fattyz

debt validation request

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So I got a call from a debt collection attorney's office and they said we have this account. I said, do you represent the original creditor because ANJ Corp. does not ring a bell. She said, oh, no, this has been sold a bunch of times.

I got their letter requesting payment and DV'd them.

They sent me photocopies of the whole account with the contract, minus my signature of course. The letter they included says, "enclosed please find a copy of the 'verification' of the debt for the above referenced account.

So, I want to respond and hopefully keep them from hauling me into court. The did not provide anything I asked for in the validation letter, which comes from this site and I have used many times.

It's a department store account with XXX bank listed as the original creditor and ANJ as 'our client.'

So I need to ask them 'how can you prove that ANJ has a right to collect this debt and what establishes a fiduciary relationship between ANJ and me and etc. correct? Can anyone direct me to a sample response to this effect?

Thanks,

FattyZ

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no its in the sol and i just re read the debt validation section which seems to imply that their copies of CC statements from the OC count as debt validation. My question now is, how do I respond. The contract they sent me from the OC (Unsigned) does not seem to say anywhere the debt can be sold or assigned. In addition, what about all the other information we ask for in a DV letter? Does that go out the window if they have these photocopied statements?

I know the judge in my local court and if he sees all the statements he'll say, you never contested this and this is your address so , this is your debt BUT, since in this case it's not the OC, what establishes a fiduciary relationship between me and anyone else but the OC? He has to have a signed contract that says the debt can be sold or assigned correct? And a witness as well or at least an affidavit.

Nothing as far as I can see except an admission of guilt on my part which I won't give them but, I'm not sure if that'll be enough to stop them from getting a judgment. (I know I know, we're not even in court yet.)

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If anyone is willing I'd like your opinion before I send them this response, some of the more experienced of you have done this many times and I'd like to see if you think I'm on track with this.

Thanks, FATTYZ

Thank you for your response to my request for validation of the debt you claim I owe. In your reply, you stated you enclosed a copy of "the verification of the debt for the above referenced account." As I stated in my validation request;

This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice sent to me Dated July 24, 2009. This is the first and only communication I have ever received from your office. Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (B) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.

This is NOT a request for "verification" or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.

You have failed to provide me with the requested information without which there is no reason for you to contact me regarding the alleged account about which I have no knowledge.

Furthermore, none of the documents you provided are signed, the contract makes no mention of any agreement to pay an assignee or agreement that the alleged debt can be sold, or a letter of sale or assignment.

Therefore I find no credible evidence of any obligation on my part to pay your office or your alleged client.

Thank you very much,

Edited by fattyz
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Validation is like pornography - a Judge will not define it but he knows what it is when he sees it.

It is likely that if they obtained the information you state from the OC then it is validation for the purposes of the act. It identifies you the OC and the amount claimed which is pretty much as good as it gets.

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The easiest way to do DV is to state explicitly EXACTLY what you want in regards to information.

I would do something like bullet points even

- Name and address of the OC.

- Has the debt been purchased by another party? Show a timeline.

- Calculate principle, interest and any fees that may apply.

whatever else you may want.

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To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice sent to me Dated July 24, 2009. This is the first and only communication I have ever received from your office. Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (B) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.

This is NOT a request for "verification" or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.

Please provide me with the following:

# What the money you say I owe is for;

# Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;

# Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;

# Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;

# Identify the original creditor;

# Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account

# Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state

# Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent

At this time I will also inform you that if your offices have reported invalidated information to any of the 3 major Credit Bureau's (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion) this action might constitute fraud under both Federal and State Laws. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against you for the following:

* Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act

* Violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act

* Defamation of Character

If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.

Also during this validation period, if any action is taken which could be considered detrimental to any of my credit reports, I will consult with my legal counsel for suit. This includes any listing any information to a credit reporting repository that could be inaccurate or invalidated or verifying an account as accurate when in fact there is no provided proof that it is.

If your offices fail to respond to this validation request within 30 days from the date of your receipt, all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit file and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me immediately.

I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit.

All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by USPS. It would be advisable that you assure that your records are in order before I am forced to take legal action. This is an attempt to correct your records, any information obtained shall be used for that purpose.

Best Regards,

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It is a form letter from the internet and will be recognised as such before likely being ignored.

From what you have told us previously it appears that they have provided sufficient validation as to be compliant with the Act, and are therefore free to continue collection activity.

They may or may not cease telephone calls. You haven't phrased it correctly for it to stand as a C and D phone contact.

If you want to have them stop contacting you then send a full cease and desist and see if they issue suit or not and cross that bridge when you come to it.

As of now I do not understand where you are trying to go. Perhaps if you can tell us what it is that you hope to achieve we can look at it from a different angle? :dunno:

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Sounds like decent validation.

If you don't want to be sued I wouldn't continue any correspondence... you might just be drawing extra attention to your case.

Do a cease and desist and see what they do.

If they decide they want to sue there's no magic letter or proceedure to stop them.

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The contract they sent me from the OC (Unsigned) does not seem to say anywhere the debt can be sold or assigned.

He has to have a signed contract that says the debt can be sold or assigned correct?

Negative, everyone has a right to sell their receivables to whoever they want, they would not need your permission.

