So close to getting rid of Cas, but Jefferson Capital strikes again

[LoveToGod]

I was down to 1 CA per CRA, but now I see that Jefferson Capital is on Experian. I have to assume it is on the others too.

I disputed it online so that if they don't delete I can send the FCRA 623 letter. I have not received a dunning from them yet. Is that a violation. I have heard yes and no.

Any other ideas of what I should do with this? They are trying to collect for Imagine/First Bank of Delaware. I sent them the FCRA 623 letter, and they removed the account from all 3 CRAS, but Jefferson Capital took its place.

I am preparing the DV now and will probably send it in the morning.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

I never really understand why people (speaking generically here) seem to feel that getting something removed from a credit report is the same as actually taking care of the problem...the problem is the debt; the symptom is the entry on the credit report.

Other than the passage of time, the only thing that will settle a debt is to either pay it or settle it

I would suggest you work out something with the debt owner so that there is nothing for them to report.

[lovebug5]

I was down to 1 CA per CRA, but now I see that Jefferson Capital is on Experian. I have to assume it is on the others too.

I disputed it online so that if they don't delete I can send the FCRA 623 letter. I have not received a dunning from them yet. Is that a violation. I have heard yes and no.

Any other ideas of what I should do with this? They are trying to collect for Imagine/First Bank of Delaware. I sent them the FCRA 623 letter, and they removed the account from all 3 CRAS, but Jefferson Capital took its place.

I am preparing the DV now and will probably send it in the morning.

Assuming that Jefferson Capital is a CA and not an OC, you can't use the Section 623 letter. That is reserved for OC's only, which I'm sure that you know.

EDIT: It appears as though many people on the forums are now condoning the use of the Section 623 letter for CA's, when it was previously only used for OC's. So ignore this.

[LoveToGod]

I never really understand why people (speaking generically here) seem to feel that getting something removed from a credit report is the same as actually taking care of the problem...the problem is the debt; the symptom is the entry on the credit report.

Other than the passage of time, the only thing that will settle a debt is to either pay it or settle it

I would suggest you work out something with the debt owner so that there is nothing for them to report.

I never opened this account. It was the result of Fraud.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

I never opened this account. It was the result of Fraud.

Then I don't understand why you are wasting time using "623 letters" and such???

All you should need to do is send them a copy of your ID theft complaint with the FTC and with your local PD report and this should get removed from your bureau reports pretty much instantly; well, at least very quickly.

[LoveToGod]

Assuming that Jefferson Capital is a CA and not an OC, you can't use the Section 623 letter. That is reserved for OC's only, which I'm sure that you know.

EDIT: It appears as though many people on the forums are now condoning the use of the Section 623 letter for CA's, when it was previously only used for OC's. So ignore this.

I still use the DV letters, but if they are ignored, then I use an FCRA 623 letter, because I know those can't be ignored, and they have to respond within 30 days.

With Experian, they have me in special handling and only one person will handle my report. I will have to call that person back later and tell her about this account.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

...

I still don't understand why you are taking a difficult and time consuming route when sending copies of the ID theft documents shoudl kill it with very little if any problem???

[LoveToGod]

I still don't understand why you are taking a difficult and time consuming route when sending copies of the ID theft documents shoudl kill it with very little if any problem???

If I file an ID theft report I will have to have some way to prove what I am saying. It is not like I have a smoking gun or something. I mean there is no paper trail to refer to on it. What am I going to tell the Police when I file the report? Just that someone opened an account in my name and I don't know who or why?

I am not sure I can go that route, due to lack of evidence on my part.

[Focus2069]

Just that someone opened an account in my name and I don't know who or why?

yes.

although, if it really is your account (and im not saying it is), there is a fine for filing a false police report.

most cases of ID theft, there is no "smoking gun" as you refer to it.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

....

If that's the truth, yes...that's exactly what you tell them.

If someone opened an account in your name without your knowledge or consent, then that IS fraud (commonly called ID thef) which is, by itself, reason enough to file a police report.

