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Heard back from my lawyer -- CA/JDB wants to know my income/expenses??


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Background info can be found here:

http://www.debt-consolidation-credit-repair-service.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302881

Pretrial was Monday. Just heard from my lawyer this afternoon. The CA for JDB called him today and said that she's called Palisades and they haven't said "yes" or "no" to a settlement, but SHE wants to know what my monthly income is and what my expenses are.

When my lawyer told me that, I nearly freaked out! What business is it of hers what I make!!! My lawyer claims that they can find that out by asking the court for an order for me to produce/get that info.

My husband is out of work, and I am the sole bread winner, so that's in my favor -- at least my lawyer thinks so.

The thing is -- they STILL have not produced ANYTHING and the court has ordered for them to produce the documents. They have until early August to produce them.

The CA feels that if she has this info she can "twist Palisades arm" into accepting a settlement offer.

I want to wait out the 28 days to see if Palisades comes up with anything, but my lawyer thinks that if we don't give them what they want now and wait until the 28 days are almost up, then IF they do want to accept an offer they may not since we waited to long to get them the documents -- this is also IF they have anything that proves their case in the end.

What does everyone think??? Should I comply and give them the info? All it has to be is a piece of paper with what I make and my monthly expenses. I feel VERY uncomfortable doing only this.

I keep telling myself that even after they get this info that Palisades will still not contact them (their CA) and we will get a dismissal with prejudice based on their lack of attention/decision making/etc.

Questions??? Comments???

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Tell them to get a court order if they want an asset review. I'm surprised your lawyer is telling you to comply. The only reason they want the information is to decide if they should continue with the case. If it looks like they can collect, they will buy the documentation they need. If it looks like they cannot, they will likely dismiss. If you give them nothing, they have to guess. All ways keep them guessing. Tell your lawyer to tell them they will get nothing of the sort from you until the court compels it.

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My lawyer says if I show that my expenses = my income that they should just comply with a settlement -- which he wants me to take to "get the monkey off my back", but I don't want to pay anything since I've never seen any documentation to prove that I owe anything in the first place! I feel like he's not working for me, and just wants to get this all over with as quickly as possible.

From my reading here, I'm nervous that when they see I have a mortgage payment that they will try to tap into that (the practically zero equity that I have). Can they try to seize property or think that I will sell something to "settle" this debt?

Mind you, they are not asking for copies of documents, just a peice of paper that states my income/expenses. Not signed/noterized/anything.

Could this maybe be a good thing to show that I have zero $$ to provide them with??

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That is a decision you have to make. If you think it is to your advantage to disclose, then by all means do so. Just know that they do not have a right to the information before judgement. Some people like to fight, some people like to settle. I have done both myself, fought one OC that was unreasonable, and settled with another OC that was.

Depending on the amount of money they are seeking will determine what will sway them. If you have too little money or assets, they may not even pursue the case in court. If it looks like they can get their money sooner or later, they may continue. Since you have an attorney, he/she is likely the best to advise you.

Let us know how it all works out.

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My lawyer says if I show that my expenses = my income that they should just comply with a settlement -- which he wants me to take to "get the monkey off my back", but I don't want to pay anything since I've never seen any documentation to prove that I owe anything in the first place! I feel like he's not working for me, and just wants to get this all over with as quickly as possible.

From my reading here, I'm nervous that when they see I have a mortgage payment that they will try to tap into that (the practically zero equity that I have). Can they try to seize property or think that I will sell something to "settle" this debt?

Mind you, they are not asking for copies of documents, just a peice of paper that states my income/expenses. Not signed/noterized/anything.

Could this maybe be a good thing to show that I have zero $$ to provide them with??

Give them what they gave you, NOTHING. Ask your lawyer why does it take a court order to get proof when they should have already had it prior to filing the lawsuit and why doesn't your lawyer file to dismiss the case for lack of standing to file suit. Be Blessed! S.A.

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Give them what they gave you, NOTHING. Ask your lawyer why does it take a court order to get proof when they should have already had it prior to filing the lawsuit and why doesn't your lawyer file to dismiss the case for lack of standing to file suit. Be Blessed! S.A.

