tommy32

Cash for clunkers did not work

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Well I wanted to trade my used car in to get the 4500 rebate and my car turned out to get one mpg more than what is allowed. I went on the web site and looked it up my self. My car supposedly gets 19 mpg and you have to get 18 mpg or less. I was disappointed because I really wanted to rebuild my credit with the loan. Since I do not have the extra cash 5000 to put down right now looks like it will be a year or more before I can save enough up to buy a car. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ this is the site that the dealerships use to check your fuel economy for your trade in to see if it qualifys. I wish I had known about that before they ran my credit!!! Now I have a bunch of inquiries.

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That's a bummer. How much can you get for your car in the private resale market? You'd be shocked what older cars are worth right now. Their values have increased over the past two years as new car values plummeted.

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That's a bummer. How much can you get for your car in the private resale market? You'd be shocked what older cars are worth right now. Their values have increased over the past two years as new car values plummeted.

I am not sure...I don't think much my car has a lot of miles.. 303102, and the exterior is starting to rot lol...But engine and transmission are great I took care of the car.It is a 1994 Ford Taurus SHO 3.2 V 6 > I am proud of my car she lasted me a long long time...I guess if a SHO nut wanted it for parts I could sell it to them but I really don't think anyone will buy it.

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In true ridiculous government program fashion the local millionaire farmer down the street from me got his "cash for clunkers" rebate. He blew his gas guzzling truck engine a week prior to program and was looking for a truck anyway.

So we subsidized the rich farmer. Naturally, he didn't vote for Obama but thought cash for clunkers was "good government". This is coming from someone who constantly tells me government DOESN'T WORK.

I'm just relaying this so you can send an angry letter to your congressman to stop taxing you to subsidize the the rich guy.

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I agree. This program is insane for a variety of reasons. The biggest reason is most of the people that are driving beat up old gas guzzlers are doing so because they cannot afford to by a new vehicle. This entices these buyers to take on massive foolish debt for the next few years. And likely not at a 0-2% rate that a cash-wealthy buyer would get. It is a recipe for disaster.

Other reasons this policy are awful include the fact that we aren't even paying for it. We're borrowing the money from Asia to be paid back by our children and grandchildren. New cars now at the expense of a lower standard of living by people not born yet?

How about the fact that many who acted responsibly and bought efficient vehicles years ago are locked out of the program because their vehicles get more than 18mpg. These people now get to assist the irresponsible with their mortgages and pay, in part, for others to buy new vehicles.

These programs are turning personal responsibility on their head and promoting consumer debt. Every aspect of this thing is a failure.

Edited by jq26

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"cash for clunkers" is just a personification of the problem.

I worked 100 hours a week for years. I ended up paying an egregous amount of taxes, sucking my company into a black hole. (Which was topped off by a tax audit where I was socked for following previous erroneous advice of tax agency doing the audit. Had to fight. Other business owners were on line over issue. I won and got a $4000 tax refund from audit, but fight cost me $100,000! Saved other business owners, but screwed myself. I guess I'm just a selfless guy.))

I scaled back, sold off some of the company, payed off secured debt, scaled back my salary, paid someone else to do my job and I get free food and healthcare in my state. (I keep salary just below 150% of FPL) I struggled all those years to pay for both food and medical insurance for my family when the government was just giving it away.

This way it also reduces my tax burden as well!

Call it in terms of "Atlas shrugged": this is one achiever and producer on strike!

I essentially litgate semi-full time for fun now. I'm really going to ratchet up my debt collection lawsuits I'm filing.

By the way, I'm also "indigent" by my state's statue, by virtue of receiving "foodshare", so I get free court filing fees, and process service!

This is way better than "earning" a living. If I saw hope, based on who's running the country, I would go back to "producer" status.

However, if its just going to be taken anyway: why bust your a$$? Almost anyone can earn more for sitting on it! Tax free!!!!!

I'd rather spend time with my kids.

Edited by trueq

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My fiancee is a sales manager for an auto marketing company. Basically he travels to different dealerships around the country with a sales team putting on these big car "sales". Because of the recession, sales have been horrible here so he unfortunately has to travel to where people are buying.