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They did not sell a receivable, they were made whole in a charge off and if you've been reading this you know the business they're in is getting people in a position where they can't pay back, which is more profitable for them than the people that can pay back.

I've been doing this for a couple years and admit I'm not clear on all the particulars. I will take admin's advice and ask them to stop contacting me but, as a matter of contract law, is it not true that some fiduciary relationship has to be established between myself and whoever says they own this obligation now?

"Think of it in these terms: Even if you suspected you might owe Joe (original creditor) some money, and Bob (collection agency) came up to you and asked for Joe's money - would you just hand over the cash? No. No one would. These might be some of the thoughts you would have:

1. How do you know that Bob is actually collecting for Joe? What legal documents does Bob have to prove that he is legally authorized to collect?

2. How much is the actual debt? What payments have already been made on the account? Where is the accounting of the debt, including all interest and fees? Are these fees and interest amounts legit?

3. Do you really owe Joe the money? Or was it actually a third party, Sam? Where is the contract showing that you made a deal with Joe and not Sam?

If you keep all the legalese out of it when thinking of legal proof, you'll have an easier time figuring out what to ask a collection agency (Bob) for to validate a debt."

What I'm trying to accomplish is getting this all cleaned up without filing bankruptcy.

Edited by fattyz
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Re:Insert Reference Number

By Fax to (XXX) XXX-XXXX and US Mail

Dear Sirs

Please be advised that I dispute the claimed debt described above.

Please provide any contract or agreement I signed and an account history showing how you arrived at the conclusion that I owe the amounts claimed and when this alleged debt was charged off.

Furthermore, you are hereby requested, as required by the Uniform Commercial Code, to provide copies of assignments and other documents showing that you or your principal is in fact the assignee of the debt(s) described above and that you are legally authorized to attempt to collect the claimed debt(s) from me.

Unless and until such proof is furnished, I do not recognize any right on your part to attempt to collect any amount from me through any means whatever, including credit reporting. I refuse to pay any debt that has not been substantiated in the manner I request and direct you to cease further communications unless and until you can provide such substantiation.

Please be advised that it is inconvenient for me to receive telephone calls from you in relation to this matter at any time on any number.

Sincerely,

FattyZ

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They did not sell a receivable, they were made whole in a charge off

They were made whole in a charge off? What does that mean? I'm not sure you understand what the term "charing off" actually is. I'm not needling you here, I'm just really curious if this is a porcess that I'm not aware of.

And if they OC sold your debt to a third party, then yes they did sell an outstanding receivable.

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I'm not the right person to explain it. If you have to do a lot of research into this as I unfortunately have, you'll read about it. It's much more complex that a bad debt expense, though that is one of the first ways you get paid by not getting paid, you get to expense it. Then I think you get to write it off, then you sell it and so on.

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Hi, the law office in question just phoned me after I sent them the letter above, which is a direct violation of FDCPA. So should I write them back and tell them I'll file suit? I know it's probably only a matter of time before they file against me, but I'm not sure since it is a long drive for them. They'll probably get one of the local guys who are always there to do it for them. Looks like they won't just go away though. But that's ok, I'll follow the steps properly this time.

FattyZ

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Why bother.

Go ahead a just file suit.

Listen its not your job to force them to follow the law.

It is however, your right to sue them if they don't.

ITS letters are a dime a dozen.

The next 'letter' they receive from you should be a summons in federal court.

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If they violated once, they likely will again. You may not want to rush off to court house today, but rather use some pateince while getting your suit together. 1 Call might be Bona Fide Error, 50 calls would be willful.

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Ok, thanks as always, but that's 2 quite completely different answers. I know how to go through the steps in this process (I might have to call once or twice) but do I have the firepower right now to file against them in federal court and if so, where do I get this info? If this is the case, there are so many attorneys sitting around, someone should be willing to take it on contingency?

FattyZ

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Ok, they sent me a summons, I have until dec 23to file my answer with counterclaims, something I have no experience with. I have a question about the summons though, it says it was served along with a copy of the complaint, but I got a summons only, no complaint, so how can I answer? Oh and one good thing, I am the only defendant, my wife's name does not appear on the summons.

Yours,

FattyZ

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Ok, they sent me a summons, I have until dec 23to file my answer with counterclaims, something I have no experience with. I have a question about the summons though, it says it was served along with a copy of the complaint, but I got a summons only, no complaint, so how can I answer? Oh and one good thing, I am the only defendant, my wife's name does not appear on the summons.

Yours,

FattyZ

I would file a motion to dismiss for improper service.

How were you served? If it was by process server he/she will swear the summons was served with the complaint so, expect your motion to get tossed.

Check your local RCP for your options for answering. Many times you can file a MTD in lieu of an answer.

You also need to arm yourself with a copy of the complaint and the affidavit of service of process. You can get these from the courthouse.

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Hi guys, I always procrastinate horribly on these because I hate doing them but, the good news is they are getting cleared up one at a time. I was served by first class mail, Via some deputy sheriff. Can not read the signature. No complaint included so do I have to go to the court and get my own complaint? How nice of me!

FattyZ

PS I'll be working on my answer tonight and tomorrow using the sticky as though I had been properly served.

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