Why Fight a Summons

[notagain]

Dear Admin,

Thank you for accepting my membership to CIC.

I have been served. I have spent hours reading through posts, trying different searches with various keywords. This has been time consuming and only partially fruitful. I know that I am brand new to this forum. So, with some trepidation, I humbly submit that you add this thread as a sticky.

I was served, and would like to fight. But, I don't know why or what for! I know I don't have the money to pay the alleged debt. I also realize the debt is part of a fiat money machine that the banks use to enslave mankind. There are a million reasons to fight. But why is everyone here fighting? What are their reasons? Does CIC have it's own official philosophy vis a vis going to court?

Also, what are the PRACTICAL reasons for fighting? In other words, is it WORTH it? I have so many things going on, I don't know if the time spent will be time WELL spent. What have I to stand to gain? What are my chances of prevailing?

I hope you understand where I am coming from. I have less than 20 days (so my summons says) to respond. So, I want to start preparing right away, but am hesitant? What happens if I just let them get their default judgement?

Also, some here, have countersued, and won large judgements. Is this available to anyone who has been served or been contacted by a CA?

I'm hoping to get lots of responses to this question. So, why have YOU fought your summons? What are all the reasons you can think of? What do you think the chances are for a reasonably intelligent defendant?

My intention is to create a thread that organizes all the reasons why one would want to fight a summons in just one place. Then, all newbies who find this website, and who have been served will find out if fighting is for them.

I look forward to hearing from all of you.

Thanks everyone for your kind reception. God bless.

notagain

[merrybucks]

I fought because I was sued for a debt that I did not owe.

[legal_loansharking]

Here are my reasons to fight in no particular order:

1.) Typically a JDB is the one that hires an attorney and files suit against a debtor. A JDB purchased a loan portfolio of debt charged-off (written-off) as a loss from let's say a credit card company for pennies on the dollar, yes you did owe the credit card company legitimately, but the JDB only paid pennies on the dollar and attempts to collect the full amount from you with extremely high fees and interest.

2.) A JDB will use your credit report as a collection vehicle to coerce monies from a debtor even though the status of the debt is past the statute of limitations in the state you reside. Yes the reporting period is 7 years according to the FCRA, but in local civil courts, the state SOL is applied.

3.) JDB's abuse debtors and run scams on debtors to get them to make a payment so the SOL resets and then they can file suit.

4.) Most JDB's do not have paperwork to support their claim that a debtor owes them any money, they have lawyers who file suits all over the country hoping for a default judgment, the minute you attempt to defend, they will either withdrawl their claim or do not show up in court.

5.) Unless the JDB can prove a chain of custody for the debt, such as a sales agreement from the original creditor for the amount they purchased the debt for, they can pound sand. without that, anything they have to say in a legal proceeding is heresay.

In gerneral most people who borrow really intend to pay their debts back with interest, but due to laws passed the credit card companies do take advantage of people. For example: If I go buy that big screen tv and put it on my credit card and I charged 2000.00 and the rate on my card is 9.9%. I know I put it on a card with a 9.9% rate. I pay this monthly payment for a few months, all of a sudden the rate goes from 9.9 to 19.9. I call the credit card company to find out why and they really dont give you a reason at all. My problem with this scenerio is that when you bought that tv and put it on this card, you knew the rate was 9.9 how can they change the rate when you never made a late payment on that card?

At the same time this card raised the rate, it is a rat race, your other cards will also do the same due to something on your credit report. Next you are paying a few hundred extra for all of your cards every month and can no longer afford them.

The other reasons why people have issues are illness, divorce, job loss. Job loss and illness can almost be lumped into the same category. If you collect disability or collect unemployement, your monthly income decreases through no fault of your own and sometimes its either get treatment, buy your medications, pay your co-pays, eat or pay your bills.

Divorce is a totally different animal. Courts make decisions on peoples lives without really considering all of the facts. Divorces are not typically lumped into 1 case. In PA, it is 3 seperate issues and 3 seperate judges. 1.) Child custody / Spousal Support 2) Marital Assets and Liabilities 3.) Divorce decree.

