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Chinese develop anti-aircraft carrier "kill weapon"


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From the USNI:

Report: Chinese Develop Special "Kill Weapon" to Destroy U.S. Aircraft Carriers

Advanced missile poses substantial new threat for U.S. Navy

With tensions already rising due to the Chinese navy becoming more aggressive in asserting its territorial claims in the South China Sea, the U.S. Navy seems to have yet another reason to be deeply concerned.

After years of conjecture, details have begun to emerge of a "kill weapon" developed by the Chinese to target and destroy U.S. aircraft carriers.

First posted on a Chinese blog viewed as credible by military analysts and then translated by the naval affairs blog Information Dissemination, a recent report provides a description of an anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) that can strike carriers and other U.S. vessels at a range of 2000km.

The range of the modified Dong Feng 21 missile is significant in that it covers the areas that are likely hot zones for future confrontations between U.S. and Chinese surface forces.

The size of the missile enables it to carry a warhead big enough to inflict significant damage on a large vessel, providing the Chinese the capability of destroying a U.S. supercarrier in one strike.

Because the missile employs a complex guidance system, low radar signature and a maneuverability that makes its flight path unpredictable, the odds that it can evade tracking systems to reach its target are increased. It is estimated that the missile can travel at mach 10 and reach its maximum range of 2000km in less than 12 minutes.

Supporting the missile is a network of satellites, radar and unmanned aerial vehicles that can locate U.S. ships and then guide the weapon, enabling it to hit moving targets.

The ASBM is said to be a modified DF-21

While the ASBM has been a topic of discussion within national defense circles for quite some time, the fact that information is now coming from Chinese sources indicates that the weapon system is operational. The Chinese rarely mention weapons projects unless they are well beyond the test stages.

If operational as is believed, the system marks the first time a ballistic missile has been successfully developed to attack vessels at sea. Ships currently have no defense against a ballistic missile attack.

Along with the Chinese naval build-up, U.S. Navy officials appear to view the development of the anti-ship ballistic missile as a tangible threat.

After spending the last decade placing an emphasis on building a fleet that could operate in shallow waters near coastlines, the U.S. Navy seems to have quickly changed its strategy over the past several months to focus on improving the capabilities of its deep sea fleet and developing anti-ballistic defenses.

As analyst Raymond Pritchett notes in a post on the U.S. Naval Institute blog:

"The Navy's reaction is telling, because it essentially equals a radical change in direction based on information that has created a panic inside the bubble. For a major military service to panic due to a new weapon system, clearly a mission kill weapon system, either suggests the threat is legitimate or the leadership of the Navy is legitimately unqualified. There really aren't many gray spaces in evaluating the reaction by the Navy…the data tends to support the legitimacy of the threat."

In recent years, China has been expanding its navy to presumably better exert itself in disputed maritime regions. A recent show of strength in early March led to a confrontation with an unarmed U.S. ship in international waters.

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Most military analysts seem to agree that China will have the world's most powerful navy by 2020, maybe 2025.

This entire topic in general has somewhat flown under the radar of the average Joe American, and I don't quite understand why, but then again, I'm not a political genius... maybe there's a good reason this doesn't cause any uproar.

My feelings here:

Communist China, with its at times unfettered Capitalism and its potentially magnificent economy, which even at this stage is still mostly latent, is most certainly not an American ally, nor is China a strong ally of NATO; I would argue to some extent it is an anti-Western nation state.

We, as a country, including all of the major news outlets, made a really big deal about the rumors of WMD in Iraq, because of what a madman like Saddam could do in that region with that kind of power, and oh, the human sacrifice of the poor Iraqis! We never once thought Saddam had weapons that could reach America! (Last I heard, China doesn't have the greatest human rights record, either!!)

Now, when a real and tangible military threat arises, nobody seems to blink an eye.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?! Not only has a real WMD been verified, but even worse, this Chinese missile is specifically designed to harm and disable the greatest American war ships ever built... this is not an American ally; this is not a benign act and China is not a friendly country.

Back in 1924, around the time most people were still trying to forget World War I, known in pre-WWII times as the "Great War", Brigadier General Billy Mitchell had just returned from a military visit to the Orient. He was married upon his return and he actually postponed his honeymoon so he could write a 323 page intelligence report, which outlined in great detail how Naval bases at Oahu were vulnerable to an aerial attack from Japan... how land-based ocean defenses were inadequate in a new era that would soon be known for aerial superpowers... Mitchell took top US Generals to the islands in the Pacific and sketched how the pending attack could be prevented. Keep in mind, this was nearly 20 years before Pearl Harbo actually happenedr.

Unfortunately, Mitchell was dismissed as a kook, and his recommendations went unheeded; later, he was dishonorably discharged for subordination, largely due to to his staunch belief that the US Navy should be developing airpower, specifically Naval airpower rather than building new battleships. He was disgraced at the time of his death and only recognized and honored as the "Prophet" postmortem.

