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Being financially responsible is the key.

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Collectors do everything in their power to legally collect. Debtors can do everything in their power to avoid collection. It's simply business. We're a country that governed on a set of laws, not a set of moral platitudes. I don't really care what you think of me or any other debtor here. If you don't like the game, then fight to have the laws changed.

While I don't doubt that theirs a whole lot of deadbeat debtors out there, the holier-than-thou attitude that you ooze here is one that I've encountered far too often from other collectors. There is absolutely no reason for you to continue this thread other than to poke people in the ribs with your self-righteousness. Pass judgment on others if you will, but perhaps you might want to examine why you post here and whether your aims are truly as noble as the self-portrait that you paint.

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re: "deadbeat debtors" mentioned above...

I commented earlier about my husband who is not a scumbag and didn't do well as a collector because he is too nice. He's just a regular person like the people he was assigned to call up and collect from.

But did you guys know that, as nice as he is and considering that he did a crappy job as a collector due to that, because he understood circumstances and didn't get joy out of prying money from anyone's hands (despite the fact that he was working that crap job to pay his own bills painstakingly and faithfully)...

He became aware, during that job, of the existence of "professional debtors" I'm not going to debate the definition of that nor apologize if that label might be used to describe anyone here... but unless you're unreasonable, you'll know that there are, indeed, people who get their jollies out of rooking anyone and any entity out of every last dollar they can run away with. The things they would do to get out of paying a dollar toward anything and the joy they got out of it was apparent.

I just wanted to say that "deadbeat debtors" do exist, to that extreme.

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Nice story about the lady Albany. At what point will you (or the deciding attorney) decide to end her servitude. The way you talk, you never will. Instead you will keep adding to the balance and the only thing that will release that lady is probably death (of course, then some collector will call the daughter to see if they can cajole her to pay (or even take her to court even though the daughter is not responsible for the debt)). Someone with morals would draw a line in the sand and say enough, here the release of judgment. Have a good day. Instead, you already talk about bleeding her for everything she has while saying she is a roll model.

As I said before, personal responsibility goes both ways too. Why is it too much for us to ask for those calling or suing us to prove that we owe the debt and whether the figure you come up with is the real figure. If the bank/collector has kept reasonable records of assignment, sale of debt, balance, and the contract, then this should not be an issue.

However, here in Minnesota, most collectors suing will not even put up their own money in a court case, using a process that forces the defendant to pay the court costs. Is it legal, yes. Is it moral, you decide. However, I would expect a collector to put their money where their mouth is. If they think they will win, then why not put of the court cost money. If the collectors can win, why don't they use a real process server such as a sheriff rather than the companies like in NY where they falsify documents. I notice that none of the collectors or their lawyers have filed suit against the company (and that would make news if they did). Why is that?

Why do most of the companies stop legal efforts on any defendant who puts up somewhat of a fight? Simply put, most of the companies suing today cannot prove that you actually owe the debt. That is what those "malicious defenses" are about. If I am being drug through a legal process to be held "responsible" for my actions, then the banks should be responsible for making sure they have the records that prove that I am responsible. That is all most of us on this board ask.

Finally, yes there are professional debtors and some of them probably post here. However, they really are in the minority and most people are honest, hardworking people who are willing to honor their word. You as a collector however have been taught not to believe that and to believe that everyone you call is a deadbeat. We here do not believe that.

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Well, I guess you weren't talking to me. My husband knew full well that most people are regular people in tight circumstances they'd rather not be in, but there are a significant percentage who are "professional debtors." I guess it's because he and I are smart, but he wasn't trained into thinking anything. I don't know if they actually try to brainwash their collectors into believing anything. They just give them a job to do and bogus financial incentives (bogus because they usually renege by some technicality and laugh about it) and let the collectors go at it.

Sorry, I just have to temper some of that pervasive belief out there that collectors are all evil, amoral, and delusional. Many of them are just making calls and trying to get a job done. Really, they are, after all, just trying to get bills that are due, paid.

Think about how you'd feel if debtors walked out on you (people you lent money to, a tenant, maybe.)

Just saying come on, people - it's all business!

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I'm not so sure what's wrong with paying $50 a month for life for something that is owed. I've eaten some pretty big bills, gotten killed in some transactions that I shouldn't have made, and made plain-old financial mistakes and so have people I have known. We've had to pay, either all at once or over time. With interest, and sometimes with court costs when I was too naive to know that I should settle it before it got that far. When you sign up for private school you have to pay the bill. Seriously, I don't know why anyone would be released from that. $50 a month sounds like not much, at least from the school's end. Are you saying you think it is added to, via interest?

I also don't see anything wrong with having a debtor pay court costs, should it turn out that they owe the money. Wouldn't you want that, if you were a business owner? Wouldn't it be an unjust burden for you to have to put forth money that might really hamper your business, just to try to collect money that is owed to you?

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...As I have stated in the past, I took a calculated risk and put about 90% of my net worth into an investment earlier in the summer and it came through for me big time, made about 30 times my money back. So when the student loans come knocking I will have saved up enough money to pay off about 70%immediately...

