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Trueq , Wow need to know more about (JAMS arbitration! ) in Vegas , I don't know if you have seen any of my posts , a lot of members have been helping me a lot . I have four cases going on right now , I have went to my first pretrial , they set my trial date but then when I demanded a trial by jury they said they would set the date later . I have listed the court records below , I need to understand more about arbitration in Vegas , I would love to go that way , One of the cases is my wife's and she is not looking forward to a jury trial . At what point can I invoke my rights to arbitration ? Can it be done even if a trial date is set ?

6/29/2009 3MTN TO DISMISS - CIVIL

6/29/2009 2MTN TO DISMISS - CIVIL

6/29/2009

1MTN TO DISMISS - CIVIL

6/24/2009

DF11SUMMONS/NTA RETURN SRVD:SRVD

6/5/09

6/17/2009DF11MOTION:DEF'S MOTION TO QUASH SERVICE

(CLERK MAILED COPY TO PLTF'S ATTY)

5/22/2009

DF11SUMMONS/NTA ISSUED:

7/23/09 @ 10 AM 5/11/2009 5COMPLAINT: 5/11/2009 4MEMORANDUM TO CLERK

5/11/2009 3FILING OPENED FOR SRS 5/11/2009PL12ASM:SC SUMMONS ISSUED

5/11/2009PL11ASM:SC FF $500.01 - $2500

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

6/26/2009 1MTN TO DISMISS - CIVILDEF'S MOTION TO DISMISS COMPLAINT

(CLERK MAILED COPY TO PLTF'S ATTY)

6/24/2009DF11SUMMONS/NTA RETURN SRVD:SRVD

6/5/09

/17/2009DF11MOTION:DEF'S MOTION TO QUASH SERVICE

(CLERK MAILED COPY TO PLTF'S ATTY)

5/22/2009DF11SUMMONS/NTA ISSUED:7/23/09 @ 9 AM

5/11/2009 4COMPLAINT:

5/11/2009 3FILING OPENED FOR SRS 5/11/2009PL12ASM:SC SUMMONS ISSUED

5/11/2009PL11ASM:SC FF $500.01 - $2500

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

6/26/2009 1MTN TO DISMISS - CIVILDEF'S MOTION TO DISMISS COMPLAINT

(CLERK MAILED COPY TO PLTF'S ATTY)

6/24/2009DF11SUMMONS/NTA RETURN SRVD:SRVD

6/5/09 6/17/2009 1MOTION:DEF'S MOTION TO QUASH SERVICE

(CLERK MAILED COPY TO PLTF'S ATTY)

5/22/2009DF11SUMMONS/NTA ISSUED:

7/23/09 @ 9 AM 5/11/2009 4COMPLAINT: 5/11/2009 3FILING OPENED FOR SRS

5/11/2009PL12ASM:SC SUMMONS ISSUED

5/11/2009PL11ASM:SC FF $2500.01-$5000

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

6/26/2009 1MTN TO DISMISS - CIVIL

6/23/2009 5MISCELLANEOUS DOCUMENT

6/23/2009 4REQUEST FOR PRODUCTION 6/23/2009 3REQUEST FOR ADMISSIONS

6/23/2009 2INTERROGATORIES 6/23/2009 1MEMORANDUM TO CLERK

6/17/2009 5REQUEST:DEF'S DISPUTE TO COMPLAINT

6/17/2009 4ANSWER AND AFFIRMATIVE

DEFENSEDEF'S ANSWER TO COMPLAINT AND DEFENSES (F.I.O.C.)

6/17/2009 3MOTION:DEF'S MOTION TO REQUEST PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS (F.I.O.C.)

W/ATTACHMENTS

6/17/2009 2REQUEST TO PRODUCEDEF'S COPY OF REQUEST TO PRODUCE TO PLTF (F.I.O.C.)

