ladybug412

Letter from JAMS. Is this the usual response????

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I just called JAMS and she's telling me that I don't qualify for the Minimum Standards because I chose to take the case out of court and go to arbitration. She's saying that the only way to qualify for the consumer protection is if I'm forced to go to arbitration by Cap1. She said I need to contact Cap1 and ask them to pay the fees.

Did you mean to say you don't qualify for the fee waiver (not the min standards)? :)

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It's the JAMS Policy on Consumer Arbitrations Pursuant to Pre-Dispute Clauses Minimum Standards of Procedural Fairness that they are saying does not apply because I wasn't forced into arbitration but chose to arbitrate. Cap1 attorneys would not stop trying to push litigation so I did a motion to compel and initiated arbitration myself.

I've read the Consumer Minimum Standards over again and see nothing at all that says you don't qualify for it if you choose and initiate arbitration. The footnote at the end gives a concise description of when the standards are applicable and when they do not apply and no where does it say anything about having to be forced into arbitration to qualify for this protection as a consumer.

This is for a cc card dispute for just under $3000 and she did mention something about small claims court. I told her it wasn't in small claims court, it was in district court. Besides I filed for $50,000 in damages for debt collection violations when I filed the Demand for Arbitration.

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It's the JAMS Policy on Consumer Arbitrations Pursuant to Pre-Dispute Clauses Minimum Standards of Procedural Fairness that they are saying does not apply because I wasn't forced into arbitration but chose to arbitrate. Cap1 attorneys would not stop trying to push litigation so I did a motion to compel and initiated arbitration myself.

I've read the Consumer Minimum Standards over again and see nothing at all that says you don't qualify for it if you choose and initiate arbitration. The footnote at the end gives a concise description of when the standards are applicable and when they do not apply and no where does it say anything about having to be forced into arbitration to qualify for this protection as a consumer.

This is for a cc card dispute for just under $3000 and she did mention something about small claims court. I told her it wasn't in small claims court, it was in district court. Besides I filed for $50,000 in damages for debt collection violations when I filed the Demand for Arbitration.

I agree....I read it, too, and there is nothing in there regarding this. Hopefully trueq or MG05 can chime in? Something doesn't sound right...:confused:

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I have no clue about this either, it in no way states that the consumer has to be forced into arbitration.

It's actually there to protect the consumer against a corperation. It even list how you are considered a consumer and when consumer standards apply.

Which is basically just that you had zero say in the arbitration agreement...you used it for household goods etc etc..

You need the consumer min standards...who cares about the payment of 400 dollars most can fee waiver that out.

However, the cost of arbitration to the company is important. It's designed to actually cost you as much as it would if you went to court over these issues. She is trying to make up a rule that isn't spelled out in their consumer min standards. Doesn't mean you wouldnt get them she is just telling you she won't make a decission in your favour and leaving that up to the Administrators.

Hmm, sounds like preasure is being exerted some how on JAMS not enforcing consumer min standards because they aren't being paid in the end.

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JAMS Policy on Consumer Arbitrations Pursuant to Pre-Dispute Clauses

Minimum Standards of Procedural Fairness

Effective July 15, 2009

JAMS will administer arbitrations pursuant to mandatory pre-dispute arbitration clauses between companies and consumers1 only if the contract arbitration clause and specified applicable rules comply with the following minimum standards of fairness.

These minimum standards for arbitration procedures are:

The arbitration agreement must be reciprocally binding on all parties such that: A) if a consumer is required to arbitrate his or her claims or all claims of a certain type, the company is so bound; and, B) no party shall be precluded from seeking remedies in small claims court for disputes or claims within the scope of its jurisdiction.

The consumer must be given notice of the arbitration clause. Its existence, terms, conditions and implications must be clear.

Remedies that would otherwise be available to the consumer under applicable federal, state or local laws must remain available under the arbitration clause, unless the

consumer retains the right to pursue the unavailable remedies in court.

The arbitrator(s) must be neutral and the consumer must have a reasonable opportunity to participate in the process of choosing the arbitrator(s).

The consumer must have a right to an in-person hearing in his or her hometown area.

The clause or procedures must not discourage the use of counsel.

