Civil arrest warrant?

[sftrevor]

If, in the course of testimony or other evidence presented at a civil trial, it becomes clear that a particular person committed a crime, can a civil judge order an arrest warrant?? What if its not a full trial, but something a little less formal, like a discovery hearing? And going one more step down, what if that discovery hearing is not presided over by a judge, but a commissioner?

[admin]

You might want to read this:

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/wordpress/2009/06/24/can-you-go-to-jail-for-not-paying-a-debt/

[Methuss]

A judge can also issue an arrest warrant if you fail to show up for an asset hearing after you have lost and judgment has been ordered against you. If you fail to show for the summons to answer questions posed by the creditor/collector as to where your assets and income are, you can be jailed for contempt. This is called a motion to show cause hearing. You can also be jailed for contempt for refusing to answer these questions.

Now to be clear it is not being jailed for the debt itself...it is being jailed for disobeying a judicial order to show up in court or to answer questions when ordered by the judge.

So technically there is no debtor's prison, but creditors/collectors have found a loophole to jail people who they have a hard time getting cooperation on once they have a judgment against the person.

[debtorshusband]

I don't want to offend two of our moderators, but I think they have missed the point. I don't think sftrevor was asking if he can be arrested and/or sent to jail for a debt.

I think the scenario is more like, during testimony, it is claimed that someone, say sftrevor's brother, or brother-in-law, committed a crime, like fraudently applying for a credit card using sftrevor's name. He is wondering if the person hearing such testimony will issue an arrest warrant for said relative.

Having said that, unfortunately, I do not know the answer to his question.

DH

[nascar]

can a civil judge order an arrest warrant?

A judge is a judge is a judge ... civil or criminal action; a judge can issue a bench warrant.

[newryman]

Maybe then again maybe not. There are criminal statutes of limitations as well. So not so much hard to tell as impossible with the scant info you have given. But I think all the bases are covered with the various answers.

[ditaloca]

This is a common problem with id theft and relatives.

This is where pleading the 5th comes in.

The rule of thumb, don't claim id theft on relative if your not willing to allow them to face any and all legal ramifications.

[admin]

In general you can't go to jail for a debt - but it does happen, especially in cases where court orders are ignored.

[ualbany18]

I think the only person who has grasped OP's question in this thread was debtorshusband. From my understanding, OP wants to know if at civil hearing or a trial there is some evidence that a party in the action may committed some kind of criminal offense, can a civil judge issue an arrest warrant based on that information. It's actually a decent question which I would also like to know the answer to.

[newryman]

I don't want to offend two of our moderators, but I think they have missed the point. I don't think sftrevor was asking if he can be arrested and/or sent to jail for a debt.

I think the scenario is more like, during testimony, it is claimed that someone, say sftrevor's brother, or brother-in-law, committed a crime, like fraudently applying for a credit card using sftrevor's name. He is wondering if the person hearing such testimony will issue an arrest warrant for said relative.

Having said that, unfortunately, I do not know the answer to his question.

DH

Offended? You gave me a teary moment that hasn't happened since 1972 when a penalty was disallowed.

He may or may not have. It is one of those I want you to hear it how it is inside my head type questions. We just dont know for sure until he comes back to tell us

In the scenario you "hear in your head" I said what I meant and I meant what I said.

There is a Statute of Limitations on crimes as well.

Mad Judges do mad things.

I wouldn't worry so much about the potential for arrest which is a mess that can be cleaned up pretty quickly with a squeezy mop if it isn't going to result in charges.

I would be more concerned about the janitorial services needed in respect of charges.

So my answer stands. Maybe - maybe not.

Perhaps trev will come back later and tell us what his magic voices were saying inside HIS head then we can all change our minds.

[Methuss]

If it was to come out during testimony that a person committed a crime, yes, a judge (any judge) can order the arrest of the person that committed the crime. If that person is in the room, he can order the person to be taken into custody by the baliff/deputy on duty there.

In addition if the local attorney general counsel is in the room he may also order the arrest.

As for the comments left about relatives that commit ID fraud... what has been said is accurate. Do not accuse a relative of stealing your identity to open accounts unless you want them prosecuted for it. They may or may not be depending on the severity of the fraud.

Does that cover the extra bases?

[calawyer]

A Judge's authority will vary from state to state. Speaking generally, when a judge personally observes contempt of her orders in court, she may punish the contemnor summarily (often holding a hearing only to impose punishment and offer the contemnor the ability to explain). When a judge hears evidence or otherwise suspects that a crime has been committed, normally a hearing or trial will have to be conducted to establish guilt. In these cases, the judge usually referrs the matter to a District Attorney or U. S. Attorney to investigate and decide whether to bring formal charges.

