More of a rant than a question

[Aerovette]

In all aspects of finance, there is a price to pay for the inability to make payments on time and a price to pay for not being responsible in your finances. When I bought my first home all alone with no help at 25 years old, I knew I wanted a fixed rate 30 year mortgage even though I was better able to afford the lower payments attached to an escalating mortgage. Fast forward to last year and now married with a family and I STILL knew to buy within my means and not get talked in to more house than I could afford. For my efforts and forsight, I get nada, zilch, no break, no thank you, no "free month" from my mortgage company. Absolutely no acknowledgement that I pay on time and made a smart decision. Now it seems there would be free money coming my way. or deferred payments, or an adjustment to crazy low interest rates if I had been foolish or reckless. If you default on a credit card loan, the interest rate would escalate and fees attached etc. but since the banks don't WANT the homes back, the people that didn't think ahead will be rewarded. I want my piece of the pie !

My comments do not apply to those that may have lost their job or perhaps lost a spouse that contributed income. They are meant for those that wanted more house than they should have been shopping for and don't have sense enough to know it.

[jq26]

This is the new paradigm in Bailout Nation. Responsible people will pick up the tab for the remainder. And with the trillions in new debt, the cost of this thing will be spread among many more people, even renters. How nice....

All I can say is, take advantage of the current situation if you can. Buy a rental property at a discount or scoop up stocks of solid companies at a discount.

[morrow]

Im assuming your referring to some of the situations where homeowners have defaulted and then granted lower interest rates amongst other realms of forgiveness.

I could not agree more with you on this. In fact I sat down with dh last nite and discussed how unfair this is to those of us who work just as hard, if not harder, to maintain our responsibilities with regaurds to debt and our mortgage.

You bet your a$$ that times are tough. Ive had to make sacrifices as many others have. Gas prices and economy have affected me too and im having a hard time as well.

Maybe I should consider defaulting on my mortgage with Chase so I can grab ahold of that 2% interest rate and be better off as opposed to the 6.75% I have now. Seems like a no brainer, right? (I would never do that btw, Ive worked too hard to get where Im at).

Im done with my part of the pity party now...carry on.

[JustaTexan]

Maybe I should consider defaulting on my mortgage with Chase so I can grab ahold of that 2% interest rate and be better off as opposed to the 6.75% I have now. Seems like a no brainer, right? (I would never do that btw, Ive worked too hard to get where Im at).

What? 2%? I'm at 6.75% FHA w/ Countrywide. I want my 2% dammit!

No seriously I agree with you all. I was approved for up to alot more than I actually purchased but I wanted to be on the safe side so I went for something cheaper that actually suited my needs just fine. If I had went for something more expensive but chose a different financing option I'd be in trouble too. But I chose the responsible route. Now, where the hell is my 2% rate for being responsible?

[jq26]

Hey, I want 2.0% on my primary residence mortgage. I had to take all my wedding gift money, tax return money, and continue to make extra mortgage payments even today so that the valueof my home doesn't dip below the mortgage balance. Maybe that was stupid. I could have replaced my car (it has 227,000 miles now) with an IS350 paid for in cash and then screamed bloody murder that I need a bailout too...

25 years ago, people would have picked up a second job or not moved until the mortgage balance was paid down to the point it equaled the value of the home. Even suggesting these common sense ways to deal is considered mean-spirited now. America 2.0: If you can't make out, we'll bail you out.

[Goldbug]

This may be a dumb question, but has any individual actually been bailed out?

All the bailouts I've seen so far are to banks. Joe Mortgageholder is just the scapegoat, IMHO.

Goldbug

[JustaTexan]

This may be a dumb question, but has any individual actually been bailed out?

All the bailouts I've seen so far are to banks. Joe Mortgageholder is just the scapegoat, IMHO.

Goldbug

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20081112/bs_ibd_ibd/20081111feature

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081112/FRONTPAGE/811120305

This is all I can really find on it. Basically you get to have your interest rate reduced or change your loan term from 30 to 40 years, etc. These are all things I would like to do now with my current mortgage. But to get a lower rate or longer term I would have to be 90 days late. And I don't want to mess up my credit to save money. It kind of sucks. I would like to save money too.