With respect to the cost of the arbitration, when a consumer initiates arbitration against the company, the only fee required to be paid by the consumer is $250, which is approximately equivalent to current Court filing fees. All other costs must be borne by the company including any remaining JAMS Case Management Fee and all professional fees for the arbitrator's services. When the company is the claiming party initiating an arbitration against the consumer, the company will be required to pay all costs associated with the arbitration.

In California, the arbitration provision may not require the consumer to pay the fees and costs incurred by the opposing party if the consumer does not prevail.

The arbitration provision must allow for the discovery or exchange of non-privileged information relevant to the dispute.

An Arbitrator's Award will consist of a written statement stating the disposition of each claim. The award will also provide a concise written statement of the essential findings and conclusions on which the award is based.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 These standards are applicable where a company systematically places an arbitration clause in its agreements with individual consumers and there is minimal, if any, negotiation between the parties as to the procedures or other terms of the arbitration clause. A consumer is defined as an individual who seeks or acquires any goods or services, primarily for personal family or household purposes, including the credit transactions associated with such purchases, or personal banking transactions. These standards do not apply to the use of arbitration in resolving disputes arising from commercial transactions between a lender and commercial borrowers or a company and commercial customers, other financial services such as investment transactions, real estate transactions, or to matters involving underinsured motorists. Nor do they apply if the agreement to arbitrate was negotiated by the individual consumer and the company.

In Fact the bolded area even states you are allowed to initiate.

Small Claims does not apply considering they werent in small claims and have not proceeded in small claims.

I suggest you write down exactly what she stated "as far as you can remember" Then that and the following min consumer requirements as quoted by JAMS. If she merely stated that they are the ones who need to force you into arbitration. The point out rule number 7 and how it infact states that you are allowed to initiate and the cost their-in.

I would email this to her and then ask her for a written detailed explaination as to why JAMS is not honoring their min consumer standards requirements. State you will need this information to proceede and would llike it for your records for later use.

I am not sure why? I don't see how litigation going to arbitration changes anything. You need her to explain to you in detail in writing why exactly the consumer min standards aren't being used.

I would also check out AAA as an alternative and submitt your claim thier as well if the JAMS does not end well.

Explore all your options but first try to get that case manager to get to change her mind or atleast explain it in writting for you. If they are indeed breaking their own rules then report them and be done with it.

Hopefully, trueq and Mg05 will chime in. I am interested in hearing what they have to say as well.

Edited by Bradly1

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AAA Review of Consumer Clauses

The American Arbitration Association applies the Supplementary Procedures for Consumer-Related

Disputes to arbitration clauses in agreements between individual consumers and businesses where the

business has a standardized, systematic application of arbitration clauses with customers and where the

terms and conditions of the purchase of standardized, consumable goods or services are non-negotiable or

primarily non-negotiable in most or all of its terms, conditions, features, or choices. The product or

service must be for personal or household use. The AAA will have the discretion to apply or not to apply

the Supplementary Procedures and the parties will be able to bring any disputes concerning the

application or non-application to the attention of the arbitrator. Consumers are not prohibited from

seeking relief in a small claims court for disputes or claims within the scope of its jurisdiction, even in

consumer arbitration cases filed by the business.

IMPORTANT!

TO CONSUMERS

If you have a dispute with a business, your agreement may have an arbitration clause naming the

American Arbitration Association (AAA) to provide arbitration services. The AAA will only administer

your dispute if the arbitration clause meets certain fairness standards that are contained in the AAA's

Consumer Due Process Protocol.

If your claim is for $75,000 or less in actual damages and the arbitration clause in your contract does not

substantially comply with the standards contained in the Protocol, we will give the company an

opportunity to comply and meet those standards at the time you file your claim. In order to determine if

the arbitration agreement substantially and materially complies with the due process standards of the

Consumer Due Process Protocol, the AAA reviews the parties' arbitration clause only, and not the

entire contract. The AAA's review of the arbitration clause is only an administrative review to determine

whether the clause complies with the AAA's minimum due process standards in consumer arbitrations.

However, the AAA's review is not an opinion on whether the arbitration agreement, the contract, or any

part of the contract is legally enforceable. If a party wishes to raise issues concerning the legal

enforceability of the arbitration agreement, the contract or any portion of the contract, those issues may be

presented to the arbitrator for a determination.

