shadokeeper

I come to you all yet again

Recommended Posts

OK our Agent is a little snake in the grass and o do nto trust her any further then I can throw her. GRRR she has messed with the wrong Guy! I know how to write letters and everything. I corrispond with her via email so i have a papertrail...

Ok now to the issue!

So we accepted the offers had the Home inspection and accepted that got approved for our loan already. She sent me an email saying we will be using a certain Title company, well if we use the title company our Broker "ownes" he will give is discounts on our closing.... So we told her we wanted to use this other title company but she informed us that the sellers has the rite to choose the title company, and they chose company A. Well we contacted our Broker and he told us that if the Seller chooses the title company they have to reimburse is three times our closing costs, it is a law... any one have any other information on this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a realtor or a broker but I've never heard anything like that. The lady I purchased my home from chose the title company but asked me if I had somebody else I would like to use. I said no but my broker later told me I should have went with somebody else because the company we used was slow.

I seriously think they are both feeding you a line of poo.

Good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been doing some web seaches on this topic and it appears that generally the buyer and seller agree on a title company. Your broker or realtor can recommend you use a certain company but can't force you to choose their recommendation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is between buyer and seller. I have never heard of any 3x penalty clause. See if its your agreeement of sale. Probably not.

So...why not compare the closing cost and take a "discount" based on the broker? Closing is pretty routine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RESPA Section 9 (12 U.S.C. § 2608). It states:

(a) No seller of property that will be purchased with the assistance of a federally related mortgage loan

shall require directly or indirectly, as a condition to selling the property, that title insurance covering the property be purchased by the buyer from any particular title company.

(B) Any seller who violates the provisions of subsection (a) of this section shall be liable to the buyer in an amount equal to three times all charges made for such title insurance. 12 U.S.C. § 2608.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that tells us much. I'm trying to line up your posts. You can choose your closing agent. I'd choose the one that will cost you the least- if the broker gives you a discount by using an affiliated closing agent, then maybe I'd go there. Closings are literally a swapping and signing of documents. If you don't feel comfortable with using the broker's agent, then pick another. You drive this decision. You're the one with the cash.

From your first post, it looks like your broker had it right. Seller must not force you into a certain title insurance (usually underwritten by the closing agent) or they face a penalty of 3x title insurance (you see why? title insurance is a requirement and a high marghin cash cow for the closing agent). So nothing changes. You decide here. Period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It depends what is custom in your area - and of course what is agreed to in the contract. For example, in our area (Palm Beach Cty, FL) the seller selects the title company BUT they must also PAY the title company. In the county directly to the south of us (Broward), the BUYER selects the title company - however, they must also PAY the title company.

In the contract is a provision by which the seller and the buyer can agree who chooses and who pays.

Look to your contract. The fees do vary widely from title company to title company so when you get your quotes, make sure they give you a quote of ALL of the settlement fees. Don't let them just tell you the title insurance part (that is a regulated amount and is the same based on purchase price). A lot of the title companies have come up with some junk fees that can double the price of a closing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can not find anything in the Contract about who chooses the title company, All i can see is that the Seller must provide a clear title. It does not stipulate any where who chooses the title company... Our realtor sat us down nad told us that we would be choosing the title company and the home inspector, when i emailed her I asked her if we needed to choose the title company, she said that she had already set that up... Well we have never dont this before and i was like o ok, well a day later we get a letter from the tilte company she "set up" well our Mortgage Guy recomended a different title company, we researched it and it was cheaper and had a better track record, so we told our agent we wanted to use this other company, she said it was the Sellers option to choose the Title company... I am just so upset! I have no clue what to do! I think she is getting a kick back from the title company she chose, and does not want us to use this other one.... I think she is a snake and as dishonest as a used car sales man what was the sence of signing an agency agreement lol... I do nto feel she has our best intrests at heart, I know she is out to make as much money from us as she can but geeze! She will nto be getting referals from us...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
so we told our agent we wanted to use this other company, she said it was the Sellers option to choose the Title company... I am just so upset! I have no clue what to do!
Kickbacks are illegal but they happen all the time- usually they are disguised in the form of a day on the company yacht or front row at the Lakers game or Sixers game (I know because many friends worked as LOs and were "treated" to excursions by "preferred" title companies.

Bottom line- you hold the money and you hold the key to this deal happening. Call your agent up and tell your agent where you are going to closing. If your agent says anything to you other than "okay", ask why they are demanding that the seller be sued for a RESPA violation.

You have to be empowered here. In this market, people should be rolling out the red carpet for you as a viable buyer. If they are not, force them to. You say, "This is how we are doing it. Period. And I will never use or recommend you to anyone if you utter one word about it."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shadowkeeper, is she your realtor or the sellers? Are you paying her or are the sellers?

Just for the record - the representation of the party is not dependent upon who pays. The seller signs a listing agreement with the Listing Office to sell the property for X%. The seller can choose the agency under which the broker will represent the seller: Single Agent, Transaction Agent or no representation. No agency is common in limited service listings. The Listing Office puts the property in the MLS and offers a "co-broke" percentage to the Selling Office.

Now the agent in the Selling Office has an agreement with his/her buyer - either as a Single Agent, Transaction Agent or no representation. The amount that the Listing Office/agent is willing to pay the Selling Office/agent may be different amounts depending upon the agency representation of the Selling Office.