Again, I'm no political genius, but does a Russia-N Korea-Iran-China combined allegiance not seem at least remotely possible?

Maybe, I feel like the Billy Mitchell's of today are also being silenced and/or ignored. Maybe, I'm just on drugs... I don't know. I had minor surgery this morning and I'm still taking narcotics.

Does this bother anybody else in the free world?

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American companies make too much profit allowing Chinese to manufacture all of their goods (lead and melamine tainted or not) to let a little thing like human rights violations, Communism, and anti-Western sentiment get in the way.

"But we have factories there! They wouldn't use those weapons on us!"

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Why does it realy matter who has the best tactical weapons?

Any war between the so called "SuperPowers" will not be conventional war. This country has hundreds of Nukes, and has used them. What else do you realy need.

Besides, China needs us now more than we need them...we owe them to much moola. We made China the country they are today by buying their miserable cheap goods Via wallyworld.

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I would argue to some extent it is an anti-Western nation state.

No argument here. China is anti-western. Conflicts have been heating up for years over civil rights. There have been anti-western consumer boycotts in China for years (since the early 19th century), they don't trust us, and after the Tibet issue in 08, and CNN's Cafferty's comments (for which they have apologized and clarified), the Chinese Nationals went on an anti-western tirade with protests everywhere including major cities around the world. The Chinese government finally clamped down because of the Beijing Olympics.

Even Russia is once again spewing anti-westernism as an idealogy to the people. Too much respect for the west in some circles is considered un-patriotic. The so called Russian liberals and their followers from the 90's - Garry Kasparov,Mikhail Gorbachev, Boris Yeltsin have faded away.

Both countries (as well many middle eastern ones) think the west interferes too much with domestic issues and that promoting democracy is just a way of pushing their interests on them. Cultivating anti-western idealogies in nationals by the governments is just another way of controlling the people and protecting or preserving the ruling class. Blame the west for all the problems, especially in Russia. How else are they going to explain so much power in a few peoples hands (Putin, Medvedev and clones), the redistribution of wealth, and a bigger role in controlling the economy. Most anti-western countries have completely different values, beliefs and principles than Westerners

Both countries, though, want to partner with the West financially and get a better foothold in the struggle to be a global super power (militarily and energy - Europe is going to become more dependant on Russia for energy).

Funny, the Chinese have less in common with the West than Russia, yet for the almighty dollar, they are more willing to atleast give the appearance that we all get along so they can continue to "use" us for their own benefit, i.e., wealth, modernization, technology. By the same token, Russia is trying to change its direction by distancing itself from us.

It is what it is - I think many Americans don't want to think about it. Let's face it China can March it's army to Europe. They have a standing army of over 6 million. A soldier can go fight for a few months, get sent home and it would be over a year before his turn would come around. Ignoring it isn't going to make the situation less real. We should all be using diligence in keeping ourselves informed on foreign affairs. Then we can't say "Oh, I never knew"

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If both countries stay on their current trajectory, the US and China will soon meet in the middle. China is becoming capitalist at a breakneck pace while the US has done everything to clamp down on what makes (made) this country great. The lines are becoming really blurred. This China v. US picture that is being painted isn't quite accurate. They develop weapons to defend themselves and so do we. I don't really see anything wrong or shocking with that.

China will be a democracy one day. It takes time and a mindset change. And as their middle class grows, the slow process takes hold.

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They are on a fast track to economic power and dominance, not necessarily democracy.

At least the stimulus funds are going towards real federal government responsibilities such as roads and rural fire departments instead of areas that would fall under state responsibilities such as national defense related manufacturing jobs.

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China has 1 carrier they use for training purposes. their military is ranked numb 3 in the world. Russia still ranked numb 2.

Russia and china have such a buddy/buddy relationship their generals have connecting phone lines. China and Russia also have a combines fleet of subs that matches our own.

USA has 11 carriers and one under construction: The George W Bush. Set to be launched in a few years. It takes the USA about 7 years and 5 billion dollars to make one carrier.

So, if china sinks a bunch of our carriers we could end up with no upper hand in a battle.

What concerns me the most though is an EMP Attack. Russia lost track of a number of nuclear weapons when they collapsed.

If by some chance a nuclear device was detonated hundreds of miles above the earth it could cripple us and cause massive fatalities. I've seen a number of articles lately about such an event. Basically, the chances of taking out the entire usa grid is slim but it could take out half easily. Which case our computers, telephones, TV and banking system would be completely useless. Cars would stall and airplanes would be forced to land with no navigation. Then, radiation fall out on top of that.

The USA is building FEMA detention centers. I'm still looking into it but the numbers could be as high as 800 facilities. I've also seen photos of stacks of plastic coffins behind some of these facilities. The government is also questioning cemeteries about mass grave capabilities in the event of a epidemic or "emergency."