If the AAA has determined that the arbitration clause does not comply with the standards contained in the

Protocol, and the business does not comply, the AAA will not handle your claim. However, you may

pursue whatever other remedies you choose in another forum, and you will not be charged any AAA

fees or expenses. If your claim is under $75,000 and does go to arbitration, your costs will be capped at

either $125 or $375, depending on the amount of your actual damages claimed. In addition, under the

AAA's procedures, you may claim any amount of special damages such as attorney's fees or punitive

damages, without an increase in fees.

Small Claims Court Option: Instead of going to arbitration, you may pursue your claim in your local

small claims court, if it meets that court's jurisdictional limits. If you wish to have a small claims court

hear your claim, you should contact them directly.

TO BUSINESSES

In order for you to name the AAA as the dispute resolution provider in your agreements with consumers,

your arbitration clause must substantially comply with the Principles of the Consumer Due Process

AAA ONLINE LIBRARY 2

Protocol of fairness and due process in predispute arbitration. If you have an agreement with an

arbitration clause that names the AAA, please contact us through the AAA office nearest you.

The staff in our offices can also give you information about the AAA consumer ADR processes.

If a case is filed against your business and your arbitration clause contains provisions that are not

acceptable under the Consumer Due Process Protocol, you will be given an opportunity to comply within

a specific period of time. If you do not revise your arbitration agreement to comply with the

Consumer Due Process Protocol, we will return the filing information to the consumer with

instructions to pursue other remedies and we will refuse to administer any other cases until your

arbitration agreement is in compliance. Please see the Notice to Consumers and Businesses.

In order to determine if the arbitration agreement substantially and materially complies with the due

process standards of the Consumer Due Process Protocol, the AAA reviews the parties' arbitration

clause only, and not the entire contract. The AAA's review of the arbitration clause is only an

administrative review to determine whether the clause complies with the AAA's minimum due process

standards in consumer arbitrations. However, the AAA's review is not an opinion on whether the

arbitration agreement, the contract, or any part of the contract is legally enforceable. If a party wishes to

raise issues concerning the legal enforceability of the arbitration agreement, the contract or any portion of

the contract, those issues may be presented to the arbitrator for a determination.

For all consumer cases with claims under $75,000, the business is responsible for all AAA fees and

Arbitrator compensation in excess of the consumer capped fee amounts.

This doesn't state pre-dispute, which is what she might be pointing out but even then...who knows I have no clue what that lady is talking about.

AAA merely states dispute and may be the way to go if JAMS doesn't own up and accept Min standards. They only mention pre-dispute when it comes to the buisness but does not imply that it has to be a pre-dispute.

If you have a motion to compel arbitration then its possible your action would be heard and theirs may be declined depending on the case maanager.

Edited by Bradly1

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It's the JAMS Policy on Consumer Arbitrations Pursuant to Pre-Dispute Clauses Minimum Standards of Procedural Fairness that they are saying does not apply because I wasn't forced into arbitration but chose to arbitrate. Cap1 attorneys would not stop trying to push litigation so I did a motion to compel and initiated arbitration myself.

I've read the Consumer Minimum Standards over again and see nothing at all that says you don't qualify for it if you choose and initiate arbitration. The footnote at the end gives a concise description of when the standards are applicable and when they do not apply and no where does it say anything about having to be forced into arbitration to qualify for this protection as a consumer.

This is for a cc card dispute for just under $3000 and she did mention something about small claims court. I told her it wasn't in small claims court, it was in district court. Besides I filed for $50,000 in damages for debt collection violations when I filed the Demand for Arbitration.

I have letters from their attourney stating I was required to initiate persuant to the CC agreement. They actually said I at this time have a right to arbitration however they would need me to Initiate arbitration to inact the arbitration agreement. That is basically, Crap One forcing me to Initiate arbitration before they would accept the fact that arbitration was elected. May make a strong point in Crap One forcing you into arbitration by initiation.

If you have letters like that then send it to JAMS along with the above JAMS rules post. State they would not agree to stop litigation until I initiated and thus they did force me to initiate arbitration.