In my case I had no children, but my ex filed for spousal support. Since I was the main wage earner and her life she was accustomed to shouldn't change according to the judge I had to pay 1/3 of my salary as spousal support. In PA it is taken out of your pay as a wage attachment order. In my case, I had great credit but with 1/3 taken out I could no longer afford to pay all of my bills, and eventually just stopped paying all unsecured debt. Yes, I did appeal the judges ruling, but by the time the appeal was heard all of my cards were charged-off.

The part of this that amazed me was the attention to detail from the courts. They wanted a complete breakdown of every dime you made and where it went. When the judge made his decision, that paperwork was ignored with the exception of income. It's too easy to say well, go get a part-time job somewhere to make up for your deficiency in income.

1)That income can too be considered in the appeal.

2) I worked in technology, the reason why I made good money was because I was on-call 24/7 and yes I did receive calls at all hours. So you really could not cosider another job.

Sorry, got a little off topic, but in essence people are good, they always intend to do the right thing. Different circumstances come up and there is nothing you can do or say about them you just have to keep plugging along, work your way through and hope for the best.

[Recovering Attorney]

Don't fight it if you like having your wages garnished , your bank account seized , even exempt income being trifled with.

Don't fight it so you can confirm thet existence of that great financial gorgon enslaving mankind, you being the latest "victim." After all, you wouldn't want to be treated fairly by gorgon, would you?

[notagain]

I fought because I was sued for a debt that I did not owe.

Hi Merrybucks,

This is a great reason to fight, of course! It was too obvious for me to even include in my question... I used my lines of credit to finance a business venture that utterly failed. I now have several creditors sending letters, phoning, and now one suing. Thanks,

notagain

[notagain]

Here are my reasons to fight in no particular order:

1.) Typically a JDB is the one that hires an attorney and files suit against a debtor. A JDB purchased a loan portfolio of debt charged-off (written-off) as a loss from let's say a credit card company for pennies on the dollar.

2.) A JDB will use your credit report as a collection vehicle to coerce monies from a debtor even though the status of the debt is past the statute of limitations in the state you reside.

3.) JDB's abuse debtors and run scams on debtors to get them to make a payment so the SOL resets and then they can file suit.

4.) Most JDB's do not have paperwork to support their claim that a debtor owes them any money, they have lawyers who file suits all over the country hoping for a default judgment, the minute you attempt to defend, they will either withdrawl their claim or do not show up in court.

5.) Unless the JDB can prove a chain of custody for the debt, such as a sales agreement from the original creditor for the amount they purchased the debt for, they can pound sand.

If I go buy that big screen tv and put it on my credit card and I charged 2000.00 and the rate on my card is 9.9%. I know I put it on a card with a 9.9% rate. I pay this monthly payment for a few months, all of a sudden the rate goes from 9.9 to 19.9. My problem with this scenerio is that when you bought that tv and put it on this card, you knew the rate was 9.9 how can they change the rate when you never made a late payment on that card?

At the same time this card raised the rate, it is a rat race, your other cards will also do the same due to something on your credit report. Next you are paying a few hundred extra for all of your cards every month and can no longer afford them.

The other reasons why people have issues are illness, divorce, job loss. Job loss and illness can almost be lumped into the same category.

Divorce. (edited)

Hi Legal,

Thanks for your reply. What is a 'JDB'? In my mind, point 4 could be a good reason to fight - if it's true they seldom have the legal documentation to prove they are owed the money.

Aside from that, nothing here jumps off the page as a good reason for me to spend the next 2-3 months of my life researching and filing and fighting. BTW, sorry to hear about your circumstances...

So, I may prevail in court and not owe the creditor money. But if I just take the default judgment, and don't pay that, what's the difference? Still not sure what I have to lose if I just roll over and play dead...

notagain

[swirlgirl]

One thing to consider is that with a judgment, they can garnish your wages and seize your bank accounts. They can do this for the entire life of the judgment until the debt is paid back with interest. Most judgments have a statute of limitations of 10 years and then they can be renewed for another 10 years.

