Question about Debt Validation

[dbinaz]

I have 2 scenarios here:

1- I sent request for validation 7/5 to attorney, JA Cambece Law (debt collector). I rec'd letter 7/8 stating the firm rec'd my request to provide verification. I still haven't rec'd anything to date from them.

The original creditor is BofA. The "current" creditor is Arrow Financial Services.

Arrow Financial Services has reported info on my credit report. Do I need to send a validation letter to Arrow, a letter to have them remove the info from my credit report or a violation letter?

2- I sent request for validation to debt collector (Simm Assoc) on 7/15. Rec'd a letter dated 7/29 account has been placed with Resurgent Capital Services, LP and enclosed I should find an original validation of debt that verifies the debit (info provided isn't what was requested in original letter).

I rec'd a letter dtd 8/1, stating "we have rec'd your recent inquiry regarding this acct and are in the process of investigating your claim."

In the meantime, the previous/original creditor is HSBC Bank, (Best Buy). The current creditor is LVNV Funding and the debt collector is Resurgent Capital Services. According to the privacy notice provided, Resurgent Capital and LVNV are all related companies under the "Sherman Companies".

LVNV reported info to my credit bureau, although I never rec'd validation of debt. The req for validation was sent to Resurgent Capital not LVNV. Do I need to send a req for validation or a letter to credit bureau requesting removal of info from LVNV or a violation letter?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

D

[Credithis]

Do what I did, skip the "middle men" CA's they employ and send a DV to LVNV CMRRR. Tell them you dispute the alledged debt entirely. Tell them anything sent on their letterhead is not going to be accepted as validation nor any affidavit from one of their employees.

If you do this then you can nail em if they pass it on to another CA flunky for continued collection activity after a proper DV. I believe letting them know up front you play hardball.

Send it to LVNC Corporate Legal Staff as the header of your letter.

[dbinaz]

What about Arrow Financial. Can I send a DV although the didn't send me a letter but did report on my CR?

[CreditFixCD]

I sent request for validation 7/5 to attorney, JA Cambece Law (debt collector). I rec'd letter 7/8 stating the firm rec'd my request to provide verification. I still haven't rec'd anything to date from them.

Now dispute this debt with the CBs. Let them know that you sent for debt viladation and hopefully you can make a copy of the green card to show that they recieved the DV letter.

btw-is it in or out of SOL

I

sent request for validation to debt collector (Simm Assoc) on 7/15. Rec'd a letter dated 7/29 account has been placed with Resurgent Capital Services, LP and enclosed I should find an original validation of debt that verifies the debit (info provided isn't what was requested in original letter).

I rec'd a letter dtd 8/1, stating "we have rec'd your recent inquiry regarding this acct and are in the process of investigating your claim."

In the meantime, the previous/original creditor is HSBC Bank, (Best Buy). The current creditor is LVNV Funding and the debt collector is Resurgent Capital Services. According to the privacy notice provided, Resurgent Capital and LVNV are all related companies under the "Sherman Companies".

LVNV reported info to my credit bureau, although I never rec'd validation of debt. The req for validation was sent to Resurgent Capital not LVNV. Do I need to send a req for validation or a letter to credit bureau requesting removal of info from LVNV or a violation letter?

Maybe you should go the the NACA site and e-mail the attorney's in your state and tell them your situation.

[lronclawbigun]

Deleted for spam.

[LUEser]

I have a question, what's LVNV's addy?

The one reported on the CR is the same addy as the one for Resurgent. 15 S. Main St. Greenville, SC.

LVNV, in my understanding of their role in the Sherman Hydra of companies, is simply a holding company, used for the purposes of skirting the FDCPA, or at least attempting to.

[LUEser]

In the purview of the FDCPA

Section 803

4.

The term “creditor” means any person who offers or

extends credit creating a debt or to whom a debt is

owed, but such term does not include any person to the

extent that he receives an assignment or transfer of a

debt in default solely for the purpose of facilitating collection

of such debt for another.

and

6.

(6) The term “debt collector” means any person who uses

any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails

in any business the principal purpose of which is the

collection of any debts, or who regularly collects or

attempts to collect, directly or indirectly, debts owed

or due or asserted to be owed or due another. Notwithstanding

the exclusion provided by clause (F) of

the last sentence of this paragraph, the term includes

any creditor who, in the process of collecting his own

debts, uses any name other than his own which would

indicate that a third person is collecting or attempting

to collect such debts. For the purpose of section

808(6), such term also includes any person who uses

any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails

in any business the principal purpose of which is the

enforcement of security interests. The term does not

include—.

F3

(F) any person collecting or attempting to collect any

debt owed or due or asserted to be owed or due

another to the extent such activity

(iii) concerns a debt which was not in default at the

time it was obtained by such person; or

Ok, so let's start digging around in this thing.

LVNV doesn't meet the creditor standard of the FDCPA as laid out in 803. We have the Arbuckle FTC Opinion letter clarifying that (though it's not law, it is persuasive in the eyes of many judicial officals, after all the FTC is supposed to be the regulating body).

Section 803(6) of the FDCPA defines the term "debt collector" as "any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the collection of any debts, or who regularly collects or attempts to collect, directly or indirectly, debts owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another." In our view, a party that purchases delinquent accounts from the party to which the debts were originally owed and attempts to collect them from the consumer debtors fits clearly within that definition. The party is attempting to collect debts that were "owed or due another" and the fact that title to the accounts is passed to the collector in no way changes that fact.

