MG05

NEW DV ARB TACTIC

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6.) This is formal notice that I am electing arbitration, and your ability to litigate any potential claims is hereby waived.

Completely incorrect - this little notice does nothing to prevent arbitration.

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Completely incorrect - this little notice does nothing to prevent arbitration.

???

We're not trying to prevent arbitration. We're trying to invoke it. Some of the CC agreements have time frames in which you have to let the creditor (or it's assignees) know that you've chosen arbitration in lieu of litigation.

If you meant it will do nothing to prevent litigation, then you may be partially correct. They may still litigate, but if they choose to in the face of your arbitration election, they better be ready for an FDCPA counterclaim (If JDB/CA) on top of a breach of contract claim when you motion to compel in court and get the case moved to private arb.

Citifinancial and their lapdog lawyer just experienced this first hand :)

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Completely incorrect - this little notice does nothing to prevent arbitration.

If we are splitting hairs - Arbitration = Form of Litigation - I use "... waive both our rights to litigate this matter in a Court of Law".

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@Admin, I do not think we are trying to PREVENT ARB, we are ELECTING ARB!

You can't elect arbitration at this point (when you are sent a notice of debt). All they are doing is sending you a notice telling you they have this debt and giving you a chance to say whether or not it is valid. At this point, all you can do is ask for validation from them.

If you cite arbitration, you admitting this debt is legit. NOT SMART by any stretch of the imagination.

This also DOES NOT prevent litigation, as numerous threads have pointed out with such titles as "I elected arbitration but they sued me anyways".

The DV/arb was one of the dangerous myths perpetuated in this forum. Please get your facts straight.

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If, per the CC agreement, you elect arbitration, yet you still get sued, the lawyer is guilty of, at a minimum, the FDCPA and your state's unfair and deceptive trade practices act. So though electing arbitration may not stop litigation(a good motion to compel arbitration should deal with this), a lawyer that ignores your demand for arbitration does so at their own risk. Not only would I sue them, I would also report them to the local bar association.

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Let's try this-

"You can't elect arbitration at this point (when you are sent a notice of debt). "

What statue or law says that this is not acceptable, you are simply informing the DC of your intent regarding the business matter or dispute they are infroming you about.

"If you cite arbitration, you admitting this debt is legit. NOT SMART by any stretch of the imagination."

In accurate at best. A correctly word DV is simply saying I deny the debt is mine please forward proof, and by the way if there is an agreement related to this debt, I am electing to use arbitration to resolve.

Most OC/JDB aren't sending these letters to go through the DV process, they have an anticipated hit rate where they are getting paid at this point in the process and the cost of mailing is off set by the amount they are getting paid. They certainly don't have to send them prior to filing suit.

"This also DOES NOT prevent litigation, as numerous threads have pointed out with such titles as "I elected arbitration but they sued me anyways".

These folks haven't done the research neccessary to understand the process, they showed up and read 10-12 threads and said "hot damn" I will do that.

"The DV/arb was one of the dangerous myths perpetuated in this forum. Please get your facts straight. "

Anyone who shows up and doesn't do the work (research) will loose whether in court or arbitration period.

Arbitration in with the correct amount owed, and a sloppy collector/attorney is just as affective in minimizing a DC's desire to continue collecting as showing up in court and attempting to practice law with all of it technical procedures. I would add that in dealing with an OC, arbitration is more difficult just as in court.

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While I have no experience with Arb or adding the arb line to your DV but I sent out a short and sweet DV after initial communication with CA and received summons 6 days after I received the green card back.

They are gonna sue these days no matter what.

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If, per the CC agreement, you elect arbitration, yet you still get sued, the lawyer is guilty of, at a minimum, the FDCPA and your state's unfair and deceptive trade practices act. So though electing arbitration may not stop litigation(a good motion to compel arbitration should deal with this), a lawyer that ignores your demand for arbitration does so at their own risk. Not only would I sue them, I would also report them to the local bar association.

The FDCPA does not mention arbitration at all. There is no violation of the FDCPA even you request VALIDATION and they sue you WITHOUT VALIDATION, as numerous cases have shown.

This is a completely "miss-the-mark" point.

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Let's try this-

"You can't elect arbitration at this point (when you are sent a notice of debt). "

What statue or law says that this is not acceptable, you are simply informing the DC of your intent regarding the business matter or dispute they are infroming you about.

Not that you can't request it, but it has NO EFFECT. You can also request that they clean your house for you, free of charge, and this is not illegal to do so, but it doesn't mean they are under any obligation.

"If you cite arbitration, you admitting this debt is legit. NOT SMART by any stretch of the imagination."

