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Wolves in sheep clothing!


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xangelx OK quick rundown; Found BofA acct. I never had on all my crs over a year ago, been disputing with the cra about the same lenth of time all verified as mine.

While disputing another debt also I was sent a signed credit app (that was mine) which had a balance transfer. This transfered account had been open on 5/10/1994. BofA reports I open an acct with them with a different acct # on the very same day. I stumbled upon some old crs from as far back as 1995 which revealed that Barnett Bank started this mess in 96 or 97, then NationsBank had the acct in 98, and finally BofA had it in 99 and closed the acct. only to create a new acct. # with the same open date.:confused:

Fast foward a few months ago, while getting nowhere with both. I complaint to the FTC, my local newspaper (got a response too), filed a police report, and the AG.

AG put me through to The Comptroller of the Currency and they contacted me letting me know that BofA was contacted and would be in touch with me.

They did and I would like to share what they sent me as they're response, and would like anyone to share any violations and commentary on my legal options. Please review my next post for the letter.

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xangelx

Saint al

USA

Bank of America Visa@ account ending: XXX2 (previously XXX? and XXX1)

Dear Mr. Saint al:

Your correspondence has been fowarded to Bank of America by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. I appreciate the opportunity to respond on behalf of Bank of America.

The above-referenced account was open 5/10/95 as account number ending in XXX1. Bank of America obtained the account through a conversion on December 12, 2006 (my cr shows 1999) and account number ending in XXX? was assigned. (and never reported) I regret that we do not have access to the original application, as record retention quidelines for those items are only 25 months. I have enclosed copies of the account billing statements ( I guess not part of the retention policy) from January 2002 until the account charged off as a loss to the bank in May 2005,:confused: which show that you had full knowledge of the validity of the balance. The statements were sent to the valid address that we had for you and they reflect payments being being received. I have also randomly selected two payments from the 2002 and 2003 statements which reflect that the payments were being made by you from your checking account at the Saint al's bank. I have also included the check copies for your records. (retention policy only signed appl)

Please be advised that financial institutions must comply with the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), which means we cannot remove valid delinquency or charge off accounts from your credit. Be advised that it is the position of Bank of America that the account is valid, and we shall not remove it from reporting from your credit file. The account was sold to Bad Collection Agency on July 23, 2007. Any questions or concerns you have about this account need to be addressed to Bad Collection Agency going forward. They may be reached at 1.800.XXX.XXXX. Please be advised that when an account charge off as a loss to the bank, a new account number is generated for the purpose of reporting;:confused:therefore, the account ending in XXX? now reflects on your credit report as account number ending in XXX2.

Mr. Saint al, I want to thank you for allowing me to address your concerns. If you have any additional questions or concerns regarding this matter, please contact Bad Collection Agency at the number referenced above.

Sincerely,

Slum Dog Millionaire

Customer Charmer

Office of the Big Bucks

1.800.Don't Ask

Give me your thoughts with this

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Typical BOA response. As a matter of fact you got more info out of them than I have so far, but in my case the account was already charged off when they acquired it, so that may make all the difference and explain why there are no records for mine and why the only records for yours were generated after they acquired your account, despite their record retention explanation BS.

I am planning on taking a different approach when dealing with them. I disputed the account and they verified but in their boundless arrogant attitude they never reported it in dispute. So I am going to claim separate injuries for each third party who received a copy of my CR without the dispute notation.

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[i am planning on taking a different approach when dealing with them. I disputed the account and they verified but in their boundless arrogant attitude they never reported it in dispute. So I am going to claim separate injuries for each third party who received a copy of my CR without the dispute notation.

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  • 1 month later...
xangelx Received letter from the OCC, not good they went alone with everything BofA stated, with only what they said, even with all the proof that I sent them showing that this fraudulant account was passed on through 3 different banks ending with BofA who decided to give it new account number when charged off as they for reporting reason (which I don't beleive the TILA allow except upon 1) Renewal. 2) Substitution each of which is given approval by the consumer's agreement, never in default or at charge off, and yet the OCC seem to see no wrong in it. Any thoughts?
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  • 3 weeks later...

Re: Case#XXXXX

FIA CARD SERVICES, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION

Dear Saint Al:

(1)The Office of the Comptroller (OCC) is responding to your letter, which was foworded to this agency by the State of Florida's Office of the Attorney General, on your behalf, regarding the above-mentioned bank. The focus of the OCC's review of consumer complaints against national banks is to dertermine wether the banks' actions are consistent with banking statues, regulations or any policies that are applicable to nationally chartered banking institutions.