Then we have the 803 definition of debt collector. Three key points here

1.) any instrumentality of interstate commerce- "Contracting" with Resurgent, is a form of commerce in an attempt to collect a debt.

2.) If one could pierce the corporate veil, and see that LVNV and Resurgent are one and the same, even if they do claim creditor, they're using a name other than their own

3.) They're not excluded by provision F, because the debt was in fact in default.

LVNV is a debt collector, no doubt about it.

[Debt Guy]

Then we have the 803 definition of debt collector. Three key points here

1.) any instrumentality of interstate commerce- "Contracting" with Resurgent, is a form of commerce in an attempt to collect a debt.

2.) If one could pierce the corporate veil, and see that LVNV and Resurgent are one and the same, even if they do claim creditor, they're using a name other than their own

3.) They're not excluded by provision F, because the debt was in fact in default.

LVNV is a debt collector, no doubt about it.

It strikes me that you are stating opinions and not facts. And you are stretching hard for your opinions.

#1 is nonsense. If I contract with a CA to collect debts I own, it does not make me a CA or in any way I can tell is an instrumentality of anything.

You do not know that LVNV and any of its subsidiaries are "one and the same". I've worked for a number of companies that either was a subsidiary of a parent company or which established subsidiary companies for one reason or another. The lawyers were always carping about the required characteristics to be maintained to prevent a "merger" of the parent and/or subsidiaries. Maybe LVNV maintains those characteristics and maybe not. You don't know. I don't know either.

Candidly, I don't care and have a hard time understanding why this is an issue for you. What durn difference does it make? I've never heard of anyone who got a phone call from LVNV. I've never seen a dunning letter on the letterhead of LVNV.

As I recall, you had said something about LVNV skirting the FDCPA. Well, I still don't see how. About the only thing we agree on is that the Act makes LVNV subject to the FDCPA as they purchase debts in default. OK. So what? Your implication is they are doing something nefarious. I fail to see what.

Also, I can't recall if you and I have discussed this "creditor" issue before. If so, I apologize but the term and the context in which it is used is important.

The FDCPA uses the term creditor. Taking the term in the context it was intended (nascar posted an excellent analysis) the word creditor can only mean the original creditor when you are talking about the FDCPA.

For the rest of the world, the term creditor means one to whom money is owed without distinction. That includes the FCRA, at least in my understanding of the language. That is why LVNV is not a creditor for purposes of the FDCPA but reports on your credit report as a creditor. Different meanings in different context for different reasons. Confusing. Context is important.

PS -- did someone delete my earlier post in this thread? I could swear that I posted some answers to your question and that of the OP but I don't know where they went. I got the customary email that someone had responded but I sure don't see my post here now.

Something highly weird is going on.

[LUEser]

We have spoken about the differences in creditor for different purposes. I apologize if my post blurred the two.

FDCPA- LVNV is not a Creditor

FCRA and the rest of TILA- they are.

The issue for, and why it's important is that I'd like find a way to hold LVNV personally liable for the actions of Resurgent.

Which is why I'm "reaching" as you say, for a reason to link the two, and place LVNV in the shoes of a Debt Collector.

It's deceptive for consumers to have on one hand, LVNV on their credit report, but have to go through their agent Resurgent, to get any resolve.

Even the validation notices Resurgent sends out are from Resurgent and not LVNV.

Tell me if an unsophisticated consumer wouldn't find this deceptive.

He calls the number given for LVNV, and gets a rep from Resurgent.

They tell him LVNV owns the account.

So he calls the OC, in my case Credit One. They send him a letter saying that all rights of the account have been transferred to Resurgent Capital services.

Both of the above statements can't be true. Either it was sold to Resurgent or it was sold to LVNV. And if it was transferred to LVNV after it was sold to Resurgent by Resurgent, then LVNV never directly purchased the account from Credit One.

Someone's lying in this scenario, and that's a deceptive business practice.

The whole Sherman business model makes me cringe inside, and like I said before, to me, they're part of my vendetta.

Perhaps I should change my focus, not to JDBs generally, but to Sherman itself.

But, I'll find out soon enough exactly how this hydra works, as in about 7 days, they'll have a nice little summons on someone's desk when they get there in the morning.

I like to call it obsessive curiosity, mixed with a bit of vigilantism, sprinkled with the fury fueled by a complete disgust with the very existence of these types of businesses.

Edit: Yeah your post was deleted, I remember now, that's the reason I posted my second response. Odd...

[Debt Guy]

Just curious -- did you sue Sherman? How is it going?

[dbinaz]

I sent a DV to both in Sept. Validation response never rec'd. Sent follow-up in Oct. Still nothing rec'd or updated on my CR. I recently sent a letter to CB. What is the next step if the CB doesn't respond or remove these items from my CR? Still within SOL.

[herauntsis]

Two things about all this:

I am helping my niece with her credit -- she has LVNV listed on there as a collection account. If LVNV is reporting the debt as a collection account, aren't they sort of identifying themselves as a CA, do you think?

Also, LVNV seems to tend to report to the credit bureaus without any form of communication directly to the consumer. Remember the part of the FDCPA that says that within 5 days of the CA's initial communication with the consumer, the CA must send the blah blah blah letter? If you have had no prior communication from them, reading your credit report counts as the "initial communication," which means that 5 days after you read your credit report, they have already racked up one violation.