6/17/2009 1PRE TRIAL CONFERENCE ORDERDEF FILED ANSWER/AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES (F.I.O.C.);

DEF REQUESTED TRIAL BY JURY; PLTF OBJECTED; COURT WILL

ALLOW TRIAL DATE TO BE SET BY MUTUAL CONSENT OF PARTIES;

COURT WILL COORDINATE HEARINGS AS TO DEF'S MOTIONS

6/11/2009DF11SUMMONS/NTA RETURN SRVD:SRVD 5/20/09 5/11/2009DF16SUMMONS/NTA ISSUED:

5/11/2009 5COMPLAINT: 5/11/2009 4MEMORANDUM TO CLERK 5/11/2009 3FILING OPENED FOR SRS

5/11/2009PL12ASM:SC SUMMONS ISSUED 5/11/2009PL11ASM:SC FF $2500.01-$5000

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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First off, my state has powerful case law AGAINST credit card arbitration award confirmation:

Coady vs Cross Country Bank

http://www.wicourts.gov/ca/opinion/DisplayDocument.pdf?content=pdf&seqNo=27918

When this ruling came down, ALL PENDING CREDIT CARD ARBITRATION CONFIRMATIONS WERE DISMISSED IN EVERY COUNTY! Even those where debtor did not oppose confirmation. 2.5 years later no one has attempted to confirm a credit card arbitration against a consumer.

This got me thinking. After reading cardholder argeements with arbitration, all of them allow CONSUMER arbitration exercise, by consumer, on them. To date I've done it on 9 lawsuits. 8 times the judge ordered the debt collection lawyer to initiate arbitration and stayed the case. 6 months later none of them have filed arbitration. Judge has now dismissed 2 of the cases for failure to prosecute. They are afraid of Coady. Arbitration renders their claim worthless because arbitration award can never be confirmed in my state. If you read Coady close it tends to do with credit card arbitration unfairly stripping consumers of their rights under the Wisconsin Consumer Act (WCA), which are unwaivable.

Since I cannot waive my rights under WCA, how can they arbitrate without violating my rights? Answer: They can't.

2 important things you need to understand about arbitration:

1.) Arbitration awards are MEANINGLESS unless they can be confirmed in court as a judgment.

2.) ARBITRATION EXERCISE WAIVES ALL LITIGATION RIGHTS OF THE OTHER SIDE!!!!!

This STRATEGY was all fine and dandy until I got the judge who was "on to me" with the Coady ruling. He ordered me to initiate. This is a quandry, if I initiate arbitration, can I waive my rights under WCA? Not likely, but it could be possible. I got a lemon ruling on this case, so I made Lemonade.

First, if you read Crap1 cardholder agreement it has 3 choices for arbitrators: NAF, AAA, and JAMS.

NAF is a scam, stay away from them

AAA is better, but weak compared to JAMS for consumers.

JAMS. This is their homepage.

http://www.jamsadr.com/

Under their rules you get to select the arbitrator, and LOCATION. Crap1 agreement says nothing about it except subject to arbitrator forum rules! So I selected the 3 most liberal, pro consumer arbitrators (resume's are on JAMS web site, its like judge shopping with a cheat sheet!) and 2 of them happen to be in Vegas!

Next read JAMS "minimum standards of consumer fairness":

http://www.jamsadr.com/rules/consumer_min_std.asp

The only fee consumer is responsible for is $250 initial filing fee if consumer initiates. CREDIT CARD BANK IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE REST OF THE FEES under these JAMS standards!

Now read one of the crap1 cardholder amendments close (Chase and U.S. Bank also has this), crap1 will forward up to $500 for your claims in arbitration if you file a claim against them!!!!!

Translation I PAY ZERO FOR ARBITRATION.

The circuit court judge will probably allow arbitration and stay case.

But other side, if they want to rumble in arbitration, will have to object to location (Chicago JAMS location is nearest to me, I will counter that it will have to be in Vegas or my Federal district, NOT Chicago), they will also object to arbitratior, I will counter, since they are the flipping bill; I will then demand a 3 arbitrator panel if they push me about my arbitrator selections! Mega $$$ upgrade for 3 person arbitrator panel.