[jennieb]

Did it ever occur to any of the you that the banks & the financial sector is better served when the little guys are so busy fighting among themselves that they don't see what's REALLY going on financially in this country???

I haven't heard of one financial watchdog group screaming about AIG or the fact that Chase has accepted $$ from the feds & is using up to 40% of it for year end bonuses.

It's very easy to blame the everyday man, but let's not forget the hard sells that the financial wizards threw at everyone.

[JustaTexan]

Actually some of us have been complaining. Read through the posts and you'll see.

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290235&highlight=aig

Like this bs right here?

[JustaTexan]

Just did the math and figured out what I might save if I let my mortgage go 90 days late.

Right now I'm at 6.75%/30 years with a payment of $625 (taxes and insurance included). If I were to go to 3% I would have a payment of $425. Then if I took it even further and extended my term to 40 months I would be at $375. I could really use that extra money every month. Wow!

[Goldbug]

Thanks for the links, DEANNATX. The rebel in me wants this one to be true!

http://ezinearticles.com/?Is-it-Possible-All-Mortgage-Contracts-Are-Void-and-Foreclosures-are-Invalid?&id=1069976

[JustaTexan]

Thanks for the links, DEANNATX. The rebel in me wants this one to be true!

http://ezinearticles.com/?Is-it-Possible-All-Mortgage-Contracts-Are-Void-and-Foreclosures-are-Invalid?&id=1069976

OMG!

[JustaTexan]

http://ezinearticles.com/?Loan-Modification-Vs-FHA---Hope-For-Homeowners-Program---Comparative-Analysis!&id=1460028

2. FHA will loan up to 90% of the current value of your property. This means that if you purchased your property for a higher purchase price and currently have a loan amount higher than what the value of the property is presently, you can become approved to do a loan amount at 90% of what your current house is worth.

Guys I may be be reading this wrong, (as I have a tendency to do ), but does this mean you can have your mortgage reduced? My home appraised for about 3k more that my total financed cost so this would help me a little bit.

[Denita]

Ok, I have to jump in now. I am a realtor, have been for many years. Did it ever occur to you, as one of the previous posters on this thread mentioned, that there have been no individuals bailed out with these programs? I have never seen one of these modifications work - they are advertized, quoted in articles, but no one in our area has one. No one in our area seems to qualify (there is always additional underwriting criteria). Many times the modifications come back with, for example, you are $150k underwater and the mortgage company will reduce $30k off the principal. The interest rate is temporarily reduced for 12-36 months, but the interest is deferred - tacked onto the principal.

Even when you read the articles about the modifications the lender talks about, for example, 500,000 people that 'may be eligible' throughout the country. This is nothing but PR. Frankly I would like to see the stats of the ACTUAL modifications that are being ACCOMPISHED. I know I sound negative, but I have yet to see any real effective modifications in any sort of volume.

[jq26]

Ultimately, the ONLY way to do this is to change Chap 13 BK law to allow modification of primary residence mortgages and funnel people through the BK system. That way those who NEED help will get it if they comply with an allowable Chap 13 plan. This would weed out those who just want to reduce mortgage balances. Banks can't sustain ALL the losses and neither can/should the gov't. There has to be a narrow assistance program of some kind (couldbe Chap 13) for those that 1) can afford to stay AND 2) need help AND 3) are willing to make sacrifices.

Until this happens, I don't anticipate any plan will be workable.

[JustaTexan]

Ok, I have to jump in now. I am a realtor, have been for many years. Did it ever occur to you, as one of the previous posters on this thread mentioned, that there have been no individuals bailed out with these programs?

I think OP was just annoyed at how he/she can make smarter choices and not get the benefits that the people who did not make smart choices are receiving. Atleast that is how I feel. And again, as the OP did mention, it is not directed towards people who were laid off, injured, etc. It's towards people who got these huge adjustable rate mortgages that they can't afford. And I get that people make mistakes. I do too-all the time. But for once, (and I know this NEVER happens in our society today ), can I be rewarded for being successful or ro making smart choices? It seems like life would be easier if I were irresponsible or if I sat on my butt all day and did nothing.

I would like to change my terms in my mortgage. I live on a tight budget and if something were to happen I would have to borrow money to make it. But because I am current on payments and put myself into a conservative mortgage, I don't even get that option.