We talked about this last week and he stated that although some people who probably don't need the help are benefiting from this, several people who wouldn't normally get crap for their trade are finally able to get into a new car. The number one car being purchased since this started is the Ford Focus. This is a very inexpensive car and my fiancee (who started selling at Ford a few years ago) has always said it's the one sold to "special finance" customers who can't afford a huge car note anyway. So contrary to what people would like to believe, the majority of people running out to go get into debt they can't afford thanks to this program, is very minimal.

I'm personally thankful for it. Due to this program he doesn't have to travel out of state right now for these big sales because we now finally have some traffic flowing through the dealerships here at home, money in our pockets, and a little less stress on all the car salesmen who are still trying to make a living right now.

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This issue is all about the ongoing, and unintended consequences, of government disincentives to work, achievement, and production.

How far can this "cash for clunkers" government intervention in the marketplace last?

At what cost?

At what obligation to everyone else? (taxes to fund "cash for clunkers" are made of the hard hard work and sweat of others.)

The benefit will be temporary at best, and I hate to say it, but your husband may be facing the same issues when the government "program" runs out. Does government fund "cash for clunkers" forever?

The issue becomes, the middle class has to be taxed to pay for it. Obama is already talking about it. This will squeeze middle class and they will to continue to say "screw it" and opt for the handout rather than busting their hump to work for others.

Your husband may have to make that decision as well. I know I did. Take the handouts and enjoy family time amid scaled back working, or bust hump 60 hours a week to have it taxed all away and then still not be able to afford food and health insurance for the family.

My industry will never get a government bailout, so we will be taxed to fund other industries.

This is why this achiever is on strike.

Edited by trueq

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At what obligation to everyone else? (taxes to fund "cash for clunkers" are made of the hard hard work and sweat of others.)

well I make a very good living, we aren't rich, but I do very well. I pay my fair share in taxes, and I find it appalling that my "hard work and sweat" tax dollars have gone to fund a war I don't believe in, but I also understand how this all works. I'm unfortunately not going to agree with everything that happens with every penny of the money I pay for taxes.

In the end, sorry it didn't work for the OP. Congrats to those who are benefiting.

Edited by swtprncess281
Deleted paragraph because it would start a pointless (political) debate...

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Your "fair share" is double what you pay now?

Will it be worth it to work?

What happens if, all of a sudden, the car industry is NOT a favored status industry, subject to getting all these tax handouts? (I never understood why it was a favored industry in the first place.)

How are we going to pay for 'clunkers', 'nationalized health care', the war, the neverending bailouts, and all the other spending?

The top 2% already pay 40% of all taxes. If we confiscated the ENTIRE wealth of the top 1% income taxpayers and the top Fortune 500 companies, it would only fund this Federal budget about 3 months. (Ignoring all the companies and jobs that would be destroyed in the process for a minute.)

Over 50% of us pay no federal income taxes at all. (You would be in the top 5% of taxpayers if you make $150,000/year or more. "Rich" by most people's standards.)

Where is all the money government money going to come from?

You make a "very good living", how can the government, with all the other spending priorities, afford it, without taxing it away from you?

I've heard "rich" now (re)defined as anyone making over $50,000/year.

Your story, while great to hear, just personifies how government "clunkers" is subsidizing the "rich" and the "well off".

I would also admit to being "well off". Some would say even "rich".

I didn't take advantage of clunkers because I like my paid off clunkers I drive, but there are other programs I, legally, take advantage of.

In the short term we are both very happy about it!

However, I see the irreputable damage this does to our country long term. (I have no incentive to expand, invest, and create more jobs for fear my extra work will be taxed away again or be another subject of the moving target game of "gotcha" by any one of the hundreds of taxing agencies or regulatory authorities.)

Life is good.

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::jacked:: Well in an effort to not have my privileges taken away by the creditinfo "powers that be", I think I'm gonna let this one go. :)++ It appears we've stopped straddling the political fence and just fallen right on over. Beside, I've learned over the past 8 months that this isn't an argument I'm going to win and the more I have it, the more peaceful my companies office in Canada start to look. :ROFLMAO2:

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I don't see anything political here. It isn't a partisan conversation.