(2)In your correspondence, you explained that the bank has reported a charge-off credit card account that does not belong to you.

(3)The OCC contacted the bank, which responded directly to you in a letter dated XX2009. A copy of this letter is enclosed. The bank informed you that the account was open on so & so date but due to the lapsed time, the bank no longer has a copy of the original application.(How do they know when it was open?):confused:The provided you with statements from 2002 until 2005 when the account was charged off. The bank also provided you with copies of two payments you made on the account in the past. The bank advised you that, going foward, you will need to contact Bad CA 800-XXX-XXXX to discuss questions or concerns you may have about the account.(one get the feeling this is not going to turn out good)

(4)The OCC received an updated follow-up communique from you on doa 2009. In that communique, you continued to dispute the validity of the credit card debt stating that without a written agreement, there is no debt owed.(I never said that)

(5)Regulation Z (12 C.F.R 226), The Truth in Lending Act, establishes your rights and obligations in the event of a billing error on your credit card account.(:confused:its not mine HELLO!) In order to protect your rights under Section 226.13 you must dispute any incorrect entries on your statement within 60 days of the date he bank sent the first statement where they appear, or, in the case of missing credit, where they should appear. If you are disputing a statement that you did not receive, then your dispute is for the full balance owing on the statement. Your dispute must be in writing and must be sent to the address following the caption, Sending Billing Inquiries To: found on your monthly statement.:troll:(they're completely ignoring my complaint)

(6)The bank must acknowledge your dispute within 30 days. The bank must correct errors or explain to you in writing...Blah! Blah!

(7) Mr. Saint Al, the bank contends that you had full knowledge of the validity of the account balance and that you did not dispute in any way the billing statements it provided to you.(how do you dispute something you never received) Additionally, the bank has no record that the billing statements were returned by the post office as undeliverable.:confused:(does the post office confirm they were delivered)

(8)Under most credit card agreements, the bank reserves the right to assign or sell its rights to a third party. Your credit agreement will also outline your rights, responsibilities, and liabilities when you accept and utilized the credit card account. Your dispute involves provisions of your contract with the bank.:shock:(#3 because of lapse of time all is gone) We cannot intercede in a private party situation regarding the interpretation or enforcement of your contract. The OCC does not have the judicial power to interpret or enforce private contractual agreement.xjawdropx(I don't know where this come from)

(9)FDCPA recognizes the right of creditors to attempt to collect delinquent debts by legitimate means....Blah! Blah!(I'm getting thrown under the bus here)

(10)This office does not have the authority to adjudicate civil disputes that arise from debt collection practices.(I'm dead) If you are not satified with the bank's actions and you want to pursue this mater, we can only suggest that you consult an attorney about any legal recourse that may be available to you.(Gee thank who knows may be able to sue the OCC)

(11)Based on our review of your complaint and supporting documentation and the bank's response; it appears the issues have been appropriately address. (translation: If the bank say its true I'm good with that, see you pal)

(12)The Customer Asistance Group's consumer complaint process is a service that is provided to customers of national banks.(wether you want to be or not) Infomation provided within this letter is specifically related to an individual consumer complaint and should not be construed as either a legal opinion of the OCC (thank God) or a supervisory action. If you are not satified with resolution of your complaint,(why do I get the feeling someone is laughing in the break area) you may wish to consult legal counsel so as to preserve your rights. (I wish to)

(13)We trust this is resonsive to your complaint.(I still hear laughing) If we can assist you in the future regarding questions or concerns involving a national bank, (uncontrolable laughter, oops spilled coffee) please do not hesitate to contact our office or website at www.helpwithmybank.gov. This website helps you find answers to your National Banking questions. (fell over backwards in their chair, have to change pants laugh too hard)

Sincerely,

Customer Assistance(Shaft) Group

I will place my response in another post, needless to say I'm very disapointed in the OCC, I know others have had a more favorable outcome. Any input is welcome.

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Dear Sir/Madame:

I received your letter dated whatever with its 13 paragraphs and I wish to address them individually without repeating them knowing you have it in your possession. I've also enclosed the letter with numbered paragraph from Bank of America with a B in front to aviod confusion.

[1] Your focus as you've stated to provide protection to consumers as to make sure that banks are in compliance with banking statues, regulation or any policy. Although your letter did mention Regulation Z (12 C.F.R 226) TILA & FDCPA all showing bias to the bank while it seems you're ignoring the part of the regulation that would apply to the bank. This I find disturbing because it gives the impression that the wolf is in charge to oversee the wolves that are doing business with sheep, as I respond to the rest of your letter you may understand my lack of faith in your decision.