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Demand for Arbitration Based on Pre-Dispute Provision If you wish to proceed with an arbitration by executing and serving a Demand for Arbitration on the appropriate party, please submit the following items to JAMS:

A. Two (2) copies of the Demand for Arbitration

B. Proof of service of the Demand on the appropriate party E.g., copy of certified mail receipt signed by recipient or sworn statement of service by a non-party over 18 years of age.

C. Two (2) copies of the entire contract containing the arbitration clause

D. Initial non-refundable $400 Case Management Fee (CMF) per party Each party may submit its own CMF, or to expedite the commencement of the proceedings one party may elect to submit both or all CMFs. In lengthier, more complex cases additional CMF may be billed. For cases involving consumers, see JAMS Policy on Consumer Arbitrations Pursuant to Pre-Dispute Clauses.

OR Arbitration Based on Post-Dispute Fully Executed Arbitration Agreement, Oral Stipulation or Court Order Compelling Arbitration Whether or not a certain arbitrator has been designated, if the parties have agreed to arbitrate at JAMS or the court has ordered that the parties arbitrate at JAMS, kindly forward the following items:

A. Two (2) copies of Executed Arbitration Agreement OR Court Order appointing arbitrator/JAMS Please contact JAMS to obtain the appropriate form (e.g., Arbitration Agreement)

B. Two (2) copies of the entire contract, if any, containing an applicable arbitration clause

C. Initial non-refundable $400 Case Management Fee (CMF) per party Each party may submit its own CMF, or to expedite the commencement of the proceedings one party may elect to submit both or all CMFs. In lengthier, more complex cases additional CMF may be billed. For cases involving consumers, see JAMS Policy on Consumer Arbitrations Pursuant to Pre-Dispute Clauses.

Doesn't appear that pre or post dispute has any differance to the Consumer Arbitrations pursuant to the pre-dispute clauses.

And, the consumer min standards in no way states you have to be forced into arbitration. You are allowed to initiate, however,

You may need your court ORDER COMPELING PARTIES INTO ARBITRATION. This is her only out in this...its possible she is stateing that since you didn't attach the order compeling arbitration since its post dispute that you don't qualify.

Make her state why she is declining you!!!!!!!! in writing. No rule except;

A. Two (2) copies of Executed Arbitration Agreement OR Court Order appointing arbitrator/JAMS Please contact JAMS to obtain the appropriate form (e.g., Arbitration Agreement)

Check out the Arbitration Agreement form they are refering to... because its either or. Arbitration Agreement Form or Court Order

Edited by Bradly1

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I had one case with JAMS but that was resolved very early on ... I have no detailed experience with JAMS. It appears JAMS wants the consumer to pay $400 plus half the arbitration costs as the consumer was not a forced arbitration. I would think JAMS is changing stances one more time. If it was me I would write or call JAMS main office and ask for a clarification of what is being demanded.

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I had one case with JAMS but that was resolved very early on ... I have no detailed experience with JAMS. It appears JAMS wants the consumer to pay $400 plus half the arbitration costs as the consumer was not a forced arbitration. I would think JAMS is changing stances one more time. If it was me I would write or call JAMS main office and ask for a clarification of what is being demanded.

Thats strange though, post dispute yes you have to have a court order but she should get that through her MTC with papwer work attached.

I am going the MTC rought pre-initiation. I have an order for them to initiate but after this I wrote up an oder for myself to initiate as well.

The other side is asking for a stay for me to Initiate, should I lose I am going to ask the judge to sign my order and explain that it ensures my rights under min consumer standards with arbitration forums.

Though my debt is low enough to go straight to AAA, which doesn't seem to have this requirement. Need to look into AAA a bit more though.

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I just talked to the lady at JAMS. So far, they are standing firm, claiming that each case is evaluated individually by a committee and that the consumer must be forced into arbitration by the company in order to qualify for the minimum standards. She's claiming this is in the minimum standards policy.

I don't see that anywhere. She trying to quote the first standard as the one that has that information but that's one of the standards for what the cardholders agreement has to meet and is not about what qualifies you as a consumer. The footnote that gives the definition of what a consumer is and also lists what is not qualified doesn't say anything about who initiates or if it has to be by choice or not.