In accurate at best. A correctly word DV is simply saying I deny the debt is mine please forward proof, and by the way if there is an agreement related to this debt, I am electing to use arbitration to resolve.

Yeah, so if you say you want to use arbitration, then you are saying there is a debt to resolve. The smart thing to do is say there is NO DEBT to resolve, and you want validation.

A correctly worded DV letter does not request proof, but validation, and they DV threshold is extremely low.

Most OC/JDB aren't sending these letters to go through the DV process, they have an anticipated hit rate where they are getting paid at this point in the process and the cost of mailing is off set by the amount they are getting paid. They certainly don't have to send them prior to filing suit.

You're just jumping the gun. Why not just request validation from them. In this way, you are not fueling the fires.

"This also DOES NOT prevent litigation, as numerous threads have pointed out with such titles as "I elected arbitration but they sued me anyways".

These folks haven't done the research neccessary to understand the process, they showed up and read 10-12 threads and said "hot damn" I will do that.

Promotion of the DV/arb as a legit method, shows there is some homework which hasn't been done in regards to this fact, either.

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Not that you can't request it, but it has NO EFFECT. You can also request that they clean your house for you, free of charge, and this is not illegal to do so, but it doesn't mean they are under any obligation.

They are obligated if their contract says "If either you or we elect to have our house cleaned free of charge, then neither of us can pursue this claim in a court of law or before a judge or jury."

While your house may stay junkie, by contract, they cannot pursue the claim in court.

We are citing the language of the contract, not some strange request we just pulled out the air.

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I agree with chuckygee , I was unlucky enough to have 5 lawsuits to play with 4 with the OC and one with a JDB , I tried different things in different cases , I mostly followed what Trueq and MG05 posted and found that everything they said worked the way they said .

The DV with the arbitration statement cut my phone calls by about 90% and so far no more law suits . On the JDB case I got his first two SJ,s denied and when he went for the 3rd SJ I requested Arbitration and the Judge granted it .

If they furnish an agreement that has the wrong copyright date or they furnish no agreement and you bring that up at the start you can get your arbitration anytime you want it , at least in our court .

And Arbitration appears to be way better than Court , I may still lose but its a long way away , and that what a lot of people want .

Everyone makes mistakes but kicking Trueq off this site and giving MG05 a bad time was a major mistake and lots of people will end up being hurt by what happened , its like someone sold out to the other side .

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The FDCPA does not mention arbitration at all. There is no violation of the FDCPA even you request VALIDATION and they sue you WITHOUT VALIDATION, as numerous cases have shown.

This is a completely "miss-the-mark" point.

No, you are missing the mark. If a lawyer/CA/JDB sue you after you request arbitration, per the original CC agreement, that entity is taking or threatening to take an action that they can not legally take (in addition to unfair and decptive practices and breach of contract). Does the FDCPA say anything about overshadowing? Does it talk about time-barred debts? Just because the term arbitation is not in the FDCPA, does not mean a hill of beans. Requesting arbitration takes litigation off of the table. To do otherwise opens up a company or lawyer to all kinds of grief.

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I am at a loss in trying to find understanding with the admin on this-

The folks that are attempting to keep what is left of this section of the forum are not making these things up. We are the one's answering the Dunning Letters, filing the Motions, Engaging the OC's and JDB's and paying the bill for others to learn from our success or mistakes regarding arbitration and the process surrounding arbitration.

It is frustrating to have to fight or explain a resonalble strategy to the Admin, that is highly aware of how it works or maybe I am assuming with almost 10 months of time speaking and reading about arbitration that the Admin gets it.

I am in a Motion to Compel right now hearing on July 9th, I have seen the attorneys opposition papers to my motion. I payed the $40 bucks to have it heard, and have study his arguement to prepare to win my motion. This is with OC and DC Attorney, not a JDB which means I am out gunned a bit on law quotes but will do my best.

I have a second JDB that I have elected and been setting up for pre-emptive arbitration, have them on FDCPA violations and some TCPA along with state statues. Debt is for around $2500 and I have to pay $50 bucks to get them into arbitration on my terms for their mistakes.

So with all due respect to the Admin, we are not pulling the information out of a magic hat, we are relaying experiences we have had in the actual battle. I would think that is the intention of this site, again always being mindful that one experiece doesn't create statuatory law and that each person is required to do resonable research or seek legal advice for their own personal situation.

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Admin, you fail to see the benefits that arb can have if used carefully. I have now used both methods (arb election & DV with CA at first dunning letter, and election of arb after suit filed by JDB).

BOTH METHODS WORKED FOR ME!!

In the first case, which was after suit was filed by JDB, the attorney motioned to dismiss without prejudice, to submit claim to JAMS. Dismissal was at the end of February and not a peep since then. Further, no negative tradeline from the JDB, either...