[2] I've sent you credit reports showing HCS/Visa date open 1994 from a credit report date 1995 which does not show any other account that is open as it has been referred to in Bankof America (BofA) letter (B2) account ending in XXXXA. Now my understading is that national credit agencies are governed by FTC Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) for providing accurate and complete information. It would seem based on your response that this is of no relevance.

[3] It appears to me in this paragraph that one of your responsibuilities is to parrot what the bank says, if the wolf eats the lamb and say it has not seen it, that seem to be a good enough of an explantion for the missing lamb. Here's why as the OCC you seem to act like a wolf covering for the wolf by what you omit and by what you do not scrutinize:

a.(B2)-
Conversion on October 21,20
06

It doesn't mention with whom this conversion (merger) is with, theassuption is with MBNA (see attached) (also never had a MBNA account either) It doesn't mention if the account was in default at that time, but since the account number was change and there are no statements provided prior to conversion, for the transition of the account balance from the old to the new, does not TILA governs disclosure of new account to be given notice to the consumer if there's any change (any regulation covering that please provide). Pease help me understand the policy or statue for a bank t be able to charge off the account in 2005 and in 2006 be able to obtai it through a conversion. How is it that it can provide billing statements and payments from 2002 to 2005 when it had no contractual or title transferring rights until 2006. How is it there is a billing statement for 12/2005 with a payment due date of 01/2006 almost 6 months after charge off. OCC Bulletin 2000-20 have as banking policy that a charge is 180 days after last payment made starts the process and yet. Experian credit report dated 2/05/2009 has BofA reporting its charge off as of March 2007 which make more since being that its after the conversion, but wait the cr dated 3/17/09 shows charge off date as 5/2006 and o the 29th this report shows a charge off date of 4/2006. It si BofA responsibility to furnish this information which also shows it requested info on my report 3/2009, three days prior to the letter sent to me showing a 6/2005 charge off.

b. (B2)-
25 Month rentention policy guidelines.
If BofA obtain this account in 2006 and it is their policy guideline to not keep record past 25 months how is it they have copies of billing statements and 2 payments randomly selected and not have a signed application or instrument authenticating this account, and how is it that thw opening of this account a certainty of 1994 if there is no record of its conception, what is the bank relying on to make claim to this info. Since it is BofA policy then there should be a record up to Nov. 2008 starting at the time itmtook ownership of this account, If this was the previous owner's policy (which the letter doesn't states how does the next owner know the facts certain when this account was open. In this the OCC has chosen to accspt as fact what BofA letter state as absolute truth.

[4]I have gone over the letter I sent to you that is referred in this paragraph, I do not find where or what you are referring to. I gave you existing FCRA statues regarding reporting accurate info. as well as Fla. law on contract and written agreements, which being the OCC you should know yet you choose not to see.

I wil finish this in another post. Please forgive if its too long.
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Isn't this the zombie debt issue? It started in 1994 fer Chrissakes.

It is but its having an effect even today as I'm in litigation now with the jdb who bought this bogus acct. I have the edge I beleive as the have no signed instrument of any kind no billing statements only an in house affidavit with no attachments. trying to do my due diligence and bring this to an end, the I will seek counsel and go after BofA.

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I've only been dealing with this since last year but it has been in my file like a cancerous cell since finding it on an old cr in 2000. Wasn't as concern or as educated in credit repair as I have become in the last year and a half.

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Maybe I'm missing a step here, but wouldn't this be way outside SOL? Wouldn't a simple FOAD letter suffice to put it to an end?

It would have been if everyone followed the rules. based on old credit reports I have it should have been outside perhaps 3 years ago but they changed the account number then charged it off at a later date sold it in 2007 depending on who's report you believe and you'd be stuck in downtown confusion.

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The letter you received from BoFA indicated that they received the account on Dec. 12, 2006 through a conversion.

I bet it was a typing error (LOL) and was aquired by the aquisition of MBNA in 2005.

Purchase of MBNA

On 30 June 2005, Bank of America announced it would purchase credit card giant MBNA for $35 billion in cash and stock. The Federal Reserve Board gave final approval to the merger on 15 December 2005, and the merger closed on 1 January 2006. The acquisition of MBNA provided Bank of America a leading credit card issuer at home and abroad. The combined Bank of America Card Services organization, including the former MBNA, had more than 40 million U.S. accounts and nearly $140 billion in outstanding balances. Under Bank of America the operation was renamed FIA Card Services

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_America#Merger_of_NationsBank_and_BankAmerica

Since they provided a copy of your check in 2002/2003 - who were the checks made out to? If they were made out to BoFA (who states that they did not take over the acct until 2006), were the checks applied to the correct account?