How about the possibility that, similar to the $8000 housing tax credit, we might just be pushing forward future sales? That just means when the tax goodies expire it is possible that sales fall even more than before. Plus, at what cost? There is a whole in the US Treasury that we could drive a truck through. Right now we are running deficits that would require a DOUBLING of personal income tax rates. Tax your tax bill and double it. Weigh that against the "benefit" of all of these artificial stimulants. They're a mirage.

At this point, I've pretty much given up on this country unfortunately. Over the past year, my investment money has moved overseas. My goal is to take care of my family, maximize my investment income, and minimize my US tax bill at all cost. Seems an innumerate entitlement-demanding electorate has taken its toll. :cool:

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Well for what it is worth I can afford a car payment...as a matter of fact I picked a car that I was interested in, that I knew I could afford the payments on. My problem is not income...it really never has been, I just have shi@$y credit. I have been constantly employed ever since I left the Army in 2001. I was banking on the 4500 rebate plus the 2000 rebate for a total of 6500$ off the 16K loan and only have to repay 10K. I wanted to take a 7 year loan for the lower payment and pay double when I could and if I ran into a tough month due to whatever..I had a low enough payment that would not leave me starving to death but looking good LMAO.

Anyways I was hesitant about even applying, and I wish I never did that. Now, like I said all I got out of it was a BS salesman false BS promises as usual, and a BS finance guy. As far as I am concerned they can take their balloons, free soda's, hot dogs and fancy dealership and shove it. I don't mean to sound angry, because I am not., I am just irritated, and I see why these dealers suffer and I have no pity what so ever for them at all. :mrgreen: Thanks for all the responses!!!! I enjoy reading them...:wink:

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I don't see anything political here. It isn't a partisan conversation.

How about the possibility that, similar to the $8000 housing tax credit, we might just be pushing forward future sales? That just means when the tax goodies expire it is possible that sales fall even more than before. Plus, at what cost? There is a whole in the US Treasury that we could drive a truck through. Right now we are running deficits that would require a DOUBLING of personal income tax rates. Tax your tax bill and double it. Weigh that against the "benefit" of all of these artificial stimulants. They're a mirage.

At this point, I've pretty much given up on this country unfortunately. Over the past year, my investment money has moved overseas. My goal is to take care of my family, maximize my investment income, and minimize my US tax bill at all cost. Seems an innumerate entitlement-demanding electorate has taken its toll. :cool:

You know jq26...I used to want a home REAL bad...but here lately the past year that desire has just run out. I guess it is because of my laziness when I clock out from work LMAO. It would be pulling teeth to get me to rake a fu&@ing yard, fix a roof, snow blow snow, fix leaky faucets, toilets, ETC. I just don't want to deal with that. I just LOVE watching the guy plow snow and snow blow snow in the winter snow storms here, I sit from my window and I am sooo happy I am not the one out there doing it LOL. The guys I know that own homes are Constantly fixing and doing crap, some big repairs some small, I just don't want that, So I think I will just stay where I am. :-)

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Have you guys seen the volvo video on youtube? Do a search for "cash for clunkers volvo" or something along those terms. Apparently the bill says every traded in clunker has to be destroyed. WTF? I understand that they are trying to rid the streets of the clunkers but when the car you are trading in gets one less mile per gallon than the car you are purchasing, why destroy the f'ing car? Donate to charity or something......

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Well for what it is worth I can afford a car payment...as a matter of fact I picked a car that I was interested in, that I knew I could afford the payments on. My problem is not income...it really never has been, I just have shi@$y credit. I have been constantly employed ever since I left the Army in 2001. I was banking on the 4500 rebate plus the 2000 rebate for a total of 6500$ off the 16K loan and only have to repay 10K. I wanted to take a 7 year loan for the lower payment and pay double when I could and if I ran into a tough month due to whatever..I had a low enough payment that would not leave me starving to death but looking good LMAO.

