacking your choice. I was refuting the idea that it's not possible for everyone.

Higher education is never an unexpected emergency situation that just has to be started by next week. It just isn't.

What about for graduate school?

Graduate school too. Those aren't the only two resources out there. It was just two that I knew off the top of my head. There is a LOT of college money out there for someone determined to get it.

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