If this arbitration comes to fruition, and by some miracle they get and award, they still have to face Coady on the confirmation in local court. If they get the arbitration confirmation into a judgment in local court, by some miracle, I will appeal, of course, under misapplication of Coady (attempting to waive my unwaivable WCA rights.)

My main point is: I had some fun with this one and if you take time to read your cardholder agreements and read JAMS rules, I think this is a legitimate option in almost any state. Especially if you read JAMS "standards of consumer fairness" you have a defense against confirmation even in states that still do confirm credit card arbitration awards. If JAMS trips up on any of the "minimum standards of consumer fairness" you can use JAMS rule violations against them in court confirmation fight....and who knows.... some of you enterprising people may just get a liberating Coady ruling in your state!

Vegas baby!

P.S. I did assert all rights and rules of evidence on "fairness" code, which means crap1 will have to travel with lawyer and witness to Vegas. Even with that assertion, it will be impossible for JAMS to uphold my WCA rights, which means Coady violation will be almost automatic on any award against me.

pps. So far, every debt lawyer gets really hacked off with arbitration exercise. When they want arbitration... its just dandy for them... but when you do it to them: it really hacks them off! Even if they railroad you in arbitration, you have set them back at least a year by exercising arbitration clause and made it way more expensive to go after you!

All this over a crap1 small claim. (less than $3500, I will burn the other side for that in arbitration fees, minimum!)

Unleash hell!

Edited by trueq

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Trueq (JAMS arbitration! ) in Vegas ??

Now read one of the crap1 cardholder amendments close (Chase and U.S. Bank also has this), crap1 will forward up to $500 for your claims in arbitration if you file a claim against them!!!!!

Translation I PAY ZERO FOR ARBITRATION.

________________________________________________________________

I Could not see any mention of the $ 500 , below I copied what it states in the agreement about cost . The copy of the agreement they served attached to their ( Capital One ) Crap 1 does fit them better , they said it was a copy of the one I agreed to , but it has a copyright of 2005 and the alleged account would have been years before that date . By the agreement below would you still think it would be zero ? If I had a trial date set could I still use my right to arbitration ? Maybe in our next three cases when I answer their complaint I should reserve my right to arbitration in my defenses ?

COST -- The party initializing arbitration will pay the initial filing fee , you may seek a waiver of the initial fee or any of the " Administrators Fees " under any applicable rules of the Administrators. If you seek but do not qualify for a waiver we will consider any written request by you to us to pay or reimburse you for all or part of the Administrators Fees . We will also pay or reimburse you for all or part of the Administrators Fees if the arbitrator determines there is good reason for us to do so . We will pay any fees and cost we are required to pay by law . Otherwise and except as provided in this Agreement , you and we will bear all of our respective fees and costs ( including the Administrators Fees and the fees and costs relating to attorneys , experts and witnesses ) regardless of who prevails . Allocation of fees and costs relating to appeals in arbitration will be handled in the same manor .

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Has a later amendment that says.

"At your request, we will advance any reasonable arbitration filing fee, or administrative and hearing fees that you are required to pay to pursue a claim in arbitration up to a the amount of $500..."

This will get back to the agrument, which Crap1 agreement (or any bank agreement) applies to your account? (Since no one signs these things.) My "primary" agreement has the language you state.

Edited by trueq

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The agreement I have..states " You or we may have a hearing in arbitration , any arbitration hearing that you attend in person will take place at a location in the federal judicial district that includes your last- known billing address or at some other place upon which you and I agree .

What would that mean ( federal judicial district ) ? If that would leave Vegas out , what about the ( other place upon which you and I agree ) If I refused any place except Vegas , then it would be there or no arbitration at all . My agreement must not have the $ 500 amendment , what is the copyright on your agreement ? Like I said the copy they attached to the complaint could not be an agreement I would have agreed to mine would have had to have been at least 7 years before that copyright of 2005 .