Anyways I was hesitant about even applying, and I wish I never did that. Now, like I said all I got out of it was a BS salesman false BS promises as usual, and a BS finance guy. As far as I am concerned they can take their balloons, free soda's, hot dogs and fancy dealership and shove it. I don't mean to sound angry, because I am not., I am just irritated, and I see why these dealers suffer and I have no pity what so ever for them at all. :mrgreen: Thanks for all the responses!!!! I enjoy reading them...:wink:

Don't worry you sound angry, but you have a right to be. They shouldn't have pulled your credit before they checked to see if you even qualified for the C4C. Don't feel sorry for all the salesmen, but they aren't all bad ;-) Richard always says that people go into a furniture store and pay exactly whats on the sticker with no haggeling. If we had a clue how much they mark up furniture we would never complain about car salesmen again! Our circle of friends are mostly salesmen and while some have great stories of helping people and working hard for them, some have horrible stories of screwing over the old lady who doesn't know any better. He is getting tired of it and we are hoping to get out of it soon, but right now pickings are slim in the job market and you can't go to many other places and make what's he's making doing these big sales.

I do understand the BS because I bought a car about a year after DF started selling. I remember going to the dealership (by myself) because I just knew soooo much. They had my paperwork done, special financing at a 18% interest rate with some random company, and had started washing the car (a used 05 Honda Accord) before I could say anything. I called DH to go over the paperwork and he said "Leave RIGHT now. Don't say anything just walk away and go down the street to their other store" I was pissed because I knew my score was low 500 and if they wanted to give me a car I was gonna take it. I took his advice anyway and went down the street to the other Honda store (owned by the same people) only difference is we knew the Sales Manager and Finance guy. Took 6 hours, but I left with a brand new Honda Accord, and loan through Honda Finance at 7%! The guy from the other dealership called me to see if I was ready to come get his car and I said H3LL no!

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Anyways I was hesitant about even applying, and I wish I never did that. Now, like I said all I got out of it was a BS salesman false BS promises as usual, and a BS finance guy. As far as I am concerned they can take their balloons, free soda's, hot dogs and fancy dealership and shove it. I don't mean to sound angry, because I am not., I am just irritated, and I see why these dealers suffer and I have no pity what so ever for them at all. :mrgreen: Thanks for all the responses!!!! I enjoy reading them...:wink:

Why didnt the dealership check if your vehicle qualified before pulling credit?? That doesnt make any sense and is just wrong. Seems that would be the first step.

Have you guys seen the volvo video on youtube? Do a search for "cash for clunkers volvo" or something along those terms. Apparently the bill says every traded in clunker has to be destroyed. WTF? I understand that they are trying to rid the streets of the clunkers but when the car you are trading in gets one less mile per gallon than the car you are purchasing, why destroy the f'ing car? Donate to charity or something......

Yup. Supposedly they are to be destroyed within 10 days after trading in. It does seem like a waste but the true test will be how big the impact is I suppose.

I think there are ALOT of misconceptions about this program. One being is that people don't realize their current vehicle needs to be paid off. If there are any liens/loans on the vehicle this program may not benefit you.

I have a Range Rover that gets a whopping 12 mpg. I owe $22k and its only worth $7k or 8k. I would LOVE to get something with better gas mileage, but guess what? Not happening.

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I have a Range Rover that gets a whopping 12 mpg. I owe $22k and its only worth $7k or 8k. I would LOVE to get something with better gas mileage, but guess what? Not happening.
But you do get the privilege of paying for someone else's new car, so that should make you feel warm and fuzzy. Great program, heh? ;)

The vehicles are destroyed. They pour a chemical down the gas tank and then start it, which seizes the engine and puts it out of commission permanently. The whole purpose is to get less efficient vehicles off the road. Donating them to charity would defeat the purpose, or so goes the theory.

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The whole purpose is to get less efficient vehicles off the road. Donating them to charity would defeat the purpose, or so goes the theory.

Alot of these are actually still nice vehicles that are being traded in. I think the whole thing is entirely wasteful and not thought through. Know how many people could use a vehicle that still runs? Especially a nice Volvo?

