Pre-recorded collections calls to third parties?

[ALVA]

Are collections agencies allowed to use autodialers and send pre-recorded messages? I got a call and it was a pre-recorded message saying I needed to return their call within 48 hours for "resolution".

I called the company back through my phone system which protects my private numbers (they can't get my ANI) and it was Global Credit & Collection, their toll free number is out of Canada I found when I checked at tollfreenumbers.com.

They were looking for my brother and his ex-wife, though I simply told him there was nobody by those names at that number, which is the truth.

My brother has never lived here and we haven't shared a last name for 18 years since I got married, so no idea how they got to me. They must be searching deep though, as I also got a collection call for my ex-sister-in-laws SISTER. No my brothers ex-wife, but her sister who I had met twice in my whole life.

I thought they had to call in person, but perhaps I don't know the exact terms of the FDCPA

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

In general, a third-party collector is allowed to call third-parties (even completely unrelated third-parties) one time for the purpose of locating a debtor. However, they are not allowed to discuss the actual debt or reveal any private information. As far as I know, there is no stipulation against a autodialed call or a call containing a recorded message nor would this likely count as their "one time" allowed call because in most cases, such a call wouldn't be considered "contact" until they have actually talked with someone.

Actually, however, the call you describe sounds to me as if they expect the debtor to be at this number (in other words, not a "location" call)...I'm thinking your brother gave your number as a contact number for him.

As to the other calls, it's almost impossible to know how they associated your number with the people they are looking for...they could have given them your number themselves on an original application or they may have just done some skip-tracing.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it much unless they keep calling; at that point you may have to take some action.

[ALVA]

I am pretty sure they are doing skip tracing. I don't use my home number for anything but my at home business, which uses a transfer from the virtual number system I use, so I never give the actual number to anyone. It may be listed in the phonebook though as I didn't bother to make it unpublished.

I don't know why I thought use of autodialers was prohibited, thanks for clarifying.

[cracrap]

the use of the autodialer to your homephone was not illegal, however the leaving of the prerecorded message WAS ILLEGAL. its the tcpa though, not the fdcpa that you should be looking at...

[ALVA]

I assumed the TCPA wouldn't apply as they weren't selling anything. I'll take a closer look, thanks for the tip.

The message was kind of scary and ominous...you know how collectors are. I kinda wanna mess with them just because.

ETA: Interesting

The United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania has held that a caller could be held liable under the federal TCPA for erroneously making prerecorded or mechanical collection calls to a person who owed no debt. Watson v. NCO Group, Inc. , No. CIVA 2:06CV1502, 2006 WL 3059933 (E.D. Pa. Nov. 28, 2006).

The defendants filed a motion to dismiss, arguing that the debt collection calls under consideration were exempt from the TCPA. The district court, however, disagreed. According to the district court, the calls did not fall under the TCPA’s established business relationship exemption because an erroneously called non-debtor does not have such an established business relationship with a caller. The court also found that the calls did not fall under the TCPA’s exemption for commercial calls that do not adversely affect privacy rights and do not transmit an unsolicited advertisement because, according to the court, a non-debtor’s rights are in fact violated when the person is subject to repeated annoying and abusive debt collection calls that the person is powerless to stop.For these reasons, the district court denied the defendants’ motion to dismiss the plaintiff’s TCPA claim.

If they took my number off their list no problem, if I get more though I'll consider taking it further

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

I believe for the TCPA to apply, the collector would have to know that they were calling someone other than the debtor - to the best of my knowledge, a collector would not be in violation of the TCPA simply because they used an automated device to place the call and/or left a prerecorded message if they were calling what they believed was a debtor's home telephone number (the underlying assumption here is that this number was actually given to them by the debtor or if the mistake was unintentional/unavoidable).

If they called your number and knew in advance it was your number (and not the debtor's number) then I think they have a real problem (assuming you pursued it of course).

EDIT:

I don't think a Federal District Court (that doesn't cover Alabama) case will help you much here but it looks as if the "key" is continued calls. However, I would say that continued collection calls to a number they know is not the debtor's number is a violation of both the TCPA and the FDCPA.

[ALVA]

it looks as if the "key" is continued calls. However, I would say that continued collection calls to a number they know is not the debtor's number is a violation of both the TCPA and the FDCPA.

