lilq

Trueq I sent a letter to elect Arbitration

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After thinking on my husband's Capital One lawsuit, I decided the way to go was arbitration. I did this for several reasons. Number one, even though the Judge is fair, my husband would have to do all the talking and I'm not sure he would be able to go before the judge and say what needs to be said. He's not as obnoxious as I am.

Number 2, I want to hurt Capital One and the attorney and so, the longer I draw this out, the less money the attorney gets and the more work he has to do.

Number 3 I bet this has never been attempted in this court before. So it's just good times. I put a thread up a couple weeks ago after we went to our first appearance and denied and the lawyer was so mad. And I put in the thread how I watched people in the hall on disability and unemployment just willingly sign without reading whatever he handed to them. He was furious he had to wait to talk to the judge and we denied. I just wish I could see his face when he gets the letter I sent.

Number 4 Arbitration puts us in a better postion to settle if we choose to do so.

I sent a letter to the attorney and the court. It was funny when I called the circuit clerk to ask who I should send the letter to, the judge or the court. She wanted to know what the letter was about. I told her we were electing arbitration. She acted disoriented as if she'd never heard of such a thing and she admitted she didn't know how this would work. She said it might require a hearing. She honestly didn't know. But she told me to address it to the judge and he would tell them to file it.

Trueq. I don't know what to expect from here. Will we hear from the judge? Will the attorney try to object to it? If he does, what's our recourse? Will there have to be a hearing about this? Our next court date is Nov. 3 (actual trial) I think. So what can I expect from this point on?

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This issue (defendant credit card debtor choosing arbitration) is disorienting for the court and the court staff!

Several things could happen here: (REMEMBER YOU JUST WAIVED CAP1'S ACCESS & RIGHT TO THIS COURT!)

1.) Opposing counsel will acknowledge the arbitration exercise and ask the court to stay the case. (If that's the case, ask for dismissal in return.) This is important, because if judge is inclined to "stay", DEMAND CAP1 BE ORDERED TO INITIATE ARBITRATION!.

2.) This will be addressed at your next court date. Be sure to push dismissal of case by reading contract language where Cap1 agreed to waive its right this court. (Pound it over and over again while debt lawyer squirm's. you cannot possibly do this enough!) Again, if "stay" is demanded, demand Cap1 initiates. If stay is ordered, make sure court stays "pending outcome of arbitration forum in contract". That makes stay permanent until debt lawyer navigates the arbitration box!!!! (Don't talk about NAF or AAA being defunct. Opposing counsel may not know this! If they realize they have to pay all JAMS fees, they may be more adamant in opposition to arbitration!)

3.) Opposing counsel (and court) will ignore your letter. In this case, you need to bring a motion to compel arbitration. Call court clerk to get date and time for motion. Make motion simple. (do this by 10/15 if you have not received a response from opposing counsel or court!)

It will usually fall into 1 of those 3 categories.

ITS IMPORTANT TO GET COURT TO ORDER CAP1 TO INITIATE ARBITRATION!!!!!!

1.) Because under JAMS rules Cap1 pays all JAMS fees!

2.) If they fail to do it, its a debt collection violation or Deceptive Trade Practice if Cap1 does anything in way of collection THAT IS NOT INITIATION OF ARBITRATION. (A JDB debt lawyer in my case refused to initiate arbitration as court ordered, JDB lawyer pretended it had a right to litigate, sent me litigation discovery, filed for SJ with court while the case was stayed, judge handed them their posterior! I filed suit against debt lawyers! The fur is flying now! all in my favor! Arbitration still has not started in these 2 cases after 1 year.)

You just dropped a nuclear bomb on their case.

If for some reason, the court says you have to initiate arbitration, take your time!!!

When pressed to initiate, file with AAA...wait for rejection. Copy opposing counsel on rejection.

Then file with NAF....wait for rejection. copy opposing counsel on rejection.

That alone should burn 12 months!

Then file with JAMS, BUT FILE A HUGE COMPLAINT AGAINST CAP1!!!!!!

Do this for 2 reasons:

1.) In JAMS, you pay $250 of initial $400 case management fee. Cap1 has to pay $150 to advance your claim against them! In my experience they DON'T want to do this! (Failure of Cap1 to cough up the $150 stalls the case.) (You also can get a fee waiver under JAMS under your states rules. California residents get fee waiver if under 300% FPL, which is a large section of population.)

2.) Cap1 then has to counterclaim their smaller claim in arbitration! Before that happens, you will be contacted by a "litigation spe******t" that works directly for Cap1 to try and resolve the issue! This person is above puke debt lawyer you see today. (If your claim is ten times their's and it has merit, banks don't want to fight.) I have an offer on table today as I write this. If Cap1 takes it, I will fall over from a heart attack!

Remember:

Contrary to what you heard:

1.) Arbitration is not fast.

2.) Arbitration is not cheap. (this is why under JAMS rules...the credit card bank pays all JAMS fees is important!)

