OZZIE69

Portfolio Recovery - Crap1

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My Crap1 was sold to Portfolio Recovery. Once I got letter from them I sent dv letter. They responded with Name of Creditor, amount due and said the received it from electronic file. I sent 2nd dv and said this was not good enough for validation. They sent letter saying it was. I sent 3rd dv asking for original signed agreement and statements. They sent letter saying dispute is frivolous or irrelevant.

Have they validated?? I don't think so. What should be my next step??

Thanks

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I'd beg them to sue me personally. Until they provide a bill of sale expressly stating your name, account number, accurate balance, accurate sale price authenticated by the Original Creditor they have nothing to collect on.

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Too many letters.

The first DV should ask for what you want: signed contract, proof of sale, complete accounting of amount owed.

If they don't send what you want, second letter is: Lacking the information I require to resolve this matter, I am closing my files. Do not contact me again.

Your choices now: ignore them, or tell them to cease all communciation with you.

Regards,

DH

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The FDCPA tells you what a creditor is required to provide for validation.

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My first letter asked for 12 months statements and copy of signed agreement. Third letter asked for copy of signed agreement and mentioned pursuing my legal options against them.

Per FDCPA it says all they need to produce is name of original creditor and amount due which they did provide. Of course anyone could pull that from my credit report and send a letter.

I am concerned that not responding with another dispute letter I am saying I owe for debt.

Sounds like my best bet is to ignore going forward.

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I like what DH said - "Lacking the information I require to resolve this matter, I am closing my files."

I would send them one last letter and tell them short and sweet.

I do not believe that I owe this debt and therefore I dispute this account.

I have asked several times for documentation from you in order to resolve this matter, but you have yet to send the information requested, therefore I am now closing my files.

Regards,

Your Name (Typed)

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The FDCPA tells you what a creditor is required to provide for validation.

I like to argue this point! smileypeashooter2.gif

It all goes back to what is proper validation? What they "have" to send is one thing - which basically will tell you nothing more than what their collection letter already has. But, if you put in your validation letter the things that you want to see, they will know that you are one of the ones that know what you will be asking for if this goes further and they will know up front that either they better have the information or walk away.

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I like that Linda and will send. Of course, I know I owe the debt but not to Portfolio Recovery!!

Exactly! That's why you can say anytime that you don't recognize the debt as you never had one with them! Plus the fact that the amount is probably not what you remember defaulting on! Both reasons that you don't recognize it! :)++

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I know Crap1 had and arbitration clause. Should I mentioned anything about that or wait till they try to sue????

Thanks Linda

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I know Crap1 had and arbitration clause. Should I mentioned anything about that or wait till they try to sue????

Thanks Linda

You need to start a new thread in the forum "Is there a lawyer in the house" and then you can reference this thread. We do have an arbitration forum, but I think I would first let them know in the "Is there a lawyer in the house" and let them guide you from there!

There are a lot of things you will need to be careful of if you do go the arbitration route and if you're thinking like that - you need to get the plan laid out now before you do anything, so please ask in the other forum and make sure you've got all your ducks in a row! :)++

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"It all goes back to what is proper validation?"

I know, and I agree with you that they should have to send more. He asked if they had validated. If they provide what the FDCPA says they must provide, whether in the original letter or in a subsequent letter, they have validated.

There's a number of definitions for "validation" such as "to confirm the validity of". It's possible the FDCPA simply intended that debt collectors prove the debt is valid...that it exists. That doesn't mean the collectors have proven you owe it or that they have a right to collect. It simply means the debt exists.

"which basically will tell you nothing more than what their collection letter already has"

No, a JDB's collection letter doesn't always name the OC. A simple validation will provide that information. Sometimes, all the recipient needs to know is the name of the OC to remember the debt and recognize that it's old and outside the SOL. They don't need any other documentation because they already know the collector can't do a thing to them. Then they simply send the collector a C & D.

Proving a debt is valid, proving they own the debt. and proving that you owe it are all different things. When you ask that they prove they own the debt and have a right to try to collect it and report it, that's a different story. That's more than proving that a debt exists. But it's what we ask for in order to fight a lawsuit or get them off our credit reports.

Edited by BV80

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I just read Michigan Fair Debt Collection Practies Act. It states "Verification of the debt or any disputed portion of the debt shall include the number and amount of previously made payments and the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor, or a copy of the judgement against the debtor"

They failed here.

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"I just read Michigan Fair Debt Collection Practies Act. It states "Verification of the debt or any disputed portion of the debt shall include the number and amount of previously made payments and the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor, or a copy of the judgement against the debtor"

Then the OP would send them a DV siting the Michigan law. Not all states are that specific. I've been trying to find the link to the Michigan act. Could you post it please?

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Thank you. I couldn't find it in the state database.

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Sent final letter stating they have not validated as per Michigan law and that I am closing my file. Received green card back today. Now, if they call again before sending anything is that a violation? I plan on ignoring now until they proof debt. Thanks

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Question. Porfolio Recovery received my 2nd dv letter and sent response on July 1, but still have not validated debt as per Michigan Law. On July 6, they send me a "Account Selected for Legal Review" and a settlement offer.

Is this letter a violation since debt was never validated? I have not heard from them since my final letter dated July 12 which told them I condsidered file closed.

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One could make the argument that if they break a state law, they they're vicariously breaking the FDCPA.

While in this case, they've probably provided what they need to provide per the FDCPA's validation requirements (though I always ask in follow up how they verified such information and if the information they sent was actually from the original creditor, but that's mainly for leverage if I file a countersuit), what they're missing here isn't 1692g(B). They've satisfied that on the surface.

But since they haven't satisfied the Michigan law, I would argue that they are trying to collect using unfair practices generally under 1692f. This has never been adjudicated as far as I can tell, but logically it makes sense to me since breaking a law is unethical and unfair to you, then by breaking that law, such a collection practice is violative. I've seen others bring up this argument, but it never seems to get to the point where it makes caselaw; and this is most likely because neither side wants to be responsible for making bad law. If we as consumers prevail on this, then any state law a CA breaks, makes them liable for FDCPA actions. If we as consumers fail in this regard, they can break state law all day and not worry about the FDCPA penalty.

One quick question though, does the MI Fair Debt Act have a private right of action and a statutory penalty?

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From that link, it looks like MI has a private right of action (meaning you can sue), and it's not limited to a per action basis, but on a per violation basis. And if the acts are found to be willful the 50 dollar penalty can be trebled to 150. Not a bad addendum to the FDCPA's 1k.

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I sent letter and they received 7/16 stating I am closing file due to lack of validation. I have not heard from them since. They were on my credit report in July. Should I pull again, and should they be off??

Thanks

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Credit inquires are required to stay on your cr for 2 years.

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