Thanks for the information. I was actually forced into initiating arbitration from the first because they wouldn't stop litigating. I elected arbitration in my DV letter to the attornys when I got the summons, since the initial contact was the summons and they put the required DV information in with it. They sent a validation back with minimal information and then sent Discover totally ignoring my request for arbitration.

I'll be sure to point that out when I get the call back from JAMS.

Also, I did include the court order to arbitration with the demand for arbitration to JAMS.

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I just talked to the lady at JAMS. So far, they are standing firm, claiming that each case is evaluated individually by a committee and that the consumer must be forced into arbitration by the company in order to qualify for the minimum standards. She's claiming this is in the minimum standards policy.

I don't see that anywhere. She trying to quote the first standard as the one that has that information but that's one of the standards for what the cardholders agreement has to meet and is not about what qualifies you as a consumer. The footnote that gives the definition of what a consumer is and also lists what is not qualified doesn't say anything about who initiates or if it has to be by choice or not.

Thanks for the information. I was actually forced into initiating arbitration from the first because they wouldn't stop litigating. I elected arbitration in my DV letter to the attornys when I got the summons, since the initial contact was the summons and they put the required DV information in with it. They sent a validation back with minimal information and then sent Discover totally ignoring my request for arbitration.

I'll be sure to point that out when I get the call back from JAMS.

Also, I did include the court order to arbitration with the demand for arbitration to JAMS.

Something Strange is going on.

The arbitration agreement must be reciprocally binding on all parties such that: A) if a consumer is required to arbitrate his or her claims or all claims of a certain type, the company is so bound; and, B) no party shall be precluded from seeking remedies in small claims court for disputes or claims within the scope of its jurisdiction.

This would be the first standard I am assuming.

Just states the the greement must bind all parties the same. If and consumer is required to arbitrate his or her claims or all claims of a certain type, the company is so bound. That does not state that the company has to force you into arbitration. Just states if you are forced to arbitrate by the agreement certain claims then the company is forced to as well. That can be reversed as well if the company is required to then you are required to.

Wow, JAMS is trying to find ways out of their consumer min standards. I suggest you go through AAA and file a complaint with our(NV) Attourny General.

Get what she stated in writing, if she pulls this crap with me I am going to raise hell with our Attourny General. Stateing JAMS is trying to alter and warp their consumer standards to try and get out of consumer cases.

They have pre- and post- dispute statuses so if the company decides to force arbitration we as consumers are protected but if we try and use the arbitration agreement we arent protected!

No were does it state that arbitration must be forced by company. It just says the agreement must be reciproclly binding on all parties. States how that applies. Claims of a certain type being bound by both sides and small claims court being bound by both sides by being precluded.

Seriously, if they stand firm ask to get their decission in writting and make sure they know your submitting it to NV Attourny General to review on thier imporper treatment of the consumer.

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I agree with you. I think they are trying to get out of their minimum standards. A different person explained to me that the top paragraph where it says that JAMS will administer arbitrations pursuant to mandatory pre-dispute arbitration clauses, etc., that it means you have no other choice but arbitration. That if you choose arbitration it isn't mandatory and you don't qualify for the minimum standards.

I don't agree with her but she was quite firm about it.

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We are considering bankruptcy and will if we have to but prefer not to. I'm not ready to give up yet although I have my moments and this really stresses me out.

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Should send official notice to JAMS about your complaint. Like I said get what she said in writting; then post all the information that actually contradicts her statements. One being the 1st standards which just talk about the Agreement basicially being mutual binding.

Then state to them your going to send in your complaint to: Not sure who would be best the Cali Attourny General or to NV about a breach in your consumer protected rights under JAMS lol. Then try AAA might be the better route. Until they actually change or modify the Consumer Min Standards then they need to be held accountable for them.

Contacts:

Jay Folberg, Executive Director

Email:

jfolberg@jamsfoundation.org

David Brandon, Program Manager

Email:

dbrandon@jamsfoundation.org

Telephone: 415-774-2648

Mailing Address:

JAMS Foundation

Two Embarcadero Center, Suite 1500

San Francisco, CA 94111

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I agree with you. I think they are trying to get out of their minimum standards. A different person explained to me that the top paragraph where it says that JAMS will administer arbitrations pursuant to mandatory pre-dispute arbitration clauses, etc., that it means you have no other choice but arbitration. That if you choose arbitration it isn't mandatory and you don't qualify for the minimum standards.