If I demanded arbitration it would take it out of the court system and then I demanded Vegas , then I could stall this thing for a long time . Correct ?

I have put in a Motion for Sanctions , because they charged me , with only a copy of a agreement that could have no connection to me in any way . I don't know if that will do any good at all but it sounded like it might work .

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It says an in person hearing in your home Federal Judicial district or at another location where parties agree. I'm not going to agree to anywhere but Vegas! JAMS does not have availability of an in person hearing in my federal judicial district. (Generally that means somewhere in your local chunk of the state. If debt lawyer office is not near you, this can be a good option. In my case, debt lawyer offices are near me in Federal district, I don't want it to be easy for them and JAMS rules give me lattitude to select Vegas.)

The crap1 contract does not prohibit you to selecting a hearing location per the location selection rules of the particular arbitration firm! (In this case, the JAMS arbitration office in Vegas.)

Arbitration, in my experience, has dented the timeline by at least a year, MINIMUM, or forced a outright dismissal of underlying court case. (Its really more than a year, because no one has initiated arbitration under court order.)

Ideally, ask judge to make them initiate under JAMS, then you pay nothing under JAMS standards. You also get the benefit of them doing nothing because arbitration is time consuming and costly once they are in litigation with you. (put ball in their court)

If judge forces you to initiate, ask him for 90 days to file, wait for last minute, file with JAMS, with a cover letter that other side will pay the $250 and all the other fees per their standards of fairness.

That will slow them down.

Then you can spend 6 months bickering about who pays initial arbitration fee, the conflict over your arbitrator selections, and location. Maybe a year out, an agreement on discovery can be had.

If you do it right, even if you get rung up in arbitration, it should take 2 years, maybe more.

If you feel the entangling arms of court ordered summary judgment, with railroad evidence and a railroad judge, around your neck, this is an excellent "escape" option.

The point here is: Do you see the mega mess you can create for opposing lawyer?

We will be arguing over hearing location and arbitrator for MONTHS! The more crap you put in the path, the more likely they will break the rules down the line.

The more difficult you are, the more likely the lawyer will go after the lemming Defendants.

Just a strategy thought. I'm not saying JAMS will be as fair as court, but you get to at least select a pro-consumer arbitrator, which is a damn side better then some judges out there!

Crap1 used to do arbitration to screw us, its about time we screw them with it!

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I think I am starting to get a game plan in my head , the case I am doing first , the court is supposed to coordinate a hearing so we can set the jury trial date , after we set the date and shortly before the trial date I can motion the court to force the plaintiff to give me my rights to arbitration , I like that part about _____with a cover letter that other side will pay the $250 and all the other fees per their standards of fairness.______ I also like _____We will be arguing over hearing location and arbitrator for MONTHS! The more crap you put in the path, the more likely they will break the rules down the line.

But I do want one of them to go through the jury trial process . Thanks for your help , I will probably be asking you more questions later . Good luck on your cases , What I like most is that it will give me yet another reason to go to Vegas .

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You have to give up jury trial.

But if you are pro se' and not comfortable with jury, this is the way to go. 99.9% pro se's will not be able to handle a jury. (Heck 90% of civil lawyers can't either.)

Shop for super liberal, pro consumer, adjuducator instead of the jury.

When you can, under JAMS rules, pound the bank to pay for the ENTIRE arbitration, and you can select arbitrator, and LOCATION, this is a legitimate option for consumers!!!!

JAMS just reformed all these rules in last year or two because courts have been handing these arbitration outfits the proverbial door!

Before JAMS reform, arbitration was complete BS for consumer.(been through NAF kangaroo court twice with MBNA, those "awards" expired worthless.)

NAF is still bunch of scumbags today.

However, we as consumers, need to rethink arbitration as a valuable weapon under these specified conditions!

I know I may catch some criticism on this, but decide for yourself.

I'm not here to tell you what YOU should do, just trying to help with some of the effective legal strategies I've employed against the debt lawyer monsters.