Anyhow, this newer program to help out people starts next month so hopefully it will actually help some people out. But I do wish it would include people like me as well.

[jq26]

Anyhow, this newer program to help out people starts next month so hopefully it will actually help some people out. But I do wish it would include people like me as well.

I agree 100% with the first part. But then the second part is problematic. Because then if we include you and I (mortgagees who are not late) then it doesn't include renters who struggle every month but opted not to gamble and stretch and buy their first home with creative lending. Aren't they deserving of assistance? Maybe they should get a down payment for their first home. Now that they're in the lucky bunch, what about retirees who just had 30% of their nest egg wiped out in 90 days through no fault of their own? Aren't they deserving? Let's add 'em in the bunch. What about teachers, firemen, etc who just had their pensions chopped due to, in part, the stock market drop and the diminshing face value of the mortgage bonds these pension funds hold? Surely they're worthy of bailout. Okay...now the poor GM, Ford, and Chrysler workers want bailouts too because when these companies reorg their benefits will be reduced substantially. Are they less deserving than some of the McMansion owners in our pool of bailoutees? Surely they're not. What about someone stricken with cancer who can't work and must sell their home? If compassion is our guiding light, they seem more worthy of bailout than the aforementioned bunch.

So we're all (or most) deserving of relief, right? And if we're all deserving, then WHO PAYS FOR IT? Someone somewhere has to pony up for these trillions of dollars. And there ain't enough to go around- not even close. we culd borrow from Chinese and let our kids pay for it, but is it fair to borrow from our children so we can continue to live a certain lifestyle? Of course not. This is the problem here. It becomes a ponzi scheme. So it becomes a game of shifting the financial burden from the one who signed the deed and owns the home to some other party...there's no free ride. I understand some people are "innocent victims" of the housing market by poor timing, but should someone not a party to the transaction subsidize the one who is receiving the benefit of the purchase? That's crazy talk.

[borgman72000]

[JustaTexan]

I agree with everything you said JQ and I don't really expect them to bail out people who are indeed current. Just want to know if there is any incentive to make the right choices anymore. Also, I want to know what the responsible poeple are getting out of the bailout. What are those massage-loving hunters over there at AIG going to give us in return for the bailout? Do we know this part of it yet? I heard tidbits of maybe some stock or options. Anybody heard anything on this part of the whole thing? Or is their no compensation at all?

[jq26]

IJust want to know if there is any incentive to make the right choices anymore. Also, I want to know what the responsible poeple are getting out of the bailout. What are those massage-loving hunters over there at AIG going to give us in return for the bailout? Do we know this part of it yet? I heard tidbits of maybe some stock or options. Anybody heard anything on this part of the whole thing? Or is their no compensation at all?

AIG needed a bailout to preserve the system. They insure bonds everywhere. If the insurer of these bonds defaults, literally thousands of company and municipality bonds are instantly downgraded- some to junk. That would be the financial equivalent of an H-bomb on Wall Street. If you thought Dow 8000 was bad, how about Dow 4000 with cities and towns going belly up when they can't meet payroll? Honestly, of all the mini-bailouts and proposed bailouts, the AIG bailout is the only one that may be of value to the US collectively. And, Paulson smacked them pretty hard. The taxpayers own a chunk of the company and the payback terms are harsh. Having to borrow from the lender of last resort should come with a price. In the near future, AIG will be liquidating pieces of the company to make good on some of the loan money. And regarding the "massage" stuff, AIG lives and dies by the independent insurance agents who must sell (almost all don't work for AIG). The trip was an incentive for them to sell (you know, like if you sell $x million you get a week trip) which was planned and paid for way in advance. AIG was in a bind- cancel the trip and risk teeing off the ones who need to sell like Dickens to keep the company afloatOR take a PR hit and make good on the promises they made to these high performing sales agents. As a taxpayer-shareholder now , I'm glad they made good on their promises to these sales agents. They need to keep selling or we could face a total loss of God knows how many billions. Ignore the populists who seize these moments to prove their own points. Money talks here, and I'd rather they pay back Treasury.

[Chester P. Dexter]

renters who struggle every month but opted not to gamble and stretch and buy their first home with creative lending. Aren't they deserving of assistance? Maybe they should get a down payment for their first home.

