Do I stand a chance in arbitration against a debt collector lawyer?

[Oregonactor]

I'm in Oregon...

I have a arbitration hearing on Wednesday. I seriously have no idea what I am doing other than trying to empower myself against getting screwed over beyond belief. Debt collector says he is an attorney for Chase Bank. Will Chase verify that he was retained by them even though the debt has been charged off and probably sold? And will they send that verification to me in writing to use in the hearing? In the information he sent to the arbitrator, he states that I never sent them a copy of the Answer that I filed in court. Good thing I was thinking straight and sent it certified registered and got the green card back with a signature from someone in their office saying that they did. So I have them in at least one lie. I just am not sure what things to take with me to help my case. The debt collector lawyer has a nasty reputation and there is nothing good on the internet about them. In fact many posts say that they create false documents to cement their case. I am not expecting to come out smelling like roses, but I want to at least get a good case to help knock them down a few notches.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

[jkg3]

Be prepared - the attorney is going to tell you that your envelope was empty, and they signed for an empty envelope.

Do you have a receipt from the post office showing the weight of the letter you mailed? If so, bring it along with a postal scale, envelope, green card and certified receipt, and blank sheets of paper.

Prove to the arbitrator that you mailed an envelope with paper in it.

Speaking (typing) from experience.

Attorneys love to use the empty envelope trick.

I now go one step further. I photograph everything before I mail it - green card, certified receipt, envelope, letter and enclosures. I then mail it at the post office counter so the clerk weighs it, being sure to save the receipt showing the weight.

I can't wait until some attorney tries to pull this on me again.

[Oregonactor]

I didn't think about the empty envelope trick. Live and learn on that one. Hopefully I won't have to defend that. But anything that I send in the future I will follow your advise. I'm just making myself sick over this whole arbitration thing and want it to be over. I'm also waiting to get slapped with all kinds of additional fees since the debt collection lawyer's offices are in Bellevue, Washington which is about a 6 hour drive from me, so I'm sure he's going to push for the attorney fees, travel, blah, blah, blah. Don't know if I really stand a chance, but I'm going to try to go down swinging.

[jkg3]

I didn't think about the empty envelope trick. Live and learn on that one. Hopefully I won't have to defend that. But anything that I send in the future I will follow your advise. I'm just making myself sick over this whole arbitration thing and want it to be over. I'm also waiting to get slapped with all kinds of additional fees since the debt collection lawyer's offices are in Bellevue, Washington which is about a 6 hour drive from me, so I'm sure he's going to push for the attorney fees, travel, blah, blah, blah. Don't know if I really stand a chance, but I'm going to try to go down swinging.

Yes, the empty envelope trick is common.

According to the court:

Anything they send us is considered to be received by us.

Anything we send them is considered to be a lie.

Protect yourself by documenting everything. I learned the hard way.

[trueq]

Demand JAMS forum resolve the dispute per contract.

They don't have a copy?

Then explain to the arbitrator they can't recover if they don't even have a copy of the alleged agreement.

[sub00]

Be prepared - the attorney is going to tell you that your envelope was empty, and they signed for an empty envelope.

Do you have a receipt from the post office showing the weight of the letter you mailed? If so, bring it along with a postal scale, envelope, green card and certified receipt, and blank sheets of paper.

Prove to the arbitrator that you mailed an envelope with paper in it.

Speaking (typing) from experience.

Attorneys love to use the empty envelope trick.

I now go one step further. I photograph everything before I mail it - green card, certified receipt, envelope, letter and enclosures. I then mail it at the post office counter so the clerk weighs it, being sure to save the receipt showing the weight.

I can't wait until some attorney tries to pull this on me again.

The best is to put certified letter #number into the letter right on top and FAX it to them as CC carbon copy. Then you have additional FAX receipt.

[Oregonactor]

Found a website that lists this debt collection lawyer as a collection agency and buys debt. Does not ever "represent" the OC. Do I have a chance to knock them down a few notches if I produce that information? I just seriously have no idea what to expect other than I paid my half of the arbitrator fees and am going in completely blind.

[Massive]

Found a website that lists this debt collection lawyer as a collection agency and buys debt. Does not ever "represent" the OC. Do I have a chance to knock them down a few notches if I produce that information? I just seriously have no idea what to expect other than I paid my half of the arbitrator fees and am going in completely blind.