So although the Seller pays X% fee to the Listing Office, the agency of the buyer's agent can be and usually is completely different than the Listing Office. In our State, Florida, we no longer have sub-agency - where all agents represent the seller - and we have not had that in many, many years (mid 1990s).

So, the question DeannaTX asks is good - is she your agent or the sellers? But the source of the $$$ has nothing to do with representation.

Class over! :mrgreen:

BTW, I agree with jq26 on the title issue - if you are paying you get to select - not the agent. It is a HUGE RESPA violation if she gets any sort of compensation for referring the closing to 'her' title company.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shadowkeeper, is she your realtor or the sellers? Are you paying her or are the sellers?

She is our Realtor we signed buyers agency with her but the Home is FSBO she worked her fee out with them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
She is our Realtor we signed buyers agency with her but the Home is FSBO she worked her fee out with them.

See that's strange to me because a few years back I was looking at a home and contacted the realtor listed on the website. I wanted to hire her as my realtor as well and she said she couldn't represent me and the seller as it would be a conflict of interest.

So I said okay and eventually changed my mind about the house-found one that was FSBO. The sellers weren't stoked that I had a realtor and we actually had to convince them that they weren't going to end up paying for her-I was. Eventually that sale fell through as well.

Why would the sellers have a fee for your realtor?

I'm probably just confused. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys i sent her a heavily worded email, let her know exactly what we wanted/expected! Told her in no uncertain terms that we would be using our title company end of story, we did let her know that we are viable buyers and that we did sign agency with her and she was supposed to be representing us in this transaction we went on to tell her that we felt she was not adequately representing us we sited specific quotes from emails, (every time I talk to her on the phone I follow up with a summation in email for that all mighty paper trail lol;) and specific events that had occurred. We also let her know that if she did not knock this crap off we would contact her Broker, the BBB, and the Realtor Board here! She sent an email back and had completely changed her tune everything was yes, yes , ok lol.

We did tell her that if the seller and her kept pushing us to use title company “A” we would file suit in court for violations to RESPA.

We are having the appraisal on Wed she has to be there to let the appraiser in because the seller would not be home… We instructed her to let the appraiser in and that is it… we also contacted the appraiser and let him know that she was instructed to let him in and that is it… He assured us that she has no way to sway his findings…

When we close and she gives us more of her business cards I am going to give them back to her and inform her that I will have no need for these because she will nto be getting a referral from us…

Again thank you guys so much

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
See that's strange to me because a few years back I was looking at a home and contacted the realtor listed on the website. I wanted to hire her as my realtor as well and she said she couldn't represent me and the seller as it would be a conflict of interest.

So I said okay and eventually changed my mind about the house-found one that was FSBO. The sellers weren't stoked that I had a realtor and we actually had to convince them that they weren't going to end up paying for her-I was. Eventually that sale fell through as well.

Why would the sellers have a fee for your realtor?

I'm probably just confused. :lol:

Well in our case we found the house on craigs list lol. We let her know asked if she wanted to represent us... she said she would contact the Sellers and see if they wanted to work with a Realtor they agreed to allow her to represent us, and they would pay her 3.5% broker and her split it. If they had refused to deal with her we would have made an offer on our own and not used a realtor we were beeing nice to her sence she had showed us 30 some houses...

To my understanding this is how it works. there is a LISTING agent the agent that lists the house, and a Buyers agent. When the listing agent lists a house there fee is 7% of sale price if he/she lists the house and sells the house they get to split all of that with there broker. If there is a buyers agent then they split the 7% between one another my understanding is that if you are a new realtor you get less of that split then if you are a seasoned agent.. Does that make any sence?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is almost right. The commission is:

1) Listing Office - Broker and Listing Agent typically split the commission

2) Selling Office - Broker and Selling Agent split the commission

So if there are two offices, listing office and selling office then the commission is split four ways. Yes a more seasoned agent gets a larger split from their broker - but this varies widely from agent to agent and office to office.

If the total commission is 6% for example - the Listing Office usually gets 50% of the commission and the selling office gets the other 50% and then each broker splits it with the agent on a pre arranged split based on a signed I/C agreement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good for you Shadokeeper for standing your ground.

I've been down a similar road, and boy it is irritating.

Have no faith in Realtors anymore. Some of them will do anything to sway things in the direction they choose, not the one you want. I've had dealings with the listing agent from he@@ also with the one who works with the buyer. Both were horrid people. I'm sure they both hated me when it was all over, but it was our money being spent, not theirs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for trying to help me understand it guys! I'm still confused at how complicated it can be, but I feel like I learned a little bit!

Shado-you did good! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shadow, you are 100% right. Its your dough and you are signing for the loan. So things should be done your way. In the future, you can dictate these terms explicitly in the agreement of sale. That way you don't have to deal with these things. You can just say READ THE CONTRACT.

Regarding dual agency, its a little hairy. There is clearly a baked-in conflict of interest. For that reason, some states prevent it (NJ?), while others allow it but require waivers (similar to a husband & wife using the same divorce attorney). Its a sticky situation even in the best of circumstances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The agent should have CLEARLY had a NO REPRESENTATION agreement signed by the Seller as she was already representing the buyer under Buyer Agency. We don't have dual agency in Fl - only Transaction or Single or none. Each State is different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.