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With me its more for moral changes than it is to win the cases , I have four cases filed against me now by Capital One , three for me and one for my wife , and I am sure more will follow . I meant that I want at least one to go to jury trial , my problems started by being a jury member , to make a long story short they lied and slandered me in the court records trying to overturn our verdict and then later out of retribution they pretty much destroyed us financially ( this was State Farm Insurance , and Allstate ) , our courts are not the problem , its these huge corporations and there lawyers manipulating our laws to work against the people instead of for the people . We have lost the spirit of the law .

You said ----I know I may catch some criticism on this, but decide for yourself.---- For sure you will get no criticism from me , my wife said " her either " Credit Cards are good and the banks should make a fair profit , but they have went far , far beyond that and the J D B are a total disgrace , we need a lot more people like you and the others on this site .

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but two other JDB's, their associated law firms, and one bank has.

I'm suing them for state consumer law violations as soon as I have time to draw up the suit.

If you have been wronged...do the American thing, sue early and often, just like elections these days!

If you have an offensive claim against crap1, I highy reccomend purchasing the "Consumer Law Pleadings" from NCLC. Its $120, but has a web access code where you can access nearly 2000 sample consumer pleadings from hundreds of lawyers around the country.

Their is stuff in there, I would never think about suing on, but if you review them, you may get some ideas for "offense" action, rather than thinking purely about defense.

I agree with everything you said about crap1.

Good Luck.

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Well today I received a letter from the court , it lists Capital One as the plaintiff , and me and my wife as defendants , up until this letter it was three cases for me and one for my wife , I was worried they might want to join them but I want to make sure it stays four separate cases and four separate trials . If they were to join them it would take it well over the $ 5,000 small claims limit . I will give you a little history , when they served the summons for the last three cases we were out of town , they just left the three summons stuck in the door , so I posted a question on this site asking could they do that , FlaLawyer said I could Motion to Quash , so I did it on all three , then today I got this from the court , they also included Crap 1 for the hearing .

YOU ARE NOTIFIED that on the 27 th day of July , 2009 , at 9:00 a.m , the undersigned ( JUDGE ) shall hear the Defendants Motion to Quash at the Pretrial Conference previously set for the above date and time , in Courtroom 2C of the West Pasco Judicial Center , 7530 Little Road , New Port Richey , Florida ,DATED this 29 th day of June , 2009

Question ? The Pretrials were set for the 23 rd of July , but the hearing is set for the 27 th , so I guess that must mean they have eliminated the three pretrials for the 23 rd ? There is nothing on the county web site yet , I will give it a few days and then call the court , I just wanted some imput first . Can the court somehow join the cases ? When I read the letter real carefull I see in the wording it says ( previously set for the above date and time ) but it does not show any above date and time on the letter , We know until now it was set for the 23 rd at 9:00 a m

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You need to check your state's rules.

I had this happen to me. I got a dismissal on a case for failure to prosecute. Attorney "reopened" an attempted to consolidate with open and active case. (same bank)

I opposed because me and my wife are both on the active case. Only I was a party on the dismissed case.

They were, in essence, attempting to join my wife to the dismissed case as "good cause" to keep it open.

I had my wife submit an affidavit opposing consolidation. (She is not anywhere on paperwork for the dormant case, she cannot be joined just because debt lawyer scumbag wishes it.)

We have a hearing on 23rd. I expect to get costs on this motion and get dismissal reinstated.

Edited by trueq

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They can motion to consolidate... If that's the case then it should show up as a motion by plaintiff on the court site , I just checked the cases on there site and my MOTION FOR SANCTIONS just showed up today . Below is my motion , I have no idea if it will help or not but at least I get to vent my feelings . It sound like you and your wife are going through the same thing as we are , tell me more about ( I expect to get costs on this motion and get dismissal reinstated. ) How can you get costs ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date 6 / 22 / 2009

IN THE COUNTY COURT OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF PASCO

Case No.__xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

MOTION FOR SANCTIONS

CAPITAL ONE BANK

Plaintiff

Vs.