This is how I feel about it as well. They gave me nothing up front when I asked for it, and so I should give them nothing in return.

Ugh....I don't know what to do. I told my lawyer that I would need a few days to get him this info, but now I don't want to give it to him.

Since there is court ordered discovery on both parties, do I have to give them THIS info, or is court ordered discovery only related to evidence of the debt??

FYI, this suit is NOT coming from the OC, but the JDB, so I would think that they are more likey to either dismiss or settle.

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69243]This is how I feel about it as well. They gave me nothing up front when I asked for it' date=' and so I should give them nothing in return.

[b']I'm no lawyer but I have defeated 2 jdbs for exactly the same thing no documents. You have a right to defend yourself against your accuser, how can you defend against nothing. How do you know they have the right person. Answer! You don't.

Ugh....I don't know what to do. I told my lawyer that I would need a few days to get him this info, but now I don't want to give it to him.

There are lawyers and there are lawyers some specialize in certain areas. Just because they where the title means they understand every aspect of the law, not all know the FCRA or FDCPA, heck i beat a lawyer that advertised knowing the FDCPA so well that his clients cases would be a snap and yet I beat him and file a complaint with Bar against him.

Since there is court ordered discovery on both parties, do I have to give them THIS info, or is court ordered discovery only related to evidence of the debt??

I think the courts reasoning for discovery is to minimize foot dragging by showing your hand. Got anything then move forward, got nothing case dismiss. It is the court that can give a hearing on your finances not the jdb. Discovery therefore is directed towards the debt sued upon.

FYI, this suit is NOT coming from the OC, but the JDB, so I would think that they are more likey to either dismiss or settle.

Which means they probly got sqaut! Ask youself this. If you had some concrete evidence on me and you're looking for a favorable response from me, which stradagy would most likely work 1. Show me the evidence? or 2. Tell me you have the evidence without showing me.

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In your other thread I commented that in a negotiation, each side is trying to get maximum advantage for themselves, whether it's negotiating for real estate, a car, or a washer. [Correction: it may not have been your thread, but the point still stands. DH]

So make them a deal. Tell them you'll send them your income information if they tell you how much they paid for your account. That will give you information to use to your advantage to get the best deal for you.

I sympathize with your dilemma, WasteofTaxMoney. We yahoos in cyberspace can offer you advice in a very cavalier fashion, because we have nothing at stake. You are the one with something at risk. In the end, you need to do what's comfortable for you.

Good luck,

DH

Edited by debtorshusband
Correction
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So make them a deal. Tell them you'll send them your income information if they tell you how much they paid for your account. That will give you information to use to your advantage to get the best deal for you.

Hmm, that's a good idea. I think I'm going to go that route. I'll let my lawyer know that I'll hand over that info if the CA produces something.

It just seems fishy to me that 2 days after the pretrial and order of discovery that the CA for JDB calls and says that she's looking for income info....yet her client has still produced nothing.

My lawyer has said to me, "how lucky do you feel?" in regards to waiting out the discovery period or just giving this information over to them.

I think it's only fair that they produce before I do.

I really appreciate all the help from everyone here. Getting feed back and hearing others experiences is worth a lot to me and how I handle this hard time in my life.

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In your other thread I commented that in a negotiation, each side is trying to get maximum advantage for themselves, whether it's negotiating for real estate, a car, or a washer. [Correction: it may not have been your thread, but the point still stands. DH]

So make them a deal. Tell them you'll send them your income information if they tell you how much they paid for your account. That will give you information to use to your advantage to get the best deal for you.

I sympathize with your dilemma, WasteofTaxMoney. We yahoos in cyberspace can offer you advice in a very cavalier fashion, because we have nothing at stake. You are the one with something at risk. In the end, you need to do what's comfortable for you.

Good luck,

DH

I'm not against negotiation. However, when the playing field is level. As you're statement suggest "each side is trying to get maximum advantage for themselves" the advantage is with the jdb. I don't think its being cavalier to ask and seek balance. I don't know anyone that will pay on a mortgage, untilities, car payment without knowing what it is they have to pay, if something is off you have a right to complain b/c of an agreed to amount.