I assume you are just trying to delete this TL from your CR. The account was written off in May 2005, so what date are they showing as DOLA?

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[5]&[6] by quoting Reg. Z billing error section in an attempt to completely ignoring my claim of this not being my account is reprehensible. You seem intentionally neglect to mention that this same reg. has in 226.12

paragraph 12(a)(2)

1. Renewal.....It also includes the re-issuance of cards that have been suspended temporarily, but does not include the opening of a new account after a previous account was closed.

2. Substitution.....The "substitution" of one card with another on an unsolicited basis is not permissible.

BofA in its letter (B3) has advise me that an account can be change at charge off with a new number which would be unsolicited but you as the OCC can keep silent while trying to show me my allege billing error error.

[7] I will state again this is not my account, though there may be statements from 2002 to 2005 I never received one. You claim the bank didn't receive any undeliverable statements from the post office, well if you're goingto use that as a criteria then you don't have from the bank as well as the post office that they ever mailed me any statements. Can a payment be made to a fraudulent account? Can a debt collector collect on a fraudulent account? My answer to both questions is yes. I'm enclosing a sample of a Home Depot application just to show why I would pay on an account if I thought it was for a defaulted Home Depot account that was underwritten by a bank as is the case with BofA.

[8] Can you tell me how is there an enforceable contract if there is no contract or is it your oversight that in the bank's letter (B1) don't keep those around (25 months retention policy guidelines remember). Your letter continues to make declarations I don't remember you to do, such as judicial power or to interpret and enforce private contratual agreement. It's not my account so to add these things only increases my apprehension. I'm dealing with an agency that cliams to be a guardian to the consumer from unlawful banking practice turns out to be adversarial in its implementation.

[9]BofA has said but has not shown any proof by what it says. If it has obtained this account through a conversion, there should have been a copy of the material part as proof showing legal standing to the claim. How can you tell what the FDCPA does or don't allow when your opinion is based on a bank's letter.

[10] Again you make declarations of things I have never ask you to make. I've reread my letter to you and nowhere is it mention that I was seeking civil damages asking that your office come to a summary judgment and I'm appalled that you would make such a statement.

[11] The supporting documents:

1. An EX cr 1/31/97 showing HCS/VISA #XXXX, date open 1994

2. EQ cr 6/5/95 same as above

3. Application signed for acct. transfer

4. An EQ cr 5/98 shows Barnett Bank ...XXX1, on eq cr 1/99 shows NationsBank ...XXX1, Ex cr 12/2000 BofA...XXX1"ACCOUNT CLOSED"

All these documents reviewed were obviously denied a evidence.

[11a] Bank's response: The letter

1.Through conversion obtain account 2006 after it was charged off in 2005, which continued to send billing statements up until 12/2005.

2 Change the account number from XXX1 to XXX2 but all the statements show XXX1 and no statements for XXX2, (This number has never showed up on any of my credit report) and based on the bank's letter at charge off account no. XXX2 (should have statements showing XXX2 as in default) is now reflected on my cr as acct. no. XXX3.

3. Because record retention policy guidelines of keeping records, no for keeping signed applications on record all the confusion listed in #2 can't be avoided. Although this acct. was aquired in 2006 the record should have still been available until it was sold in 2007, If this policy was with the previous owner then its origin is at best a questimation and the account is not certain nor complete.

4. Changing acct. number at and/or near the time of charge off is not permissible by Federal law.

All it appears in this letter was accepted and has been appropriately address. So sayeth the OCC>

[12] This is one of the better paragraph.

[13] Can you say "Wolf"

Well thats it for better or for worse I sent them this letter totally p o'd

Any feedback is appreciated!

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Sometimes it hard to tell what's worse.

We get mad at the jdbs who break and manipulate laws but this just goes to show its not just them, obviously the regulations are inaffective and the people who are in charge of enforcing what regulations we do have chose to be useless.

Not that it will help but maybe a omsbudsman could intervene?

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Id start shopping my story around. And broadcast it to anyone who will listen

Budd hibbs

Ripoffreport

Bbb

Senate

Congress

Tv news

Every consumer adv. Group

Govenor

Take out space in every classified section in every major newspaper in your state.

Mail copies of the ads to boa, bad debt collection headquarters, mbna etc...

Anyone who will listen.

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Sometimes it hard to tell what's worse.

We get mad at the jdbs who break and manipulate laws but this just goes to show its not just them, obviously the regulations are inaffective and the people who are in charge of enforcing what regulations we do have chose to be useless.

Not that it will help but maybe a omsbudsman could intervene?