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Defendant

COMES Now Defendant, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxand files this MOTION FOR SANCTIONS , and requests the Court to grant such SANCTIONS based on facts stated below:

MOTION FOR SANCTIONS

The Plaintiff , Capital One Bank , and the Law Firm claiming to represent them Rubin & Debski are sometimes following the letter of the law but are committing acts that are contrary to the spirit of the law. They are acting in an antisocial, irritating manner while technically staying within the bounds of the rules. Examples listed below show their acts to be illegal at times and at other times following the letter of the law but not the sprit of the law .

1 . The " Agreement " attached to their complaint is a copy of a standard credit card agreement that by itself has no connection to me in anyway . At the pretrial conference / mediation I stated I had contacted the plaintiff by phone , by fax , by certified mail for validation of their claim , and that they would not furnish me with any information , I asked the amount ? I was told 4,754.44 , I asked for facts about their claim ? I was told by the plaintiff that I would get that at the trial . Our laws and rules for the conference / mediation although informal are for the purpose of reaching an agreement so a trial may not be necessary the plaintiffs lawyers know this , but they still attend the meeting with nothing more than a statement " pay us 4,754.44 "or we are taking you to trial. I contend the plaintiff's sole purpose of attending the conference was to use the threat of a trial to intimated and harass me into an agreement to pay 4,754.44 even though they had shown no facts that I in any way owed them anything .

They may not have broken any laws or rules by their actions but clearly they have not followed the sprit of the law . They are using the courts conference / mediation to intimated and harass , they need to be sanctioned for this .

2 . Prior to my case , I sat in the courtroom and watched case after case be called and the defendant not showing up for their pretrial conference / mediation . I contend that outside of the court system they use these same antisocial, irritating manners and willfully and /or negligently mislead , confuse , intimated and harass these defendants with letter after letter , phone call after phone call so they do not show up for their court hearing , they do this to obtain a judgment . I also contend the defendants are misled by the amount the plaintiffs list on their complaint , mine stated apx. 2,600 plus interest on their complaint and at the meeting the plaintiff stated apx. 4,700. I contend the defendants had no idea the amount demanded could be so excessive .

3 . These Plaintiffs and lawyers are creating a system similar to a fast food system , they are using our court system as a fast judgement system , they need to be sanctioned for this . In the name of justice this court should take steps to correct this . We have a wonderful court system ran by honorable people we hold in high esteem , I pray this will not be allowed to change .

______________________________

Defendant

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Port Richey Fl 34668

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However,

One thing you should pick up from our conversation, is a global perspective about court strategy.

ITS NEVER OVER UNTIL YOU STOP FIGHTING!

Again...

ITS NEVER OVER UNTIL YOU STOP FIGHTING!

Witness the following WSJ article:

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/showthread.php?p=917846#post917846

This guy is an inspirational hero. (I probably would have filed a Ch. 13 day before eviction, but its hard to criticize him for what he accomplished.)

Think global.

I have a judgment on appeals court level awaiting a decision. Meanwhile debt scumbag is dragging me in for contempt for a second time for not paying the judgment! (I mopped the floor with him by resoundingly defeating his 1st contempt motion!) This time I got pissed. In response to his frivilous motion, (there is an automatic stay in place under WI Ch. 128 plan) I filed an excellent motion to vacate (I had 3 lawyers I had look at it, said it was excellent, and kept a copy for themselves! I told him they could have a copy if 'no charge' for review, they all took the deal!). I also filed a Counter motion for contempt AND filed for Attorney fees and costs. (copied these from other court files from excellent consumer attorney.)

So in this case, I'm attacking judgment at court of appeals level. Circuit court level. AND I'm about to file a collateral attack, offensive lawsuit, against legal firm for asserting a "right they know not to exist" under state law, a clear debt collection violation. Actual damages under state law include the amount of judgment obtained in violation of state debt collection law!