You're right we all have our own style and motivation some based on experience other self gradizement but I'm hopefully that as we were helped in our beginnings by others as I was, that as we grow from both the experience and knowledge, we would share with others who are in their beginning stages. I think your statement can come across as a put down to those of us who are just trying to give what we got in return. Had it not been for this site I wouldn't have thought I could go to court pro se and win. There's enough of us here that can give the OP good opinions over bad advice, nothing legal but something to chew on. Be Blessed!

Edited by saint al
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In your other thread I commented that in a negotiation, each side is trying to get maximum advantage for themselves, whether it's negotiating for real estate, a car, or a washer. [Correction: it may not have been your thread, but the point still stands. DH]

So make them a deal. Tell them you'll send them your income information if they tell you how much they paid for your account. That will give you information to use to your advantage to get the best deal for you.

I sympathize with your dilemma, WasteofTaxMoney. We yahoos in cyberspace can offer you advice in a very cavalier fashion, because we have nothing at stake. You are the one with something at risk. In the end, you need to do what's comfortable for you.

Good luck,

DH

Love it

Edited by Freddy01
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I would say not to give it. That's total crap. And irrelevant to the settlement or the case. Both the case and a possible settlement should be considered based on evidence presented, not your income.

A court order to produce evidence? Nonsense. Have you filed a motion to compel? In my opinion, your lawyer is being lazy.

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Yes, I agree with Admin, your lawyer is either being lazy or just playing the credit game well enough to convince you they are on your side. This is my opinion but I would NOT give them anything to bolster their side of the argument. The deck is already stacked against us enough in this debt scheme called the "fiat money system". Stick to your guns, don't give in.

I'm not a lawyer, just my two cents worth (about the amount the Federal Reserve pays for printing the monopoly money we call cash)

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I would say not to give it. That's total crap. And irrelevant to the settlement or the case. Both the case and a possible settlement should be considered based on evidence presented, not your income.

A court order to produce evidence? Nonsense. Have you filed a motion to compel? In my opinion, your lawyer is being lazy.

It's a court order for discovery of the doucments that they talked about in their pre-trial statement. My lawyer said that after the 28 days of mandated discovery that we can file a motion to compel. Then, that gives plaintiff another 10 days to produce the documents they claim they have. Does this sound right to you??

I'm not going to give my lawyer anything now. He claims that if they *DO* have something that the judge will accept as evidence that I could be out what they are suing me for plus court costs and legal fees, so better to just settle and be done with it. I thought that when they enter a judgement THEN they look at your financial status to see what you can afford....?? The JDB just can't hit you up for the whole amount upfront, right? I was under the impression that you settle afterwards once documents have been produced and the judge makes a decision..???

Grr....he's making me REALLY mad!

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It's a court order for discovery of the doucments that they talked about in their pre-trial statement. My lawyer said that after the 28 days of mandated discovery that we can file a motion to compel. Then, that gives plaintiff another 10 days to produce the documents they claim they have. Does this sound right to you??

I'm not going to give my lawyer anything now. He claims that if they *DO* have something that the judge will accept as evidence that I could be out what they are suing me for plus court costs and legal fees, so better to just settle and be done with it. I thought that when they enter a judgement THEN they look at your financial status to see what you can afford....?? The JDB just can't hit you up for the whole amount upfront, right? I was under the impression that you settle afterwards once documents have been produced and the judge makes a decision..???

Grr....he's making me REALLY mad!

Only you can make this choice. I don't think anyone would want to get between you and your attorney (we don't have that right) I quess the question why would you settle or be ask to settle, put pressure on you to settle when nothing has been produce, or when the court has to force discovery to produce. It just seems like the lawyer is not doing a good job of lawyering. Be Blessed!

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Try looking up and researching your state rules for either small claim or civil procudres. These are used to govern how cases are to proceed through your court system and give you a better handle on whats going on, that way you can see for yourself what should be going on. Be Blessed!

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It's a court order for discovery of the doucments that they talked about in their pre-trial statement. My lawyer said that after the 28 days of mandated discovery that we can file a motion to compel. Then, that gives plaintiff another 10 days to produce the documents they claim they have. Does this sound right to you??