I'm not familiar with omsbudsman, what is its function and it in every state. I have went through my states AG who put me through to the OCC who really let me down. I hope not to seem too PO'd it just these agencies sometimes can be a real joke when it comes to consumer protection. But thanks for your input.

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Id start shopping my story around. And broadcast it to anyone who will listen

Budd hibbs

Ripoffreport

Bbb

Senate

Congress

Tv news

Every consumer adv. Group

Govenor

Take out space in every classified section in every major newspaper in your state.

Mail copies of the ads to boa, bad debt collection headquarters, mbna etc...

Anyone who will listen.

If I was President you would definately be my press secretary!

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Hey you don't have to be president if you prepare the statement, story and supporting documentation ill forward it to anyone I can think of lol.

You could set up a free homepage with story all lined out and with all supporting documents, then you'd have a nice place to keep it and people like buddhibbs etc could access it easily.

(Of course certain info must be redacted)

State level ombudsmen The job description for state offices of ombudsmen invariably nvolves the trouble-shooting function of investigating citizen complaints concerning specific acts by government agencies. For example, in Nebraska the ombudsman's duties are as follows To receive complaints from the public and from persons working in government; to investigate; and where appropriate to negotiate remedial action with the agencies involved. A secondary duty is to answer questions and assist people with problems relating to[ 15] government.[ 15] government

Since 1967 at least five states have established and continued to employ a full-time ombudsman, i.e. Hawaii, Nebraska, Alaska Iowa and Arizona ( I live in az) Other states have ombudsmen specific to particular issues.

(Don't confuse ombudsman with the ohm buds man, which is hippies that smoke bud while meditating and saying tibetan chants.... ohmmmmmm this buds great maaaan ohmmmm. These people are usually not helpful in dealing with the government)

Now, if we can't find one for your state, we can always see what laws are available to you in the states where boa, mbna, bad debt collector have headquarters.

Edited by ditaloca
...
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It would have been if everyone followed the rules. based on old credit reports I have it should have been outside perhaps 3 years ago but they changed the account number then charged it off at a later date sold it in 2007 depending on who's report you believe and you'd be stuck in downtown confusion.

Be aware that the SOL clock is now ticking against YOU should you decide to litigate this to a conclusion.

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I guess suing them works too, but I like my evil genius super elaborate for no real purpose at all better.

Yeah you could sue them and get it over it but this would be like just hiring a sniper who takes out james bond in one shot.

That's not as fun as spending millions on a smear campaign, making toliet paper with the faces of the president of boa and fl comptrollers office, advertising on every channel and paper and newspaper, I mean come on!

We can hold rallys and marches.

I am thinking with creative thinking we could possible hire some experts that could tye inaccurate reporting on credit report to early death. I'm thinking it kills more people a year than cancer, car accidents or bee stings combined. I also think we could get an expert to say people in the comptollers office are known puppy kickers, and they are somehow in the pocket of boa, who another expert would say funds mafia in russia as well.

I mean if boa can make up stuff and put it on your cr and send it to comptroller, why can't we?

(I of course am joking)

I don't know !

(Please read with voice of sarcasm )

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Be aware that the SOL clock is now ticking against YOU should you decide to litigate this to a conclusion.

Yeah I think it something like 2 year fromthe point of discovering it and 5 years from the date it actually started.

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I guess suing them works too, but I like my evil genius super elaborate for no real purpose at all better.

Yeah you could sue them and get it over it but this would be like just hiring a sniper who takes out james bond in one shot.

That's not as fun as spending millions on a smear campaign, making toliet paper with the faces of the president of boa and fl comptrollers office, advertising on every channel and paper and newspaper, I mean come on!

We can hold rallys and marches.

I am thinking with creative thinking we could possible hire some experts that could tye inaccurate reporting on credit report to early death. I'm thinking it kills more people a year than cancer, car accidents or bee stings combined. I also think we could get an expert to say people in the comptollers office are known puppy kickers, and they are somehow in the pocket of boa, who another expert would say funds mafia in russia as well.

I mean if boa can make up stuff and put it on your cr and send it to comptroller, why can't we?

(I of course am joking)

I don't know !

(Please read with voice of sarcasm )

I was thinking of maybe doing a Jack Bauer thing on them and make them talk amd tell me the truth, for the sake of this country. Take them in a dark room get in their face and screaming in their face"FROM NOW ON DO YOUR JOB" now give me that teddy bear.

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Newryman base on BofA's letter they charged it off in 2005, diffedrent crs have it on 2006 and 2007. If the sol clock is ticking at which point does it start at the charge off fom their letter's statement or the crs, or is at another point other than c/o.

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