The point here is: You are at the baby step in the process. See the big picture. Think on multiple levels!

You have the advantage, your legal services are *free*, they can burn thousands of $ dealing with just one of your motions!

Unleashing the arbitration hound is just one of hundreds of ideas you should be looking at!

p.s. Just as an aside. If I lose the current appeal AND lose motion to vacate, I have grounds to appeal the motion to vacate, in essence, a second bite at appeal! One attoreny says he would handle the appeal on the vacation motion, if I lose both. He's almost sure I'm going to get this judgment overturned! Meanwhile, I can always petition State Supreme court to review the current 1st Appeals Court decision, if need be. This will translate into years! ( only need 3.5 years yet, then SOL lapses on most everything, and any leftover judgments could be forced to a ch. 13, or WI Ch. 128.)

Edited by trueq

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Great info:

Just one question - how does a Wisconsin ruling affect you in Las Vegas?

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Under the WI Coady vs. Cross Country Bank ruling, credit card arbitration is procedurally and substantively unconscienable if it waives your unwaivable Wisconsin Consumer Act rights!

Arbitration clauses waive Wisconsin Consumer Act rights nearly 100% of the time under the Coady ruling!

Translation: JAMS has to uphold WI Consumer law, even in Vegas, or the arbitration runs afoul of Coady.

If JAMS upholds WI law, I should win arbitration. If they don't, and ignore WI law...see Coady. Confirmation will be near impossible for bank, since arbitration clause language in Coady is nearly identical to every arbitration clause out there.

This is why debt lawyers squeal like a pig when I exercise arbitration, per the cardholder agrement, on them.

And they sure squeal loud too!

I locked on to this strategy when I noticed 2 of the sham NAF awards against me expire worthless on the 12 month confirmation limit after the award is rendered. I investigated as to why after reading all the NAF confirmation horrer stories on here.

Either way, I've backed them into a crapbox, the cardholder agreement allows, that will be difficult for them to get out of.

When this idea "catches on" it will be the begining of the end of mandatory arbitration clauses in credit card contracts....

but I estimate that is 5 years away.

p.s. So far, to date, I've only lost involving a credit card WITHOUT a binding arbitration clause. 2 judgments to same bank. (1 on appeal, other in court ordered 36 month Ch. 128 payment plan. Which includes automatic stay like BK!)

Edited by trueq

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Here is an update on the Davet case: http://www.msfraud.org/LAW/Lounge/Davet_Writ%20of%20Cert.pdf

His dogged determinism is laudible, but I believe somewhat misplaced.

As misplaced as the 7 figures sums used by the banks to try and squash him over a debt that was so much smaller?

I kinda like how he thinks, not so much outside the box as 50,000 feet above the box looking down sayin' man I if only they would legalize what I am smoking the world would truly change. :p

It really is difficult to decide which party is the more insane in the whole chain of events. He is having a great deal of fun along a road few of us get to travel. The interesting thing is how many of his points have subsequently not only been validated but incorporated into other judgements. Perhaps he is not as crazy as the man portrays him.

Besides the world needs more characters and fewer corporate lawyers acting for financial institutions. :mrgreen:

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I knew he was filing this, but I did not hear if it was accepted for review.

Anything petitioned to the Supreme Court is like spitting into the fan set on high in hopes it makes it through to the other side.

I think there is issues of "reasonablness" on both sides, but I have to side with Davet. Even though he used his house as a piggy bank, he sounds like he was getting screwed on late fees unfairly.

I would have Ch. 13 BOA's sorry a$$ just before the foreclosure sale. Then he could have said...16 years, the biggest and best law firms, and the biggest and baddest bank couldn't get me.

He still could have cross sued BOA in Ch. 13, while protecting the house.

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It says an in person hearing in your home Federal Judicial district or at another location where parties agree. I'm not going to agree to anywhere but Vegas! JAMS does not have availability of an in person hearing in my federal judicial district. (Generally that means somewhere in your local chunk of the state. If debt lawyer office is not near you, this can be a good option. In my case, debt lawyer offices are near me in Federal district, I don't want it to be easy for them and JAMS rules give me lattitude to select Vegas.)