3.) Arbitration is not easy. A good consumer can hassle about arbitrator selection, demand a 3 arbitrator panel, haggle about discovery rules, which set of JAMS rules be applied, hearing location, the interpretation of the arbitration clause itself, etc, etc, etc, This makes it a long drawn out process for Cap1 while a big claim hangs over them and they burn attorney time. They are a bank. They want to make money. Burning $50,000 in attorneys and arbitration fees for a $10,000 credit card claim is NOT something they want to do!

All in all, this is why Cap1 will be stripping out arbitration in the future!

Edited by trueq

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This whole arbitration stuff is confusing to me. Everywhere I read on the net it says to stay away from it. Everything is in legalese and obvious it was written so could end up in endless litigation. By opting for arbitration you infact give up your consumer rights with a court, correct? Is there ever a time where cap1 would excercise arbitration on the consumer? Or, is it purely the consumer opting for it?

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I'll be sure to file a motion to compel by the 15th. After that, baby steps I guess. I'm bookmarking this so I have it all right in front of me. I'm sure I will have questions, but this is gonna be GOOOOOD!

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This whole arbitration stuff is confusing to me. Everywhere I read on the net it says to stay away from it. Everything is in legalese and obvious it was written so could end up in endless litigation. By opting for arbitration you infact give up your consumer rights with a court, correct? Is there ever a time where cap1 would excercise arbitration on the consumer? Or, is it purely the consumer opting for it?

From what I understand from trueq, it used to be a way for Credit Card companies to railroad consumers. But since the 2 arbitration boards are now defunct, and only JAMS is in existance, they are more consumer friendly. So it's a big pain in the butt for CC companies. It does seem confusing but I like the idea of drawing a small claim (and I do mean small) out for years.

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trueq you state both that cap1 pays all JAMS fees then state consumer pays the first $250 of the $400 JAMS fee, confused..

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That stuff you read on the internet about consumer credit card arbitration being a complete screw and you should do everything to escape it...

IS TRUE! SIX MONTHS AGO!

EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED! I REPEAT*****EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED!************

READ THIS:

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297976

AND THIS:

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1029691#post1029691

AND THIS:

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297619

Search google "NAF" and MN AG. The scam arbitration players have been taken out of business!

The MN AG turned everything on its head!!!!

Even NCLC and consumer lawyers have been slow to embrace this, but my lawyer and at least 4 other consumer lawyers I've talked to say this can be a brilliant strategy to either destroy or severely slow down credit card litigation.

You don't have to believe me...Take Bank of America's word for it...THEY'VE STRIPPED ARBITRATION OUT OF THEIR CARDHOLDER AGREEMENTS GOING FORWARD (WHICH DOES NOT ALTER PAST DEFAULTED AGREEMENTS).

Why?

Its not because they have an overwhelming sudden urge for consumer rights.

ITS BECAUSE BIG BANKS ARE STARTING TO REALIZE THEY CAN NOT SCREW CONSUMERS WITH ARBITRATION ANYMORE!

ITS THE OPPOSITE! Its a huge tool for consumers now!

Edited by trueq

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Boy MN doesn't screw around with these people, I copied the case where they took away MCM's licenses in case I might need it.

Can one answer a summons complaint with a blurb about demanding arbitration?

trueq I'm not doubting you, it's just a little confusing. Went to the JAMS sight and they want $400 up front unless I skipped some info somewhere. Also one doesn't have to report to one of their offices do they? Closest one for this area is 600 mi away.

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Standard JAMS initial case managment fee is $400!

1.) Under JAMS rules, if credit card bank (cap1) initiates ARBITRATION they pay $400 AND ALL JAMS ARBITRATION FEES THEREAFTER. So run the bill!

2.) Under JAMS rules, if consumer initiates, consumer pays $250. That's it! Credit Card is obligated for the other $150 which equals $400. CREDIT CARD PAYS ALL JAMS ARBITRATION FEES AFTER THAT! So run the bill!

*However, the $250 JAMS fee is waived in California if you are 300% under FPL, which includes a lot of people. I get fee waiver under my statue in WI, so $250 can be waived if you meet "indigency" requirements of your state, which can be faily liberal!

Read JAMS rules, its all there!

Many credit card contracts also provide consumers an "advance" of $250-$500 from bank for this fee upon written request. So read the cardholder agreement.

Chase is my favorite. You can demand $500 from them for arbitration under contract. Put $250 toward JAMS, pocket the other $250. If they don't do it, Chase is in breach.

OR MY FAVORITE

Demand $500 from Chase, get fee waiver from JAMS, pocket the whole $500!

Edited by trueq

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You can do it in answer.

I like to send separate demand by letter.

600 miles away does not matter. Contract calls for hearing in your federal judicial district.

I live in WI and selected San Francisco arbitrators in Vegas.

Who pays these JAMS fees and expenses?

The bank!

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I live in WI and selected San Francisco arbitrators in Vegas.

Who pays these JAMS fees and expenses?

The bank!

Too funny:lol:

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Lilq & Trueq -------lilq , please post what happens , I also have Cap1 ( 4 cases ) I also want to bail out soon and go with Arbitration , my game plan is this

1 . I INITIATE ARBITRATION so I can be the one picking location .