Let me guess...you took $10' date='000 and bought a package of defaulted (and probably SOL debts) with a face value of $10,000,000 and then coerced the debtor into paying you $300,000 because they were "morally responsible for the debt". Legal? Yes, unfortuneatly. Ethical? Depends on you sense of right and wrong. To me, that somehow smacks of rolling a drunk. [/quote']

No. If people are really that interested I do not have a problem sharing.

I'll bite. Since you're open to sharing, just how did you earn 12,000% annualized on one investment this summer?!

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If the collectors can win, why don't they use a real process server such as a sheriff rather than the companies like in NY where they falsify documents. I notice that none of the collectors or their lawyers have filed suit against the company (and that would make news if they did). Why is that?

Because they are all in jail and the AG seized every single asset the company had.

Edited by ualbany18

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I'll bite. Since you're open to sharing, just how did you earn 12,000% annualized on one investment this summer?!

I was a financial backer to a friend of mine in a series of poker tournaments in Atlantic City and Vegas and with that money he earned about 210k from the end of May to July which I got a certain percentage of.

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Nice story about the lady Albany. At what point will you (or the deciding attorney) decide to end her servitude.

Would paying back just the principle be acceptable to you? Because that would take another 10 years. If she had the principle all paid and wanted to offer 10-20 cents on the dollar for the 13 years worth of compounded interest that would seem reasonable.

However, here in Minnesota, most collectors suing will not even put up their own money in a court case, using a process that forces the defendant to pay the court costs. Is it legal, yes. Is it moral, you decide.

Definitely fair and moral. Why should a bank or any other creditor be forced to absorb costs because a party they were doing business with did not pay a bill?

Finally, yes there are professional debtors and some of them probably post here. However, they really are in the minority and most people are honest, hardworking people who are willing to honor their word. You as a collector however have been taught not to believe that and to believe that everyone you call is a deadbeat. We here do not believe that.

Think you are being a little naive here. There are a bunch more of them thenk you'd think. It is impossible to quantify any data however.

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If the daughter got a quality private education and now cares that her mom is in debt past her eyeballs, why doesn't she make some money, working two jobs if necessary, and help mom pay off the debt? Think about it: If mom is only paying $50 per month, any working able-bodied adult could throw in AT LEAST an additional $50 per month to double mom's payment and pay it off faster. Probably much more than that, in reality.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for the private school debt. An attorney once told me (it was a wake-up call for me at the time but it was the truth), "Private school is for those who can afford it." Other people pay their bill, why shouldn't that parent? Her daughter is grown and morally speaking, should help her mom.

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At the time I posted this, UAlbany was approaching 300 posts, with his reputation getting less bad. By the time anyone actually reads this post, he may well be over 300 posts. At this rate, he will probably get to 500 posts without getting banned. When he first started posting, I was sure he would either be banned or would whimper off after a few days.

In some cases, UAlbany is actually helpful. Even MORE amazing, he sometimes shows compassion for folks who are getting reamed by CAs or JBDs.

Leave the Dark Side, UAlbany. See the light. At some point you will see how banks all over the world worked together to drive the entire planet into debt peonage. Conspiracy theories are not needed. Banks saw that overlending was good for the short term profits, so they did so. Our creditors have bought politicians, they have over a trillion in TARP aid, they have tons of lawyers and bottom feeders. We have each other, and a few consumer rights advocates and lawyers.

Any business model that rests on people, and nations, getting so far into debt they can never get out is unsustainable. At some point everyrthing comes crashing down. All we are trying to do is survive the wreckage.

Also, we can learn the best way to avoid getting into the same mess again!

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In some cases, UAlbany is actually helpful. Even MORE amazing, he sometimes shows compassion for folks who are getting reamed by CAs or JBDs.

Thanks for this Bob, like I said earlier - I just believe in justice and being treated fairly. If CA's or JDB's are crossing the line they should most definitely be called out on it. Conversely, if somoene owes money and do not have legitimate defenses as to why they do not - they should get it paid off or at the very least let the creditor have their judgment.

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I've been gone awhile, but I just wanted to add that I think this is a good conversation to be having...in a respectable fashion, which it seems it has here.

I think what's missing from the conversation is the need for financial literacy in this country.

I racked up debt and probably looked about as irresponsible as I could as a young 20 something. My irresponsibility was really financial illiteracy. Then I found this site. My reformation was part determination to change my own behavior and part obtaining the right information to be able to do that and also to understand my rights under the law.

There aren't alot of sites that I claim had the impact on my life that CIC has.

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Yes, THAT is the most important thing about this site. Financial literacy. I think that if the American public were wiser about finances, the country would be in better shape. The predators wouldn't have as much power, and there would be a lot less debt. Perhaps we wouldn't be on the verge of a depression.

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I was ordering a pizza at the time of the photo. My wife gets a kick out of how seriously I take some things...

Pizza is serious business.

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Well, now I don't dislike you as much as I did before, heh heh... LOL, just kidding, sort of. I've had my irritated moments with you but everyone gets irritated with me, so we're even.

That's funny that it looks like a serious financial phone call when really it's just pizza.

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