Know why alot of people on public assistance don't work? They don't have reliable transportation. I have a million ideas just off the top of my head that could have made this program more efficient and actually make sense. I'm just at a point where I am 100% frustrated by our government at this point. xhitwallx

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Why didnt the dealership check if your vehicle qualified before pulling credit?? That doesnt make any sense and is just wrong. Seems that would be the first step.

Yup. Supposedly they are to be destroyed within 10 days after trading in. It does seem like a waste but the true test will be how big the impact is I suppose.

I think there are ALOT of misconceptions about this program. One being is that people don't realize their current vehicle needs to be paid off. If there are any liens/loans on the vehicle this program may not benefit you.

I have a Range Rover that gets a whopping 12 mpg. I owe $22k and its only worth $7k or 8k. I would LOVE to get something with better gas mileage, but guess what? Not happening.

MOrrow they supposedly did..I applied over the web...they called..I told them I had HORRIBLE credit, and did not want to come there till they had me approved I made that very clear to them ..the supposed finance mgr called me in a few days and said i was good to go and made me an appointment....thats why I am irritated with the whole thing....My car I drive now is paid off,has been since 1997...This would have helped me out good if it worked...I would have only been financing 10K with the 4500 Cash for clunker rebate plus another 2000 rebate and would have paid it off early....I planned on taking out a 7 year for the lower payments, and paying it off early in 3 to 4 years...i did it before....

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Alot of these are actually still nice vehicles that are being traded in. I think the whole thing is entirely wasteful and not thought through. Know how many people could use a vehicle that still runs? Especially a nice Volvo?

Know why alot of people on public assistance don't work? They don't have reliable transportation. I have a million ideas just off the top of my head that could have made this program more efficient and actually make sense. I'm just at a point where I am 100% frustrated by our government at this point. xhitwallx

I agree deanna...why crush the cars? I know the feds want to get them off the road because they supposedly are bad for the environment, and to conserve fuel etc....I think it is just another way the feds are trying to control what we drive, what we do in our personnel lives. I wanted to do the deal for myself not the darn environment....some of those small cars look like death traps..I was going for a efficient Asian Suv since I like them and I have a need for one with my kids...I don't think I could fit 4 kids in a smart car LMAO besides the fact it looks like a roller skate.

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The Nissan Rogues look pretty nice. I think there is a "step-up" version put out by Infiniti. I just found out last week that I have child #2 on the way. So my idea of buying a smart car may be killed for now too...:(

Regarding the wastefulness of crushing these cars, I agree wholeheartedly. It is reason #25 that these programs are horrific. As a taxpayer, you get to buy the car and then are forced to crush it, knowing that there are many out there who need transportation and/or use these vehicles to sell and collect proceeds to fund non-profit work. What a wonderful plan....the unemployed and indigent may not be able to eat, but at least they'll have 0.000001% cleaner air. Lol. :lol:

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I don't think I could fit 4 kids in a smart car LMAO besides the fact it looks like a roller skate.

A giant roller skate! So true! :lol::lol:

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I just found out last week that I have child #2 on the way. So my idea of buying a smart car may be killed for now too...:(

Congrats! :)

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The Nissan Rogues look pretty nice. I think there is a "step-up" version put out by Infiniti. I just found out last week that I have child #2 on the way. So my idea of buying a smart car may be killed for now too...:(

Regarding the wastefulness of crushing these cars, I agree wholeheartedly. It is reason #25 that these programs are horrific. As a taxpayer, you get to buy the car and then are forced to crush it, knowing that there are many out there who need transportation and/or use these vehicles to sell and collect proceeds to fund non-profit work. What a wonderful plan....the unemployed and indigent may not be able to eat, but at least they'll have 0.000001% cleaner air. Lol. :lol:

Yeah The rouges are cool, I was looking at the muranos, sentras, heck I am really digging the new Ford SHO thats comming out..I own a 1994 lol I belong to a Sho forum LOLCongrats on the new baby!!!!! :D >>>>> What a wonderful plan....the unemployed and indigent may not be able to eat, but at least they'll have 0.000001% cleaner air. Lol. :lol:

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