2. I apply for fee waiver with JAMS ( I do like the idea of applying to AAA and NAF to chew up a lot of time )

3 . I apply for waiver with Cap1

4 . I demand the most drawn out Arbitration rules

5 . I put in a large claim against Cap1

6 . I choose Vegas as my location and get a good vacation .

Trueq does that look okay ? If they INITIATE ARBITRATION I do not get my choice , correct ?

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What would a person claim for if is actually their debt and they want to work out a payment arrangement but cap1 won't talk to them or their attorneys?

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You would apply for fee waiver with JAMS. (You could ask Capital One to fund the $250, but they will probably tell you to stick it.)

When thinking about large claims against Cap1, read this:

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297619&page=4

(post #31 & #34 and post #37 is brilliant too!)

If time wasting is your game, here's more ideas:

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297310&highlight=Rubin&page=2

(post #11 in this thread is beyond outstanding!)

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speaking in hypotheticals, I have same situation.

Exercise arbitration anyway. Get case stayed in court.

You've derailed their court case.

Then you have real leverage to negotiate. (Meaning I'd tell them if they give you a $1000 check, you will agree to dismissal with prejudice, and agree not to file a huge arbitration claim against them and give them a mutual relase of all claims.)

If they don't want to negotiate, if they want to fight,(or if you want ot fight) it will make them hurt, because they have to pay all arbitration fees and they have to follow the JAMS rules which are somewhat skewed in favor of the consumer. (in my opinion) On top of that, you can "judge shop" for a pro consumer arbitrator!

If you haven't noticed....I LIVE TO FIGHT!

Its good sport.

Edited by trueq

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"Pursuant to section/page XXXX of the enclosed Cap1 agreement, I/we hereby ELECT arbitration to resolve all disputes between us.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Trueq , thanks , I have that letter printed up and ready to go , my MOTION TO COMPEL AGREEMENT AND AMENDMENTS is filed and I have requested a Hearing on my motion , and requested my Hearing be before the 10 / 24 date they have their hearing for their SJ .

I am sure I am cutting it close but the fact they refuse to furnish the proper agreement should stop the SJ because they are denying my Arbitration rights . The JAMS rules state I need my Agreement with the Arbitration Clause . They have furnished a 2005 Agreement and they claim we agreed to the Agreement in 2003 .

I went over this at the last Hearing , the Judge agreed that they do change the Agreements from time to time , The Judge gave them 20 days , then within their 20 days they sent another Agreement , but it was again a 2005 Agreement , so I filed the MOTION TO COMPEL AGREEMENT AND AMENDMENTS

Waiting for hearing .

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you need to call court clerk and schedule it! Then serve notice of it to other side.

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On the 250 fee, in reading cap1's agreement it states that if the consumer is the initiator then the consumer agrees to pay the 250, you can still request that cap1 pays it?

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trueq:

3.) Opposing counsel (and court) will ignore your letter. In this case, you need to bring a motion to compel arbitration. Call court clerk to get date and time for motion. Make motion simple. (do this by 10/15 if you have not received a response from opposing counsel or court!)

You must call the clerks for date and time of motion? It can't be typed out and delivered to them for filing? Sorry if dumb question, everything I 've done on my wifes case for instance I've just typed out and taken to the clerk and they filed it.

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your motions will not get heard unless you schedule a date and time with court clerk and then SERVE NOTICE OF THE DATE AND TIME OF MOTION TO OTHER SIDE!

I suspect a cap1 amendment gives you right to ask for the $250, but this unsigned generic crap I got from one JDB for Cap1 says it does, but Cap1 denies its an amendment from them. Its a partial amendment, but was provided to me with a debt validation with a cap1 account.

It does not identify Cap1 anywhere on the page.

This unsigned crap is good enough to stick it to debtors in most cases, but when a bank screams the unsigned crap is not their's...even though they provided it via their agent...then its gospel.

I stuck to fee waiver on Cap1 in JAMS.

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You can do it in answer.

I like to send separate demand by letter.

600 miles away does not matter. Contract calls for hearing in your federal judicial district.

I live in WI and selected San Francisco arbitrators in Vegas.

Who pays these JAMS fees and expenses?

The bank!

LOL, I just love trueq. :lol:

If I had a fraction of the brains that he has, I would have been out of debt a long time ago. Trueq, you seriously need to become a consumer lawyer. I'd pay top dollar for your services. :mrgreen:

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I'd probably do it.

I'm too entrenched in the community in terms of business ownership, politics, church and civic groups to possibly take 2-3 years to physically attend law school.

If you like the arbitration strategy....wait to you get my update on all the lawsuits I filed on debt collectors violating my rights!!!! (some of them want to fight...that is good...very good!)

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If I could attend law school online...
You can, there are several in California. California is the only state that recognizes an online law degree.

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Our bar in WI is very territorial. We have 2 law schools in the state and graduation exempts the bar exam (diploma priviledge).

My bar appears NOT to accept such a thing. If I were to become a member of CA bar, there are methods, albeit difficult, to become member of WI bar as a member of CA bar

Edited by trueq

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