To anyone being garnished in PA

[jq26]

I spent a full day brushing up on PA civil procedure. It appears that after 2007, the first $10,000 of any bank account that receives regular deposits of exempt funds is exempt from levy.

In other words, from the way the rule is promulgated, if you are electronically receiving $200/month in SSI into your account, and you have $9,000 just sitting there, the full $9,000 is exempt from levy. Even when it is obvious that the funds are not derived from SSI, the account may not be touched.

Check out Rule 3111.1.

[Guest usctrojanalum]

Wow, PA makes it really easy for people to be deadbeats. If you have $9,800 of monies that are not exempt in your account and you are getting money judgments against you something is seriously wrong. NY's exemption is $1700 or $2500 depending on whether or not the account is joint, seems much more reasonable.

[jq26]

I don't disagree with you. PA doesn't allow wage garnishment either. Just spreading the word. I'm on the other side of this one right now. I have a client with a handful of small judgments. I'm trying to go after these people and extract payment. In PA it is expensive and full of landmines. Tenancy by the entirety presumptions are robust in PA, no wage garnishment (with a few exceptions), and this monstrous $10,000 exemption on any account with recurring deposits of state or federal exempt funds.

Getting a judgment is only 50% of the work. The other half is actually trying to collect. Judgments in PA are good for five years and must be revived for an additional five years before being valid. That also costs the judgment creditor money. The maximum time period a judgment may be valid for is 20 years.

[Randall948]

The thing Im wondering here (and no one has been able to definitively answer me on this) is if there is no wage garnishment for civil debt in PA and the person in question here was getting wages (instead of in this example SSI income) it seems logical to me that the account would also qualify for the exemption. After all the funds are exempt (wages) by state law, not federal but nonetheless exempt.

Is this something that could be useful to me in my upcoming legal situations?

In S.C. if you dont claim a homestead (I dont) then around $5350 in "cash and liquid assets" is exempt from levy/attatchment/BK.

So theoretically I could have this amount in my acct and it would be untouchable?

Keep in mind I trust NO one, expecially not banks so Im pulling my money out cash as fast as its deposited in case of a bank levy but shouldn't a bank in a non garnishment state refuse a levy order on accounts that get exempt funds?

[jq26]

The thing Im wondering here (and no one has been able to definitively answer me on this) is if there is no wage garnishment for civil debt in PA and the person in question here was getting wages (instead of in this example SSI income) it seems logical to me that the account would also qualify for the exemption. After all the funds are exempt (wages) by state law, not federal but nonetheless exempt.

I thought about that, but then I dropped it because I think PA law states specifically that wages are no longer considered wages when despoited into an account.

And if it were true that all deposited wages were exempt, then the $10k limit lacks any practical meaning because the entire account would be exempt. And why would a state allow for the levy of any and all property aside from $400, tools of the trade, and a bible (PA exemptions), but then exempt all liquid assets (cash) derived from those wages? All property is more or less derived from wages.

So I think the evidence is that the $10k cap is more or less to protect certain types of income and to stop the Social Security grabbing that was going on for years. I know collectors personally who would wait until the day after SS would deposit, then they'd pull the plug on their accounts.

[Randall948]

yeah its just interesting because IF the exempt funds (wages) automatically become non exempt (Savings?) the nanosecond they are deposited then if one has to have direct deposit in his wages (like me my company refuses to "cut a check" then in reality the wages are NOT exempt.

It sort of forces someone who is taking a Judgment defensive position (like me) to go pull out their cash the second it hits the bank to protect it from levy.

It also begs the question if I do pull it out and some pushy judge decides he wants to make me turn it over to a collector do I do it despite knowing my exemptions? I mean, I have 2 laws that say the funds are exempt. No less than 2 state statutes protecting from wage garnishment and the aforementioned statute on liquid asset exemptions for non "homesteaders" in addition I have a wildcard exemption of I think same amount that I can use to exempt what I please.

So with all these things Im wondering if some judge with a less than stellar grasp of the law (and I'm beginning to think pretty much all city/county level judges might qualify here) might think he has the legal right to take my property that is exempt on multiple levels.

I hope we dont find out but I suspect we might.

[jq26]

You have to file for release of the funds if you are garnished. You are granted a hearing within a few days.

You are pretty much safe if it is cash. If the sheriff comes to your home, they can make an inventory of your belongings, but unless you leave a stack of cash on an end table, you shouldn't have an issue.

[jq26]

It also begs the question if I do pull it out and some pushy judge decides he wants to make me turn it over to a collector do I do it despite knowing my exemptions?

What I was getting at with my previous post was that there are usually two ways they get to your funds. Garnishment and levy. The former is when the bank gets sent an order to turnover any property belonging to you and the latter is when the sheriff arrives at your home and tags your stuff for auction and seizure.

I doubt a judge will say "turn over those funds you just withdrew from your account" because it doesn't fit into ordinary post-judgment procedure.