I don't agree with her but she was quite firm about it.

Thats fine Mandatory pre-dispute arbitration, can go either way period. If you are forced into arbitration by the courts or if the company is forced. That is mandatory and its states between companies and consumers1.

It DOES NOT state that it has to be manadatory for the consumer only. Also, if you choose to arbitrate and motion the court to compel arbitration and get a court ordering you to arbitrate ITS MANDATORY.

I am going through JAMS after my motion to compel and I will report them to their main office and to the Attourney Generals w/e state is the one needed.

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Can't you ask for a stay in the case until this is clarified with the head office and the attorney general if need be. Afterall, your rights as a consumer is at stake. I don't believe you shoud just accept that, especially with so much evidence to the contrary in writing.

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This issue of the contractual arbitration clause not being mandatory is a non issue.

AN ARBITRATION CLAUSE IS "MANDATORY" IF YOU CAN COMPEL THE OTHER SIDE TO ARBITRATE.

you have done that.

This is simple case manager confusion. They are like court clerks, they get things wrong.

Write letters correcting the situation, leave a paper trail. If case manager does not correct, raise it as a motion with arbitrator.

They have gotten things wrong with me, I've usually corrected it with one phone call. They don't deal with a lot of consumer cases

JAMS cannot force you to pay anything, if they do and you refuse, they willl dismiss case (or non-consumer has to pay to continue!)

You hold the cards on whether the proceeding continues.

If anything about the JAMS process concerns you, you can withdraw the arbitration, unilaterally, before it "commences".

If this is Cap1, play hardship card. Tell them you are thinking about declaring BK. "If you get an arb. award, you will". Cap1 has to pay big bucks to continue arbitration AND CONTRACT PROHIBITS THEM FROM RECOVERING LEGAL AND ARBITRATION FEES!

If you convince them continuing is just flushing money down the toilet, they will dismiss.

Cap1 will spend FIVE FIGURES to prosecute a full blown arbitratuion against you with no hope of legal fee recovery. Cap1 knows this.

You can get out of the arbitration, but the question is: "Why would you want to?" Arbitration is giving you leverage...USE IT!

Show them you are broke and going forward would just be a waste for them!

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Cap1 will spend FIVE FIGURES to prosecute a full blown arbitratuion against you with no hope of legal fee recovery. Cap1 knows this.

I would love to know why.

I'm not a Cap1 customer, never have been, but I am intrigued by their way of doing business.

There appears to be a vengeful side of Cap1's management, willing to throw money at litigation without concern for the amount they can recover.

I read through a case in Atlanta, where Cap1 spent almost $10,000 to pursue a $1,200 card debt, and the debt was obviously identity theft.

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Cap1 spent 4 times that amount to collect a simialr amount from consumer.

Cap1 was denied legal fees and costs.

To me, that is still a victory!

Anytime you are not a mindless lemming getting racked up on default or SJ, you are top in my book!

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There appears to be a vengeful side of Cap1's management, willing to throw money at litigation without concern for the amount they can recover.

Cap 1 is foreign bank same as HSBC and Barclay Bank.

In foreign countries the BK is complicated and debtor can't virtually BK so the management is treating us as their customers.:cry:

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I requested a letter listing the reasons that I did not qualify for the Consumer Minimum Standards of Fairness so that I could make sure to cover all the points when writing my argument to them. She assured me that a written argument would be read and considered by someone who could make that decision as she didn't have that authority.

She told me she would have to check and see if such a letter was something they could do. (:confused: What? Why wouldn't they be able to send their reasons in writing? I think it's because they knew they were on thin ice.)

I didn't hear anything for about a week so called back and found out that the issue was being reviewed by a panel. So, after weekly calls to them, I was told that the decision has been reversed and that I DO qualify for the consumer min. standards. YAAAHHH. xdancex

I have sent an email to Cap1's attorneys letting them know that a waiver from JAMS is not available to me and that because of financial hardship and per their contract, they need to forward the money for my $250 fees to JAMS.

So, that's where I am now and I want to thank everyone here for their support. I still have a ways to go but feel much better about everything right now.

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just a clerical mistake.

So now its down to whether they pay.

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