Who is the collection agency?

[Oregonactor]

Suttell and Hammer, P.C. formerly known as Suttell & Associates, P.C. in Bellevue, Washington.

[Massive]

Yes, the empty envelope trick is common.

According to the court:

Anything they send us is considered to be received by us.

Anything we send them is considered to be a lie.

Protect yourself by documenting everything. I learned the hard way.

Yep, isn't that the truth. Just another part of the corruption in courts across this nation.

[Massive]

Found a website that lists this debt collection lawyer as a collection agency and buys debt. Does not ever "represent" the OC. Do I have a chance to knock them down a few notches if I produce that information? I just seriously have no idea what to expect other than I paid my half of the arbitrator fees and am going in completely blind.

I'm not familiar with the arbitration process although I was subjected to (2) bogus arbitration awards through the National Arbitration Forum which I opposed several years ago. I do know if they present any kind of membership agreement make sure the copyright matched the year you opened the account. Sounds like this attorney has been dishonest and is coming at you with unclean hands so to speak. I don't believe they have any proof that they represent the original creditor. Hammer that home to the arbitrator. Sounds to me like the law firm/collection agency purchased evidence of debt and is coming at you fraudulently in the original creditors name. Copy that website info and take it with you. Nobody sends an empty envelope CMRRR, postal workers handle those envelopes and would have been aware if you were mailing an empty envelope. Get some confidence, you have as much a right to be there as that collector. Stand tall and open up a can of whoop a$$ on that collector!!

[jkg3]

Found a website that lists this debt collection lawyer as a collection agency and buys debt. Does not ever "represent" the OC. Do I have a chance to knock them down a few notches if I produce that information? I just seriously have no idea what to expect other than I paid my half of the arbitrator fees and am going in completely blind.

A website is not proof. You could have made the wesbite yourself.

The company suing you needs to prove they own the debt.

[Oregonactor]

I just got off the phone with Chase Bank to verify if they have sold my debt or not to the collection agency that has filed suit against me. I have an arbitration hearing on Wednesday and I am going to ask some very serious questions of the plaintiff.

The court documents state that he is the attorney for the plaintiff Chase Bank. The very nice woman that I talked to at Chase Bank just informed me that they have not sold the debt but it has been assigned to Fred Hanna, an attorney in Georgia. I asked this lady if she had ever heard of Suttell and Hammer, a collection attorney located in Washington. She said he was not associated with Chase and that they had assigned the case to Fred Hanna. I have never been contacted by Fred Hanna other than I see he has made a couple of inquiries on my credit report. But nothing from their office directly. So do I have something on them? I would love to hand that juicy tidbit over in my arbitration hearing on Wednesday.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Oregonactor

[trueq]

I'd still challenge jurisdiction by exercising JAMS in Chase contract.

I'd get an FDCPA lawyer to make a phone call to this lawyer tomorrow...if they don't drop and dismiss you will sue him, the law firm, and file a complaint with state bar for misrepresenting who their client is.

[oregonpilot]

Is this oregon court appointed ADR arbitration or AAA or JAMS

[Oregonactor]

You know Oregon Pilot, that is a great question. I have been doing research beyond research to arm myself with the best knowledge that I can. Let me lay out the situation for you and anyone else that wants to chime in on it.

In February 2010 I was served on a Sunday at my home by a process server. She handed me copies of a Summons & Complaint and a Notice to Appear. She didn't have me sign anything, she didn't even ask me to verify my name, she just handed me the papers and ran off to her car. I read the papers and by appearances in the paperwork, I was being sued by Chase Bank since they were listed as the plaintiffs. I had 30 days to file my answer with the county clerk. I waited until day 28 I think. I filed my Answer, and sent a copy to the "opposing attorney" (really a collection lawyer) certified registered return mail. I received a copy of the green card back with the notification they had signed for it on March 8th. I noted that the receiving signature was not a real signature, but a stamped signature.