It is certainly possible that an account being reported on a person's credit is the result of a simple mistake and not criminal fraud, but to the best of my knowkege, it is not the consumer's responsibility to prove that one way or the other. Certainly, any evidence you do have should be made available to the police but it is not your job to go out and investigate/do their job for them.

Were I a creditor and someone just "claimed" and account wasn't their account and/or that they never opened such an account but was unwilling to follow-through with an FTC and police report, I'd likely ignore such claims too and keep trying to collect.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

yes.

although, if it really is your account (and im not saying it is), there is a fine for filing a false police report.

most cases of ID theft, there is no "smoking gun" as you refer to it.

Actually, in most jurisditcions, it can involve more than just a fine...I'd say in most cases it's at least a significant misdomenor if not a low fellony; so...isn't something to be done lightly!

On the other hand, if somene opened an account in my name or I though someone had, I'd be down to the PD the same day I found out about it.

[Bigwoodystyl]

Actually, in most jurisditcions, it can involve more than just a fine...I'd say in most cases it's at least a significant misdomenor if not a low fellony; so...isn't something to be done lightly!

On the other hand, if somene opened an account in my name or I though someone had, I'd be down to the PD the same day I found out about it.

I agree. If it's ID Theft, fill out the affidavit and PD report and get it off the CR, ASAP! To the PD the same day, all paperwork cmrrr the same day!! Why let something sit on your CR that isn't yours without doing the above?!

Besides what is the OP going to do if they successfully send everything he asked for and they reinvestigate and then verify the account??!! At that point, does the OP say, "My bad, guys, I meant to claim this as ID Theft.. and, by the way, here is my affidavit and police report!!"

How believable is that?

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

I agree. If it's ID Theft, fill out the affidavit and PD report and get it off the CR, ASAP! To the PD the same day, all paperwork cmrrr the same day!! Why let something sit on your CR that isn't yours without doing the above?!

Besides what is the OP going to do if they successfully send everything he asked for and they reinvestigate and then verify the account??!! At that point, does the OP say, "My bad, guys, I meant to claim this as ID Theft.. and, by the way, here is my affidavit and police report!!"

How believable is that?

AMEN!

I do think the "ID Theft" claim is a bit overused but the bottom line is, if an account is being reflected on your report that you know is truly not your account then you shouldn't be afraid to claim it as ID Theft.

On the other hand, wow unto him who claims ID Theft (and especially if they file a PD reprot) when they are just using it as an excuse to escape paying a debt they know they owe and/or get something truthful removed from a credit report.

What I find most disturbing are those who allow their friends and relatives get away with this - although I'm sure the stats are changing now, it's been true that most ID thefts are done by people who know us (parents, children, friends, etc) and it's frustating when people who have been victimized refuse to hold these people accountable for their scummy actions.

[lovebug5]

Besides what is the OP going to do if they successfully send everything he asked for and they reinvestigate and then verify the account??!! At that point, does the OP say, "My bad, guys, I meant to claim this as ID Theft.. and, by the way, here is my affidavit and police report!!" How believable is that?

In absolutely no offense to the OP, the above paragraph seems to ring true on many of his posts. Once one tactic being used doesn't work, another trick gets pulled out of the sleeve solely to obtain a deletion. Between Woody and Robert, I'm glad that people are saying something - because I don't necessarily think most people recognize the ramifications of what they're doing...And I think it's incredibly important for people to understand that there's a point you should come to where you realize that you're just not going to get something off - and deal with it.

[looksbothways]

...Any other ideas of what I should do with this?...

Pay it and let the paid collection age.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Pay it and let the paid collection age.

I am shocked and appalled!!!

How dare you suggest someone pay a bill they quite likely do owe and actually have to live with the consequencees!

[TTigggers]

[LoveToGod]

In absolutely no offense to the OP, the above paragraph seems to ring true on many of his posts. Once one tactic being used doesn't work, another trick gets pulled out of the sleeve solely to obtain a deletion. Between Woody and Robert, I'm glad that people are saying something - because I don't necessarily think most people recognize the ramifications of what they're doing...And I think it's incredibly important for people to understand that there's a point you should come to where you realize that you're just not going to get something off - and deal with it.