I'm not going to give my lawyer anything now. He claims that if they *DO* have something that the judge will accept as evidence that I could be out what they are suing me for plus court costs and legal fees, so better to just settle and be done with it. I thought that when they enter a judgement THEN they look at your financial status to see what you can afford....?? The JDB just can't hit you up for the whole amount upfront, right? I was under the impression that you settle afterwards once documents have been produced and the judge makes a decision..???

Grr....he's making me REALLY mad!

I'm not impressed with your Attorney. Make them produce an authenticated bill of sale naming your specific account, with your name, with the authenticated amount from the original creditor (I don't care if the debt has been sold over and over) each ownership must be authenticated, until then you don't have sufficient knowledge to be compelled to produce anything. They must produce evidence and I'm tired of jdb's and on occasion original creditors filing suit with no evidence hunting for a default judgment and then when challenged requesting delays or in the end having no evidence to justify the lawsuit. I hope you aren't paying your Attorney much money because I'd have fired them long ago.

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I'm not impressed with your Attorney. Make them produce an authenticated bill of sale naming your specific account, with your name, with the authenticated amount from the original creditor (I don't care if the debt has been sold over and over) each ownership must be authenticated, until then you don't have sufficient knowledge to be compelled to produce anything. They must produce evidence and I'm tired of jdb's and on occasion original creditors filing suit with no evidence hunting for a default judgment and then when challenged requesting delays or in the end having no evidence to justify the lawsuit. I hope you aren't paying your Attorney much money because I'd have fired them long ago.

I'm not either Massive. If I could take some time to find a new lawyer now, I would, but I don't think I have the time to do that now...?

It sounds like I should tell my lawyer that I will not give them anything until they produce something. To me, it sounds like they have zero evidence. Why else would they want to try and settle so quickly, right??

And, JDB lawyer keeps saying that she has not been able to get a hold of anyone at Palisades for them to "make a choice". It's really starting to sound like BS to me.

I think I'm going to take my chances and wait it out. Maybe not even call my lawyer until he calls me....??? Keep HIM waiting...??? Knowing him, he prob won't even call me until the 28 days of discovery are up.

Opinions??? That way, if the JDB lawyer calls him, he has so answers -- just like Palisades has had no answers for her...! Time to let THEM sweat it out!!

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admin already said it the best, imo. your income/asset information is irrelevant to the issue until AFTER a judgment is rendered, not before.

your attorney has an obligation to pass the plaintiff's offer/request to you, give his advice, and then let you make the decision. to that extent, he is doing his job, even though your instinct tells you his advice is questionable.

IMO, there's a reason why people have instincts.

There's also no reason to make your attorney wait; YOU are paying HIM for a service. He's your gimp, not the other way around. When you call him with your decision, might be a good time to remind him of your position regarding your case and what your expectations of his representation on your behalf are. Be professional, but firm. Maybe he's being watery and indecisive about it because you're being watery and indecisive; so decide what you want (fight or settle), then communicate that to him, and stick to it.

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I agree with tokyogp.

Call your attorney and tell him that you have decided not to disclose that information at this time.

Keep the communications open with your attorney. Even though you may choose to disagree with his advise on this issue, he is still representing you in the case and you want to have a good relationship with him.

I looked at the other thread and this one. If I understand, you have not presented a settlement offer, you are just waiting for one from them?

If that is the case and you are interested in a settlement, make them an offer instead of waiting. Tell your lawyer to present an offer instead of your financials. And "lowball" on the offer, because they will likely counter-offer. Or wait out the discovery period and see if they can produce anything.

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I don't give them any information on income or expenses. Other than that my client is broke. Even if they submit the request for income or expense information prior to a judgment it is not revevant and I am objecting to it.

I have noticed a rather rapid increase of young and inept lawyers entering the consumer fields. My background is as a civil trial lawyer. Apparently I have different standards.

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If the jdb has not provided you with the requested information, then I suggest that you file a motion to dismiss on the basis that you have been denied due process. NO Proof...no case or no documented claim upon which relief should be granted.

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