Validation Rights Notice

[Antoshkaaa]

It has been already more than 5 days after I had initial communication with a CA, yet I am still waiting upon for that letter to arrive.

Now, what should I do? Should I pick up the phone next time they call and ask them about the notice? Or just ignore the phone calls and send debt validation instead?

Any help will be appreciated since it is my first time dealing with CA's.

[admin]

I's send a DV and let them know of their current violation of the FDCPA.

[BigShotNoMore]

What does the law actually say? Does the CA need to send a letter in writing prior to or within a certain number of days of initial contact? I just got a nasty call from Phillips and Clark representing Advanta and got no letter. Any feedback would be helpful. Thanks

[debtorshusband]

Here is the law, from the Fair Debt Collection Practices act (FDCPA):

Sec. 1692g. Validation of debts

(a) Notice of debt; contents

Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in

connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall,

unless the following information is contained in the initial

communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a

written notice containing--

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days

after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or

any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the

debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector

in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any

portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain

verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the

consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed

to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within

the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer

with the name and address of the original creditor, if different

from the current creditor.

BigShot, they should send you a letter within 5 days of that phone call.

Regards,

DH

[brit5467]

Probably a very dumb question, but is the 5 days "business days"??? I'm in the same boat, waiting......

[debtorshusband]

Without statements to the contrary, I would say it's 5 calendar days. But IMHO, you can afford to be generous. Give them 5 business days. Give them 7 business days. We're not going to quibble here about getting it on day 6 instead of day 5. We're going to give them plenty of time, then let them know that despite your being overly generous in granting them time to comply, they are in violation of the law.

Or, you get the letter within your generous allotment, and you don't bother getting into a pissing contest as to whether or not they met the 5 days requirement.

DH

[Alpha314]

What does the law actually say? Does the CA need to send a letter in writing prior to or within a certain number of days of initial contact? I just got a nasty call from Phillips and Clark representing Advanta and got no letter. Any feedback would be helpful. Thanks

Is this an Advanta business account? If it is, it is my understanding, they can do just about anything they want to.

[BigShotNoMore]

Yes it is. Are business accounts operated under different rules? You say that they may be able to do "anything they want to"- in what way?

[retmar]

The FDCPA does not offer protection for business debt, only personal.

Your best resolve is to contact them by mail with an offer of settlement. By this, if you can only afford $50 a month, say so. Stress that this is the max for now, but, when possible, you will include more, or, raise the amount now offered.

Make it quite clear that to threaten to sue you will not cause payment any faster, and will only result in being only a waste of time, effort, and money. Why you do this is that IF they do file, and you go to court, your efforts to resolve honestly and amicably, shows the court that you, and only you, took the steps in the right direction. Many courts get upset when it is shown that one side refused to resolve and felt by tying up the courts was the only way to go. Remember, when a consumer makes an honest offer based on their income and outgoing that falls within the amounts allowed by Chapter 13 BK's, you have shown your offer to be an honest and true offer based on facts, not cash in your pocket. For example a 13 allows the consumer a certain amount of money for entertainment. I'm not sure of the amount now, but, was at $200 some years back.

Good Luck!

[Antoshkaaa]

Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread prior to my question.

It has been God knows how long and I still have not gotten anything from them. After the agency has called me at least 1-2 times a week, I accidentally answered up the phone (was waiting for someone to call me and did not bother to look at the ID) even thought I had no intentions to.

The phone call was not pleasant. I tried to tell him to contact me by address from now on and he told me that was not possible. Then I asked to send me proof of that I owe the debt, his reply was, "The law firm already have and even that does not matter anymore since you gotta pay either way." I should have hang the phone right there. But didn't. By the end, he offered me three choices either 1) pay in full which is around 2 grand, 2) payment arrangements of 500 every 2 week or 3) he hangs up and sends my file to a lawyer which will be contacting me soon after our call where i will have NO OPTION but pay.

I tried nicely to explain that there was no way I would be able to pay that

much since I live own my own to what he replied, "That should be the least of your concerns since you already have money paying for rent." And I will admit that was stupid of me saying but after threatening and telling me how miserable my life would be with all the examples stated from that guy I just literally broke up.

I never admitted to the bill even though I was in some sense "negotiating" on a settlement. (Again my mistake) But after being threatened with law suit I really do not know where to go with this anymore.

After 20 minutes of our phone call, as he promised, the law firm began calling me but being in huge stress with that a$$ on the phone I ignored the call.