That's me here. I've been treated like a pariah of sorts for years now in suburbia, as if there's something "wrong" with me if I don't buy a house. People in their 60s (parents in law and a nosy neighbor) say things like, "Buy the biggest house you can" and "Your kids would really appreciate the bigger house with the big yard." WELL YEAH, and we'd all like a bunch of things that we can't all have, not at once anyway, and when did we get this mentality of being entitled to having it all no matter what the cost, anyway? I don't feel particularly put-upon by renting a very nice place, but of course it would be ideal to have a nice, big house with the large family that we have.

As I understand it, all these efforts are being made to help people who couldn't afford a house, just like I couldn't (only difference being that I acknowledged that and acted accordingly) stay in their oversized castles and keep property values from dropping further.

End result for me when I do buy (my plan was in the next 1-2 years): Houses more expensive than they should be, and credit tighter than it has been for a long time. Sounds like a bad deal all around for me.

[jq26]

End result for me when I do buy (my plan was in the next 1-2 years): Houses more expensive than they should be, and credit tighter than it has been for a long time. Sounds like a bad deal all around for me.

BINGO. Now someone is really thinking this through. All this bailout stuff is to the detriment of those that SHOULD be reaping the benefit of their own fiscal responsibility. Propping up home prices is adverse to your interest of getting an affordable home with a reasonable payment. Not to mention the higher taxes that are around the corner to pay for all of the debt (its inevitable- sorry folks). We're running a trillion in the red. Incoming revenue is only 2.5 trillion...and we're spending a trillion more!!!

[JustaTexan]

That's me here. I've been treated like a pariah of sorts for years now in suburbia, as if there's something "wrong" with me if I don't buy a house. People in their 60s (parents in law and a nosy neighbor) say things like, "Buy the biggest house you can" and "Your kids would really appreciate the bigger house with the big yard." WELL YEAH, and we'd all like a bunch of things that we can't all have, not at once anyway, and when did we get this mentality of being entitled to having it all no matter what the cost, anyway? I don't feel particularly put-upon by renting a very nice place, but of course it would be ideal to have a nice, big house with the large family that we have.

I hear you! But I'm the pariah because I bought a smaller and older house last year, instead of a castle. The rest of my family own nice homes and they like to update this and that every few years.... They always tell me I should get something in a nicer neighborhood, (my area is not that bad), and that I need something bigger-with a dishwasher! My house suits my needs fine but they're always on me about getting something bigger so the kids can run around in more and something that has a dishwasher so I won't have to work as hard washing dishes. Seriously it's not that dang bad without a dishwasher! Good Lord! They know I have plenty of room, they know the house is in a decent neighborhood (2 miles from work and mile from school). The real concern I fear, is that my little house doesn't fit in with their ideal. Ughhhh!

And there's my rant.

[tommy32]

I hear you! But I'm the pariah because I bought a smaller and older house last year, instead of a castle. The rest of my family own nice homes and they like to update this and that every few years.... They always tell me I should get something in a nicer neighborhood, (my area is not that bad), and that I need something bigger-with a dishwasher! My house suits my needs fine but their always on me about getting something bigger so the kids can run around in more and something that has a dishwasher so I won't have to work as hard washing dishes. Seriously it's not that dang bad without a dishwasher! Good Lord! They know I have plenty of room, they know the house is in a decent neighborhood (2 miles from work and mile from school). The real concern I fear, is that my little house doesn't fit in with their ideal. Ughhhh!

And there's my rant.

Who cares what they think...as long as it suits your needs and you can live comfortable....keeping up with the Jonese's is so stupid.....Good for you D....

[amortgageman]

BINGO. Now someone is really thinking this through. All this bailout stuff is to the detriment of those that SHOULD be reaping the benefit of their own fiscal responsibility. Propping up home prices is adverse to your interest of getting an affordable home with a reasonable payment. Not to mention the higher taxes that are around the corner to pay for all of the debt (its inevitable- sorry folks). We're running a trillion in the red. Incoming revenue is only 2.5 trillion...and we're spending a trillion more!!!

O.K. I heard this quote last night: "I used to sit back and let the government take care of me, but I just realized the Government cannot take care of themselves, so I went out and got a job."