Yep. And knowing how bad their record keeping is, I wouldn't be surprised if I continued getting calls even though I have informed them it's the wrong number. May not, but sure wouldn't be shocking.

[cracrap]

what makes you think that they have to be selling something to be regulated by the tcpa?

[cracrap]

I assumed the TCPA wouldn't apply as they weren't selling anything. I'll take a closer look, thanks for the tip.

The message was kind of scary and ominous...you know how collectors are. I kinda wanna mess with them just because.

ETA: Interesting

If they took my number off their list no problem, if I get more though I'll consider taking it further

this case was decided in 2006 before the fcc declaratory ruling of 2008 which was in response to aca internationals petition to have debt collection calls exempted from the tcpa....debt collection calls are regulated by the tcpa , if the telephone subscriber did not provide the number, in a debtor -creditor relationship, then the calls are illegal regardless of content

[ALVA]

what makes you think that they have to be selling something to be regulated by the tcpa?

I just assumed based on not having looked at or thought about the TCPA in years...I hadn't had reason to.

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

The FDCPA, as I understand it, does not require a collector to have intent to violate for a transgression to be a transgression. If they violate, they violate and it's actionable; doesn't matter what they intended or even if it was truly just a simple mistake.

The TCPA, I believe, does requite that the be "intent"...in other words, a simple "mistake" (such as calling a cell phone they don't know is a cell phone or calling a number that was provided to them by a consumer) would not be a violation of the act...to be actionable, the consumer would have to show that the violator (CA or whoever) did so knowing they were violating/with the intent of violating.

If I'm wrong about, please feel free to let me know.

[KentWA]

One call is not actionable under the TCPA, 2 calls in a 12 month period is.

[cracrap]

One call is not actionable under the TCPA, 2 calls in a 12 month period is.

for an unsolicited phone call with a live person ,2 calls is the minimum-that is a different part of the act with different requirements to establish liability, however when theres a violation on the use of automatic dialing systems, one call establishes liability

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

....

You seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the intricacies of the TCPA...how many successful actions have your brought?

[cracrap]

many

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

many

Care to cite (or provide links) to a few?

[cracrap]

and how would you benefit from that?

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

and how would you benefit from that?

The same way anyone benefits from reading successful (or unsuccessful for that matter) actions.

I'd say very few folks know much about the TCPA (those dealing with debt collectors or not) and I think we all would benefit seeing how someone has successfully pursued violations under the act; especially if they involved third-party collectors.

Now, if they were small claims actions or actions in state/local courts they they aren't going to be very helpful as case law for most people but they could be quite helpful if they were brought in Federal court.

If you don't feel you can or should provide the info; that's fine.

EDIT:

As I think about this; maybe what we really need is to start a "sticky" thread that discusses the TCPA and how/when it can apply to "collector" calls and if there is case law that can be posted/cited (whether it be cases you've be party to or not) then it can be posted for people to refer to.

Just a thought.

[cracrap]

your existing case law on tcpa actions are typically found at the state court level as tcpa actions are the exclusive jurisdiction of state courts, the only time that they are removed to federal is if there are grounds for removal..typically because there is a federal claim alleged with the case,diversity of jurisdiction along with damages exceeding 75k..

naturally to cite my cases would force me to give up my id

so what is it that you would like to see robert, that the plain reading of the statute along with the follow up declaratory ruling does not already provide you with?

[Robert Nashville/Savannah]

your existing case law on tcpa actions are typically found at the state court level as tcpa actions are the exclusive jurisdiction of state courts, the only time that they are removed to federal is if there are grounds for removal..typically because there is a federal claim alleged with the case,diversity of jurisdiction along with damages exceeding 75k..

naturally to cite my cases would force me to give up my id

so what is it that you would like to see robert, that the plain reading of the statute along with the follow up declaratory ruling does not already provide you with?

I think I pretty well explained what I "want" above.

I'm surprised that what I though was a Federal law is pretty much limited to state/local court actions.

In any case, thanks for your helpl.

[cracrap]

EDIT:

As I think about this; maybe what we really need is to start a "sticky" thread that discusses the TCPA and how/when it can apply to "collector" calls and if there is case law that can be posted/cited (whether it be cases you've be party to or not) then it can be posted for people to refer to.

Just a thought.