So then I get a Arbitration Selection by Stipulation notice with a list of Arbitrators to select from. I filled that out and sent it back as requested by the required due date. Then I get a Notice of Scheduled Court Proceeding indicating that the court appts "such and such" as Arbitrator. April 7th I receive a copy of the letter that the collection lawyer sent to the arbitrator with their half of the fees, a copy of their calendar, a copy of the summons and complaint and a note that I never sent them a copy of the Answer. April 8th I get a letter from the arbitrator stating that she was selected as the arbitrator in the case and I needed to send my calendar with available dates. I sent them in with my half of the fees, the calendar, a copy of my Answer filed with the county and a photocopy of the green card with the signatures showing that I sent the Answer and someone in the collection lawyers office signed for it. Then on April 15th I receive Hearing Arbitration notice for April 21st at 1:00 p.m. with award do to court by May 5th.

So now I am scrambling to get anything together that I can to walk in there with some sort of knowledge that I know what I am doing. Which I can honestly say I have NO idea what I am doing. I called Chase Bank today to verify if they still had the debt or had sold it. They informed me that it was assigned to Fred Hanna Collection Attorney and they could not talk to me at all about a settlement. I told them I wasn't calling to settle anything because this was going to arbitration in 2 days and I had some serious questions to ask. Chase seemed a little surprised that I had arbitration scheduled because their records did not show that they had knowledge of a lawsuit. It appears that this Fred Hanna place contracted another collection lawyer to bring the suit against me since Fred Hanna is not licensed to practice in the state of Oregon. So now I'm wondering if I even have a argument since Chase did not "authorize" Suttell and Hammer to sue, they did not assign the debt to them, it is assigned to Fred Hanna.

And the other thing that I know I can push is when Chase said they could not help me but transfer me directly to the collection agency (Fred Hanna) to work out a settlement. I know they can still talk to me if I push hard enough, but at this point I am only fighting one battle at a time. Chase was really wanting to transfer me, but I said I wanted to go to arbitration and thanked them for their time.

So that is the situation. I admit it....I screwed up big time. I did not prepare my Answer - someone else did so a lot of it is legal mumbo jumbo that I honestly have no idea what it means.

So in short Oregonpilot, I think this was court mandated because no where did I pull the "arbitration" card that I keep hearing about people playing. I just hope that if I take my financial situation in with me that the arbitrator will go a little soft on any sort of judgement payment.

[oregonpilot]

Oh shi (POOP) this is state ADR (Alternative dispute Resolution) your hearing this wensday.. this is not the kind of arbitration you been reading about

Did you ever get the agreement to read the arbitration clause.

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1027530&postcount=11

You need it to fill this out. it might be to late but I would hand deliver it to the arbitator and over night it to the OC and the JDB

[Oregonactor]

Oregonpilot, what the heck does that mean? How srewed am I about this whole thing? There is no way I can get the agreement to anyone in time even if I hand deliver it. As it is, it's going to take me almost 1 1/2 hours just to get to the location of the hearing arbitiration.

So now what do I need to know to be prepared for this new twist? I'll research what I can, but I have a really bad feeling that I will not come out of this without some serious reprocussions on my part. I can only do what the arbitrator states at this point. I can say I have officially been screwed.

[Oregonactor]

I know it may be stupid, but I think I am just going to give up and let this Alternative dispute Resolution thing happen since I really have no defense at this time. I will have to go and see what the arbitrator decides and hope that she will allow me to ask some very pointed questions of the "plaintiff". I do have a call into an Oregon attorney about the representation question, but other than that, I just don't have the knowledge to fight this. Hopefully if I have to settle, I will be able to make some good demands that the arbitrator will honor. This is far from over, but I don't see any alternatives. Thanks everyone for the help thus far.

[oregonpilot]

This type of ARB doesnt really cost them anything thing so there not as willing to settle for less

tomarrow check with TRUEQ, BROKEBOB, JKG3 AND MG05

they may have some ideas I dont know if you can still elect to use the ARB clause this late in the game

Im in the same boat as you I have ADR set for the end of the month and sent a letter to elect ABR with AAA or NAF on the 13th CMRR to scumbags, arbitrator and the OC

today I received a giant stack of papers I am still looking threw and the stamped green card from the scum bags

so I'll be back tomarrow with a bunch of question my self

[AngryandBroke]

Oregon has mandatory court arbitration, and the courts seem totally lost when you start talking about private arbitration. Just keep denying and fighting. You should be able to petition for private arbitration even after court arbitration.