It's pretty scary over all.

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At least the stimulus funds are going towards real federal government responsibilities such as roads and rural fire departments instead of areas that would fall under state responsibilities such as national defense related manufacturing jobs.

The only people stimulated by the bill were all the banking executives who were allowed by law to keep the bonuses.

And these people:

Wells Fargo & Co. San Francisco Calif. $25,000,000,000

JPMorgan Chase & Co. New York N.Y. $25,000,000,000

Citigroup Inc. New York N.Y. $25,000,000,000

Bank of America Corp.1 Charlotte N.C. $15,000,000,000

Morgan Stanley New York N.Y. $10,000,000,000

Goldman Sachs Group Inc. New York N.Y. $10,000,000,000

Bank of New York Mellon Corp. New York N.Y. $3,000,000,000

State Street Corp. Boston Mass. $2,000,000,000

U.S. Bancorp Minneapolis Minn. $6,599,000,000

Capital One Financial Corp. McLean Va. $3,555,199,000

Regions Financial Corp. Birmingham Ala. $3,500,000,000

SunTrust Banks Inc. Atlanta Ga. $3,500,000,000

BB&T Corp. Winston-Salem N.C. $3,133,640,000

KeyCorp Cleveland Ohio $2,500,000,000

Comerica Inc. Dallas Texas $2,250,000,000

Marshall & Ilsley Corp. Milwaukee Wis. $1,715,000,000

Northern Trust Corp. Chicago Ill. $1,576,000,000

Zions Bancorporation Salt Lake City Utah $1,400,000,000

Huntington Bancshares Columbus Ohio $1,398,071,000

Can someone please list the rural fire departments who benefited- and the amounts.

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Yeah, I'm more inclined to go to the source. However, in this case, the bill displayed is real.


It also has just one sponsor, doesn't appear to be going anywhere, and it's pretty innocuous. That said, I can see neither dead people nor black helicopters.

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There is a basis for the concern over FEMA camps. Google "rex 84"

Wiki's take on it:


According to scholar Diana Reynolds:

The Rex-84 Alpha Explan (Readiness Exercise 1984, Exercise Plan; otherwise known as a continuity of government plan), indicates that FEMA in association with 34 other federal civil departments and agencies, along with other Nato nations, conducted a civil readiness exercise during April 5-13, 1984. It was conducted in coordination and simultaneously with a Joint Chiefs exercise, Night Train 84, a worldwide military command post exercise (including Continental U.S. Forces or CONUS) based on multi-emergency scenarios operating both abroad and at home. In the combined exercise, Rex-84 Bravo, FEMA and DOD led the other federal agencies and departments, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Secret Service, the Treasury, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Veterans Administration through a gaming exercise to test military assistance in civil defense.

The exercise anticipated civil disturbances, major demonstrations and strikes that would affect continuity of government and/or resource mobilization. To fight subversive activities, there was authorization for the military to implement government ordered movements of civilian populations at state and regional levels, the arrest of certain unidentified segments of the population, and the imposition of martial law. [1]

Existence of a master military contingency plan, "Garden Plot" and a similar earlier exercise, "Lantern Spike" were originally revealed by journalist Ron Ridenhour, who summarized his findings in "Garden Plot and the New Action Army."[2]

Rex 84 was mentioned during the Iran-Contra Hearings in 1987, and subsequently reported on by the Miami Herald on July 5, 1987. [3] Nonetheless, the basic facts about Rex 84 and other contingency planning readiness exercises--and the potential threat they pose to civil liberties if fully implemented in a real operation--are taken seriously by scholars and civil libertarians.[4]

Exercises similar to Rex 84 happen regularly.[5] Plans for roundups of large numbers of persons in the United States in times of crisis are constructed during periods of increased political repression such as the Palmer Raids and the McCarthy Era.

For example, from 1967 to 1971 the FBI kept a list of over 100,000 persons to be rounded up as subversive, dubbed the "ADEX" list.[6] This list contained many labor leaders, scholars, and public figures of the time.

In 2008, for the first time an active military unit has been given a dedicated assignment stateside for civil unrest containment. It is assigned to Northcom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities.[7]

A number of websites and alternative publications that span the political spectrum have hypothesized upon the basic material about Rex 84, and in many cases hyperbolized it into a form of urban legend or conspiracy theory. Rex 84 is sometimes cited as an extension of the fictional King Alfred Plan, a strategy to detain African Americans.

[edit]See Also


HR 1955


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Is the existance of an air base in doubt?

If we're talking 50's I think its the Koreans and no it seems things haven't been settled yet.

I also heard we are paying to help Detroit think up good ideas for their abandonded ex Tiger stadium, another good use of federal money instead of Detroit money.

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