So, even though you may not have any money now, what if things turnaround for you in the future? If you can a good joob and then all of a sudden you get hit with a garnishment on your paycheck. Or you go to the store and try to make a purchase with your debit card, only to find that the account has been frozen?

At this point, you have two reasonable options. You can either settle out of court or you can fight it in court. But doing nothing is the last thing you should do.

[nascar]

. But if I just take the default judgment, and don't pay that, what's the difference? Still not sure what I have to lose if I just roll over and play dead...

Since a judgment creditor can generally seize certain assets, including bank accounts, real and personal property, etc., it really doesn't come down to your decision not to pay. You may not have a choice.

[notagain]

Don't fight it if you like having your wages garnished , your bank account seized , even exempt income being trifled with.

Don't fight it so you can confirm thet existence of that great financial gorgon enslaving mankind, you being the latest "victim." After all, you wouldn't want to be treated fairly by gorgon, would you?

Hi Recovering,

Thanks for your reply. I'm self employed, have no money in my bank account and have no 'exempt' income.

Ideological reasons can be good. I spent years when I was younger fighting for them. Nothing good came of it, in fact, a lot of pain. I'm not here to try to change the system anymore. I just want to know what my options are, and determine what the wisest use of my time is. Hope that makes sense. I admire ideological people, btw. I still am one, at heart...

You give the most practical answer to the question so far.

I have thought of working for others, so, this could hurt me. Still not sure it's compelling enough, in and of itself. Because I have no immediate plans...

notagain

[notagain]

One thing to consider is that with a judgment, they can garnish your wages and seize your bank accounts. They can do this for the entire life of the judgment until the debt is paid back with interest. Most judgments have a statute of limitations of 10 years and then they can be renewed for another 10 years.

So, even though you may not have any money now, what if things turnaround for you in the future? If you can a good joob and then all of a sudden you get hit with a garnishment on your paycheck. Or you go to the store and try to make a purchase with your debit card, only to find that the account has been frozen?

At this point, you have two reasonable options. You can either settle out of court or you can fight it in court. But doing nothing is the last thing you should do.

Thanks for your perspective. I didn't know about the renewing of the judgment. Good arguments. Hmm. I'm glad I came here and am getting all your inputs!

notagain

[notagain]

Since a judgment creditor can generally seize certain assets, including bank accounts, real and personal property, etc., it really doesn't come down to your decision not to pay. You may not have a choice.

I own nothing. My spouse is clean, and controls everything. Don't worry, I trust them with my life.

I understand many may not like this arrangement, and respect your opinion - but you have to trust me on this. I don't even care about losing the stuff. If we split, all I would want is my spouse back - that's all that would matter to me!

So, unless I begin owning things, it looks like I won't really be exposed to too much risk. But, I understand things can change, I may get a job. And, what if I did want something in my name just for fun. It could be nice...

Am I missing anything here?

notagain

[merrybucks]

Another option you might consider is BK. Since you own nothing and have no income it might be the best option.

[swirlgirl]

Are you planning on living "off the grid" for the rest of your life? Life can change in a hearbeat. God forbid, but what if your spouse passed away tomorrow? Would you have to get a job, transfer property into your name, get a bank account, etc.

Do what you want. Just know that a judgment stays with you for a long time.

[notagain]

Another option you might consider is BK. Since you own nothing and have no income it might be the best option.

Thanks Merry,

Did that some years back. It was a God-send. But, I'm not sure anything so drastic is necessary this time. Good suggestion, though. Thanks.

notagain

[notagain]

Are you planning on living "off the grid" for the rest of your life? Life can change in a hearbeat. God forbid, but what if your spouse passed away tomorrow? Would you have to get a job, transfer property into your name, get a bank account, etc.

Do what you want. Just know that a judgment stays with you for a long time.

Hi Swirl,

I'd love not to be 'out of the system' forever. I used to be 'off the grid', came back in, but had a business go badly, and have organized my affairs again to protect myself 'back off the grid'. You make some good points. I think I may try to fight this... I'll invest some time into it. I may start a new thread.

Thanks,

notagain