Second case, election of arb with DV letter sent to CA after receipt of dunning letter. No further contact from CA since letter sent in mid-March. Looking at my CR, I suspect they have returned it to the OC. But no word from them either.....

So..... I've had several months of peace and quiet at this point. NOW TELL ME THAT THIS DOESN'T WORK!!! Besides, I have a backup plan in place if need be.

To dismiss this method, in the manner that you have, is not only a disservice to the members of this board, but it is an affront to those of us who can read and wish to hold these butthole banks/JDBs/CAs to the letter of the contract they try to ram down our throats

Just my thoughts and checking out for the holiday weekend - have a wonderful and safe holiday, all!!

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I have used the DV with arb method a number of times. I used it 3 times with law firms, all around late jan or early feb. One firm, Kohn representing Discover, did not reply at all. Another firm, M&K, representing Crap1, sent back a truly pathetic attempt at validation, and nothing since. The third, RSIEH, representing Citi, actually filed suit. That was back in late May, and I have not yet been served. I sent them a nasty letter reminding them that I had elected arbitration, and demanded they withdraw the case. They sent back a letter with an impossible timeline, along with an AAA form, demanding that I initiate in AAA within 30 days. Then they waited 2 weeks to send it, and sent it to me right before vacation. I will have to really put the screws on them. This could get interesting.

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The language on their last letter was interesting. I demanded dismissal, the letter said I had 'requested a stay for arbitration'. They claimed it was impossible to initiate arbitration unless i filled out an AAA form. Except that the agreement also mentions JAMS. They said they would 'inform the court' that I was not cooperating with arbitration unless I met their aarbitrary and impossible deadline. IMO, they are just digging a bigger hole for themselves. This could really come back to bite them hard.

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this timeline thing bothers me.

The banks used some pretty clever attorneys to draft these Arbitration agreements. IMO they left out any timelines so they could proceed at a pace beneficial to them.

Now the tables are turned. Any letter I received from an attorney putting timelines would be immediately followed up with a letter asking where in the contract does it mention timelines. If it's not in the contract, not enforceable. If you do not wish to initiate, I will initiate after I finish my research into my options etc.

If in court, I would respond with "they wrote the contract, they are some pretty smart people, they left out timelines to protect themselves, now they are trying to change the contract to make timelines enforcable, yada yada.

But, then I am just that sort of person.

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Interesting. I was thinking more along the lines of "your continued violation of my consumer rights does not give you the additional right to dictate the terms of my response".

My guess from the beginning was that they knew they couldn't initiate arbitration, so they sued to try to trick me into either forgetting my election of arbitration, or to force me to initiate. Not to mention they are trying to dictate the forum, AAA instead of JAMS.

In fact, I may eventually file a claim in JAMS for this case. They left out some steps that are crucial in Wisconsin. If I stayed in court, I could at least get a dismissal w/o prejudice, possibly a dismissal with. I am worried that a dismissal w/o prejudice would just encourage them to file again. What about if I were to file for arbitration at my convenience with JAMS. By that time, they would've really dug themselves a hole. I could file for over $250k, to get comprehensive rules. When they counterclaim for the debt, I could point out the defects in their claim. So, at that point the claim is pending in court, and dead in arbitration. Even if I lose in arbitration, they would have to get the judgment confirmed by the court. This has not happened in WI for about 3 years. With the defects in the case, it cannot happen. So, they would probably wind up spending tens of thousands to fight strong counterclaims.

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I have used the DV with arb method a number of times. I used it 3 times with law firms, all around late jan or early feb. One firm, Kohn representing Discover, did not reply at all. Another firm, M&K, representing Crap1, sent back a truly pathetic attempt at validation, and nothing since. The third, RSIEH, representing Citi, actually filed suit. That was back in late May, and I have not yet been served. I sent them a nasty letter reminding them that I had elected arbitration, and demanded they withdraw the case. They sent back a letter with an impossible timeline, along with an AAA form, demanding that I initiate in AAA within 30 days. Then they waited 2 weeks to send it, and sent it to me right before vacation. I will have to really put the screws on them. This could get interesting.
So..... I've had several months of peace and quiet at this point. NOW TELL ME THAT THIS DOESN'T WORK!!! Besides, I have a backup plan in place if need be.

You guys are trying to prove a negative. Just because you haven't gone inside a courtroom doesn't mean this is a result of this DV/Arb thingy.

PROOF would consist of the plaintiff going after you in court after the magical DV/arb letter and having the case dismissed because of it. Just because two things happen doesn't mean there is a relationship between these events.

The disservice here would be to allow people to publish this "method" and claim it works without proof to back it up.

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