Under normal circumstances I am very honest, straight forward, what you see is what you get, on the up and up. Just ask anyone who has known me personally for any period of time. I am straighter than the cracks between the cement pads in the sidewalk. It actually drives some people nuts.

But when it comes my credit rating. I take a totally different approach, because I that the current FICO scoring system is very unfair. A paid collection should never lower your credit score. That is just backwards. If I pay it and they don't agree to delete it, then it will keep you from getting prime credit, and they will refresh the last date activity to make it look like a brand new charge off. This could mean losing 30 to 50 points off your credit score for paying a bill. That is WRONG. People can disagree with me, and they are entitled to their opinion, but that ticks me off to no end.

I resent paid collections that kick you in the gut when it comes to your credit score. It is just plain wrong. Some people on here get this.

I did do a pay for delete for one CA, but that is because they agreed to delete it if I paid, so I paid it. It has been my experience that most CAs will not delete the item if you pay it. So you lose what little leverage you have.

I think it is very unfair to be stuck with a paid collection for 7 years. In my opinion that is unjust. This then becomes a game that we are playing, and I cry foul at the FICO system when it does this.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Now I understand!

You are a fine, upstanding, straight arrow, straight shooter, honest as the day is long kind of guy with high morals…

Until your FICO score is involved…

then it’s Katie bar the door – whatever it takes (claiming a debt isn’t your debt when you know it is…claiming a tradeline is wrong when you know it isn’t…paying a debt if and only if they take it off your credit report so that your true methods of handling debt in the past don’t keep you from getting more debt in the future kind of guy - after all, debt has been such a blessing in your life so far and it’s SO unfair that future creditors might actually get to see your real credit past!

I'm glad we got that cleared up.

Dah-Nile ain’t just a river in Egypt is it!

EDIT: What is really sad is that so many people see absolutely nothing wrong with lying or doing whatever it takes to erase their true credit history and always think that this “next time” things will be different and they'll suddenly start handling credit well (despite all evidence to the contrary).

[LoveToGod]

Now I understand!

EDIT: What is really sad is that so many people see absolutely nothing wrong with lying or doing whatever it takes to erase their true credit history and always think that this “next time” things will be different and they'll suddenly start handling credit well (despite all evidence to the contrary).

Yes. I think it can be different. If someone is going through the trouble to clean it up it should be plenty of incentive to not mess it up again. People learn from past mistakes. It does not have to occur again.

We just have to learn to manage things differently or the same thing will occur. There is this saying that if we do the same thing we have always done we will always get the same result and its true. So the thing is to not repeat the same past mistake.

It does no good to clean up credit only to screw it up again.

As someone on here puts it, credit repair has two facets. Purging the old and building the new. If we screw up the new, then we have just screwed it up again.

Me, I am not looking to go on a shopping spree, but I just want to have good credit so that I will have options open to me in the future. I don't think that all debt is bad debt, like a mortgage for example or something that you could easily pay off in a short period.

I think its okay to take on one debt at a time, as long as its not a stack of multiple debts that one can't handle.

But as far as the FICO and those buzzards, fry them!

[lovebug5]

I think it is very unfair to be stuck with a paid collection for 7 years. In my opinion that is unjust. This then becomes a game that we are playing, and I cry foul at the FICO system when it does this.

May I ask...

You think it's incredibly unfair to be "stuck" with a paid collection for 7 years.

Do you think it was fair that you failed to pay your bill, leaving whomever the OC was at the time with no other choice than to attempt to collect their money through a CA (which, in many cases, requires the OC to pay the CA)? And now, because you made the decision to not pay your bills when they were due you're not willing to face the consequences of it?

That OC might never get their money from you. Therefore, you've not only wasted their time but their money as well. Why is it so wrong that someone's reporting this information to the CRA's to warn off other lenders? To tell them that you're someone who has a habit of not paying their bills, letting their bills go to collections, etc?

Believe me, I'm no CA...Nor am I an OC...But I think that part of the credit repair process is taking responsibility for everything. It's just like being a little kid - you touch a hot stove, you're going to burn your hand...Right? Well you don't pay your bills, your credit report is going to reflect that - and paying 5 years later shouldn't negate the fact that you've got a terrible history.