[sftrevor]

Wow! I didn't expect two pages of debate <g>. I guess it was my fault though. The immediate point of the question was basically if civil judges have the same powers and authorities as criminal judges. And more specifically, if they could order that someone be taken into custody and\or have an arrest warrrant issued. I have pretty good (but circumstnatial none-the-less) evidence that the plaintiff's atorney is committing fraud, namely that they aren't actually representing the plaintiff, and is suing to pocket the money themselves. I'm sure that's a crime, but one of the differences between a civil trial and a criminal one is that the former generally doesn't allow jail as a repercussion or judgement. That being the case, I was wondering if that limitation only applies to judgments, or if that's a more blanket restriction on the powers of civil judges overall. And then there's a more technical question, I guess, in that if they did have that power theoretically, of whether there's even an administrative process in the courtroom to actually make it happen. And finally, here in SF, "lesser" hearings, like discovery hearings, aren't even heard by a judge, they're heard by a "commissioner", so there's that bit too. At the discovery hearings I've been to, there's the clerk and recorder, but I don't recall seeing any bailiff, and nothing was given under oath -- we never had to "swear to tell the truth", so there's multiple layers to he question unfortunately.

Thanks

[calawyer]

Something like this would most likely be referred to the Bar Association.

[sftrevor]

Already did. Since it's in the context of ongoing litigation, and especially since I'm one of the parties, they told me to bring it up in court. I guess they try to stay out of ongoing matters, which makes sense since it would probably be prejudicial for them to get involved prematurely.

[calawyer]

What I meant is that if the Judge felt the law firm was misrepresenting its status in Court, she would most likely refer it to the Bar Association rather than pursuing a criminal remedy.

[sftrevor]

If it was only a matter of misrepresentation, then maybe, but that begs the question -- misrepresentation for what purpose?? Like they're going to sue people -- on their own dime -- for the sheer principle of it and then give the money to the creditor who knew nothing about it in the first place out of the goodness of their hearts? Yeah right.

While being disbarred may be a first step, I can't imagine a judge who has probable cause to suspect gross felonious fraud to not invoke come kind of criminal action.

[newryman]

The standard of proof in a criminal action is much higher than in a civil action.

[sftrevor]

yes, for *conviction*, but I'm only taking about sufficient probable cause to be arrested.

[sftrevor]

Anyways, the discussion has diverged without, as far as I can tell, a definitive answer to the original question.

Assuming sufficient evidence is obvious - whatever that may need to be -- do civil judges have the same powers and authorities as criminal judges. And more specifically, can they order that someone be taken into custody and\or have an arrest warrrant issued.

One of the differences between a civil trial and a criminal one is that the former generally doesn't allow jail as a repercussion or judgement. That being the case, I was wondering if that limitation only applies to judgments, or if that's a more blanket restriction on the powers of civil judges overall.

And then there's a more technical question, I guess, in that if they did have that power theoretically, of whether there's even an administrative process in the courtroom to actually make it happen.

And finally, here in SF, "lesser" hearings, like discovery hearings, aren't even heard by a judge, they're heard by a "commissioner", so there's that bit too.

[ditaloca]

Warrant For Arrest

Obtaining Property By False Pretenses..

Maybe this would be easier to use as opposed to fraud.

Here's a sample from North Carolina

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/10404984/Warrant-For-Arrest-Obtaining-Property-By-False-Pretenses-Warrant-For-Arrest-Obtaining-Property-By-False-Pretenses---North-Carolina

Edited September 19, 2009 by ditaloca

[ditaloca]

Ok this has happened before, collection attorney says he is suing on behalf of some creditor but isn't.

However its usually the creditor who files a complaint.

You are a victim too if he received money from you under false pretense.

I did post about a similar situation awhile back, I look for it and link you to it.

Edited September 19, 2009 by ditaloca

[ditaloca]

"A"And finally, here in SF, "lesser" hearings, like discovery hearings, aren't even heard by a judge discovery hearings, aren't even heard by a judge they're heard by a "commissioner", so there's that bit too"

Some state court judges have jurisdiction over only a few certain types of cases. Some examples of this limited jurisdiction are smal claims, traffic violations, and misdemeanors called justices of the peace, magistrates, county court judges, or municipal court judges. While most of their time is spent hearing the cases mentioned above, some states allow their judges to hear more serious cases, like probate contracts, and domestic issues.

Federal and State court systems have general trial court and State court systems have general trial court judges who may preside over any case, civil or criminal, that comes to them through their criminal, that comes to them through their system.

I would think you would need to go to police station, file a complaint and request the police to investigate.

Its most likely a completely different case, and needs to be handled in a completely seperate case.