The crap1 contract does not prohibit you to selecting a hearing location per the location selection rules of the particular arbitration firm! (In this case, the JAMS arbitration office in Vegas.)

Arbitration, in my experience, has dented the timeline by at least a year, MINIMUM, or forced a outright dismissal of underlying court case. (Its really more than a year, because no one has initiated arbitration under court order.)

Ideally, ask judge to make them initiate under JAMS, then you pay nothing under JAMS standards. You also get the benefit of them doing nothing because arbitration is time consuming and costly once they are in litigation with you. (put ball in their court)

If judge forces you to initiate, ask him for 90 days to file, wait for last minute, file with JAMS, with a cover letter that other side will pay the $250 and all the other fees per their standards of fairness.

That will slow them down.

Then you can spend 6 months bickering about who pays initial arbitration fee, the conflict over your arbitrator selections, and location. Maybe a year out, an agreement on discovery can be had.

If you do it right, even if you get rung up in arbitration, it should take 2 years, maybe more.

If you feel the entangling arms of court ordered summary judgment, with railroad evidence and a railroad judge, around your neck, this is an excellent "escape" option.

The point here is: Do you see the mega mess you can create for opposing lawyer?

We will be arguing over hearing location and arbitrator for MONTHS! The more crap you put in the path, the more likely they will break the rules down the line.

The more difficult you are, the more likely the lawyer will go after the lemming Defendants.

Just a strategy thought. I'm not saying JAMS will be as fair as court, but you get to at least select a pro-consumer arbitrator, which is a damn side better then some judges out there!

Crap1 used to do arbitration to screw us, its about time we screw them with it!

Because I am also thinking about utilizing the clause, I went looking at the JAMS site and found this in the consumer minimum fairness standards regarding location (effective 7/15/09) -

The consumer must have a right to an in-person hearing in his or her hometown area.

Now, would that mean that the OC (crap1 in particular) would have to pay for the arbitrator to come to my hometown? Including any fees for travel, securing a room for the hearing, etc? Just curious...:)

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This is especially useful if there is no JAMS arbitration office near you!!!!! I even go so far as, in my demand for arbitration, to have it take place in my small town in the middle of nowhere!!!!

If you read JAMS "minimum standards of consumer fairness", credit card company pays all JAMS fees, except initial $250 if consumer initiates arbitration.

If Cap1 initiates, consumer pays nothing.

Naturally, if Cap1 "invests" all these resources against you, they may attempt, per the clause, to attach all these arbitration fees to the award they may get against you. You can oppose this with the arbitrator. (so pick a good "pro-consumer" arbitrator by reading JAMS bios!!!!)

HOWEVER, many times this Cap1 arbitration clause to nail you with these ARBITRATION fees IS A PROVISION IN VIOLATION OF YOUR STATES CONSUMER LAW!!!!!!

THIS IS YET ANOTHER DEFENSE AGAINST AN EVENTUAL ARBITRATION CONFIRMATION IN COURT! The award includes fees in violation of state law.

(state law varies, so check your state's law on this.)

In my state, I can sue Cap1 for doing what I describe.

Remember, you are not just burning arbitration fees, you are burning opposing attorney's time as well!

That's why credit card companies are going to take these clauses out!!!!

EDIT CLARIFICATION: 1 of the JAMS arbitration i demanded hearing in Vegas. Other one I demanded in my hometown. In case, anyone was concerned about incongruency with title of thread.

Edited by trueq

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trueq. I'm interested in pursuing JAMS, but I'm worried about the costs. I don't want to rack up huge costs only to reach an agreement and then have to foot half the bill with Cap 1 for their costs and attorney fees. The debt is only $2,300 ish. That's with attorney fees and court costs. That's the only thing I worry about, and I still haven't been able to find anything about whether those costs violate Illinois consumer protection laws.

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