I feel like I did more harm to myself than good even though I tried to be reasonable and fair with them. But I have no fear going to court where the only evidence will be that tape, and even that it would be clear on it where I was under my rights to demand all the future contact with my address only and sending me the proof of that bill.

It would be a great deal of pleasure if anyone can sort this out one more time for me since I am a total newb when it comes down to this nasty business. Thanks guys in advance.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread prior to my question.

It has been God knows how long and I still have not gotten anything from them. After the agency has called me at least 1-2 times a week, I accidentally answered up the phone (was waiting for someone to call me and did not bother to look at the ID) even thought I had no intentions to.

The phone call was not pleasant. I tried to tell him to contact me by address from now on and he told me that was not possible. Then I asked to send me proof of that I owe the debt, his reply was, "The law firm already have and even that does not matter anymore since you gotta pay either way." I should have hang the phone right there. But didn't. By the end, he offered me three choices either 1) pay in full which is around 2 grand, 2) payment arrangements of 500 every 2 week or 3) he hangs up and sends my file to a lawyer which will be contacting me soon after our call where i will have NO OPTION but pay.

I tried nicely to explain that there was no way I would be able to pay that

much since I live own my own to what he replied, "That should be the least of your concerns since you already have money paying for rent." And I will admit that was stupid of me saying but after threatening and telling me how miserable my life would be with all the examples stated from that guy I just literally broke up.

I never admitted to the bill even though I was in some sense "negotiating" on a settlement. (Again my mistake) But after being threatened with law suit I really do not know where to go with this anymore.

After 20 minutes of our phone call, as he promised, the law firm began calling me but being in huge stress with that a$$ on the phone I ignored the call.

I feel like I did more harm to myself than good even though I tried to be reasonable and fair with them. But I have no fear going to court where the only evidence will be that tape, and even that it would be clear on it where I was under my rights to demand all the future contact with my address only and sending me the proof of that bill.

It would be a great deal of pleasure if anyone can sort this out one more time for me since I am a total newb when it comes down to this nasty business. Thanks guys in advance.

So they still haven't sent you an initial dunning letter?

Have you moved/had a change of address since opening the account they are calling about or in other words, do you know and can you prove that they know your current/correct address?

[Antoshkaaa]

Robert_Nashville, no they have not sent me anything even though I waited and waited.

As for the address, I moved only once but that was before I opened the account. So I assume they should be aware of my current address. I am really confused as to what my next move should be. Should I wait for court summons or send something to the collecting agency?

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Well then, if you haven't started the dispute/validation process you need to do so yesterday although to be honest, if they seem willing to complete ignore federal law (by not sending an initial dunning letter to you) then whether they'll honor the law upon receipt of your DV letter is questionable at best.

However, one thing for sure is that they don't have to honor your DV letter until you send one so I suggest that is your next step.

I would also advise, given their apparent disregard of the FDCPA, that you send an original by CMRRR, and a copy by First Class with proof of mailing since they may simply refuse to accept the certified letter...you may also want to consider using UPS or FedEx so you have proof they received your letter.

In your letter, be sure to relate the date of each conversation you've had with them and that they have not sent you any correspondence of any kind so as to put them on notice that you noticed they are already violating the law.

[wahoo238]

Robert_Nashville, no they have not sent me anything even though I waited and waited.

As for the address, I moved only once but that was before I opened the account. So I assume they should be aware of my current address. I am really confused as to what my next move should be. Should I wait for court summons or send something to the collecting agency?

Are you in Canada? If so, likely the advice given, though good, would only apply to a US debtor. If you are in Canada look for your laws and regs there, that info will be much more helpfull to you.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

Are you in Canada? If so, likely the advice given, though good, would only apply to a US debtor. If you are in Canada look for your laws and regs there, that info will be much more helpfull to you.

Good catch...I hadn't even noticed that he wasn't in the U.S.

[wahoo238]

I would be curious what our neighbors up north have for a FDCPA equivalent.

[Antoshkaaa]

wahoo238, thank you for the heads up as I became aware of this just now. I realized that FDCPA rules will not work for me since I am not an U.S. citizen nor live in U.S. to begin with but I already gathered all the necessary information about the Canadian "FDCPA" and rules in the province I live in.

[Antoshkaaa]

I would be curious what our neighbors up north have for a FDCPA equivalent.

Unfortunately due to lack of posts I cannot post the link. However, if you are curious, in Goggle just type, "Harmonized List of Prohibited Collection Practices" and then press the first link that pops out.