[Randall948]

Thats kind of what I was thinking. Im at the razor's edge of my states exemptions in wild card, personal belongings, vehicle. The whole shebang. So im pretty safe IF the judge plays by what the statutes actually say. If its a cowboy or an idiot cowboy judge then I'll prolly have to just push the BK button and get him out of the picture with the automatic stay. Will be a shame but Ill certainly do it before I let a judge/magistrate that doesnt know or care what the law says take my things illegally.

Say what you will about bankruptcy judges or greedy bankruptcy trustees that are looking for commission from filers at least they know what the law actually says.

[Randall948]

"but unless you leave a stack of cash on an end table, you shouldn't have an issue"

This is sort of the crux of my dilemma though. I probably WILL have a large stash of cash in the house somewhere (probably a safe) since I do not trust funds in a bank while im seeing how the lawsuits play out.

Only thing Is I do not THINK they are allowed to force entry to your home here without a warrant. No one can tell me for sure but an officer friend of mine says he was nearly 100% sure that you could just tell them you dont give them permission to enter and that was that unless they get a warrant.

Who knows, I guess Ill just have to plan for every eventuality and see which one Im faced with.

[donqII]

I thought about that, but then I dropped it because I think PA law states specifically that wages are no longer considered wages when despoited into an account.

And if it were true that all deposited wages were exempt, then the $10k limit lacks any practical meaning because the entire account would be exempt. And why would a state allow for the levy of any and all property aside from $400, tools of the trade, and a bible (PA exemptions), but then exempt all liquid assets (cash) derived from those wages? All property is more or less derived from wages.

So I think the evidence is that the $10k cap is more or less to protect certain types of income and to stop the Social Security grabbing that was going on for years. I know collectors personally who would wait until the day after SS would deposit, then they'd pull the plug on their accounts.

What about cars in Pa.? Are they exempt?

[jq26]

dongII- there is NO exemption on vehicles in Pennsylvania.

Bibles & schoolbooks

42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 8124 (a)(2)

Clothing

42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 8124 (a)(1)

Military uniforms & accoutrements

51 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 4103

42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 8124 (a)(4)

Sewing machines

42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. ? 8124 (a)(3)

Wildcard: $300 of any property, including cash, real property, securities, or proceeds from sale of exempt property

42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 8123

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/231/chapter3000/s3123.1.html

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/judiciary-and-judicial-procedure/00.081.021.000.html

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/judiciary-and-judicial-procedure/00.081.023.000.html

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/judiciary-and-judicial-procedure/00.081.024.000.html

Randall948-

Rule 3127. Right of sheriff to break and enter.

The sheriff, after having levied upon or attached any personal property, may enter the place or building in which the goods are contained either peaceably or by breaking in by force, for the purpose of taking manual possession of or selling the property levied upon or attached. No bond shall be required of the plaintiff by the sheriff.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/231/chapter3000/s3127.html

Although I have to say that in my limited experience, the sheriff/constable will walk over the property around the outside of the swelling. They may ask you if they can come into your home. If you say no, they typically look in the windows and take pictures to take inventory of all the items they can see that have value. But it appears the sheriff has the right to enter at will.

[donqII]

dongII- there is NO exemption on vehicles in Pennsylvania.

Bibles & schoolbooks

42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 8124 (a)(2)

Clothing

42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 8124 (a)(1)

Military uniforms & accoutrements

51 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 4103

42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 8124 (a)(4)

Sewing machines

42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. ? 8124 (a)(3)

Wildcard: $300 of any property, including cash, real property, securities, or proceeds from sale of exempt property

42 Pa. Cons. Stat. Ann. § 8123

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/231/chapter3000/s3123.1.html

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/judiciary-and-judicial-procedure/00.081.021.000.html

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/judiciary-and-judicial-procedure/00.081.023.000.html

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/judiciary-and-judicial-procedure/00.081.024.000.html

Randall948-

Rule 3127. Right of sheriff to break and enter.

The sheriff, after having levied upon or attached any personal property, may enter the place or building in which the goods are contained either peaceably or by breaking in by force, for the purpose of taking manual possession of or selling the property levied upon or attached. No bond shall be required of the plaintiff by the sheriff.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/231/chapter3000/s3127.html

Although I have to say that in my limited experience, the sheriff/constable will walk over the property around the outside of the swelling. They may ask you if they can come into your home. If you say no, they typically look in the windows and take pictures to take inventory of all the items they can see that have value. But it appears the sheriff has the right to enter at will.

And what if you live with a parent.

The house is theirs/

You have no personal property, other then a car that is

the only form of trasnportation as there is no public nearby.

And your investments are worth next to nothing because you liquidated

most everything after 911 , as a self employed person, to meet the monthly obligations over the years and the economy has since wiped you out.

Would they take your car?

[jq26]

And what if you live with a parent.

The house is theirs/

You have no personal property, other then a car that is

the only form of trasnportation as there is no public nearby.

And your investments are worth next to nothing because you liquidated

most everything after 911 , as a self employed person, to meet the monthly obligations over the years and the economy has since wiped you out.

Would they take your car?

Without a doubt YES. And they may even levy your parents vehicles and personal belongings too and then make your parents file an objection to have them released from the seizure. That is exactly what happened to my younger brother and mother two years ago in Montgomery County, PA.