Just my opinion.

[LoveToGod]

May I ask...

You think it's incredibly unfair to be "stuck" with a paid collection for 7 years.

Do you think it was fair that you failed to pay your bill, leaving whomever the OC was at the time with no other choice than to attempt to collect their money through a CA (which, in many cases, requires the OC to pay the CA)? And now, because you made the decision to not pay your bills when they were due you're not willing to face the consequences of it?

That OC might never get their money from you. Therefore, you've not only wasted their time but their money as well. Why is it so wrong that someone's reporting this information to the CRA's to warn off other lenders? To tell them that you're someone who has a habit of not paying their bills, letting their bills go to collections, etc?

Believe me, I'm no CA...Nor am I an OC...But I think that part of the credit repair process is taking responsibility for everything. It's just like being a little kid - you touch a hot stove, you're going to burn your hand...Right? Well you don't pay your bills, your credit report is going to reflect that - and paying 5 years later shouldn't negate the fact that you've got a terrible history.

Just my opinion.

They have every right to be paid, and they should be paid, but something about the system needs to be adjusted.

I think it would be fair for unpaid collections to exist for 7 years, but that if you pay it that it should fall off in 2 years or something like that.

I think the shelf life of a paid collection should be much shorter. You are right. It is not fair that they don't get paid, but as you probably know if they sell the account they will never get paid even if you have the money. If go to the OC to pay them they won't accept it because they sold the account. Well, we can't predict when that is going to happen.

I think if someone is going to repair their credit it should be with the understanding that we are not going to screw this up again. I thought this was kind of understood.

[looksbothways]

Me, I am not looking to go on a shopping spree, but I just want to have good credit so that I will have options open to me in the future. I don't think that all debt is bad debt, like a mortgage for example or something that you could easily pay off in a short period.

Good credit comes from paying your bills on time and not shirking your debts. It's built over time. Good credit does not come from clearing everything in bankruptcy, gathering up some more debt, failing to pay again, then saying "oops, my bad, I want good credit now, could you just delete all the evidence that I'm a bad credit risk? If not, I'm still not going to pay you."

There is nothing unfair about a CA refusing to delete the evidence that it took you X number of years to clear up a debt. There's nothing wrong with trying to negotiate a pfd, but if they refuse to delete, the right thing to do is pay the debt that's yours and move on. Whether you like it or not, you are an awful credit risk. The only way to make it better is to use new credit wisely and let all your past indiscretion age off. It affects you less and less as it ages.

Of course, at this point my opinion is that you're looking to get your past erased immediately so you can go right back out and get you some free money and start the cycle all over again. You need to learn to live on what you have and build an emergency backup before you jump into the credit industry again.

Edit: And for the record, you should thank your lucky stars you live in Texas and not some place like Ohio. Thanks to Ohio's 15 year SOL I've paid off things recently that were incurred in the late 90's...things that were incurred when I was 18, newly married, and financially retarded. Now I'm just sitting back and letting everything age so I can buy a house in 18 months.

[LoveToGod]

Edit: And for the record, you should thank your lucky stars you live in Texas and not some place like Ohio. Thanks to Ohio's 15 year SOL I've paid off things recently that were incurred in the late 90's...things that were incurred when I was 18, newly married, and financially retarded. Now I'm just sitting back and letting everything age so I can buy a house in 18 months.

Wow! 15 years is a long time, but read my previous 2 posts about this.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

...

You can rationalize all you want…the only reason people think it will be “different” this time is because they simply refuse to consider the much more likely alternative.

I would say that anyone who has gotten into trouble with debt, filed bankruptcy, got new debt and than got into trouble with the post-bankruptcy debt (and is now trying to “clean-up” that negative credit history)…does not sound like a good candidate for having a different result this time around - you don't even have to be a math teacher to figure those odds.

But as I said above, lot’s of people think this way so there will always be plenty of company as you and those with your outlook take their never-ending trip of credit repair/new debt/credit repair/new debt.

Keep arranging those deck chairs!