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Wording of Sec. 809 (b)


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Hi, I want to ask lawyers of this. I plan on going to civil claims on the matter with a debt collector and wanted to know. Wouldn't a computer generated print out of the debt be considered sufficient under the Section 809 (B). The section states:

If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector."

I got a computer generated reply for my DV that showed the OC, my name and the amount. How can I argue that this is not enough when Sec 809(B) seems to say that would be. Thanks

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Hi, I want to ask lawyers of this. I plan on going to civil claims on the matter with a debt collector and wanted to know. Wouldn't a computer generated print out of the debt be considered sufficient under the Section 809 (B). The section states:

If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector."

I got a computer generated reply for my DV that showed the OC, my name and the amount. How can I argue that this is not enough when Sec 809(B) seems to say that would be. Thanks

Because anything coming from a computer is only as good as the person putting the information into it.

As you read these boards you will hear of people whio have gotten years worth of statements sent that are supposed DVs but the catch is that the

address on some of the earlier statements is incorrect because the persons current address was used and they were not living there at that time.

Computer generated stuff should not be considered at actual proof.

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I got a computer generated reply for my DV that showed the OC, my name and the amount. How can I argue that this is not enough when Sec 809(B) seems to say that would be. Thanks

I'm not a lawyer, but:

After you work through all the commas and "or's", this paragraph is talking about three things:

1. Verification of the debt

2. Copy of a judgment

3. Name and address of the original creditor

In most cases, we are not talking about a judgment (number 2), and that leaves numbers 1 and 3.

Sometimes, posters here will say that sending the name and address of the original creditor (number 3) satisfies the collectors obligation. But that is only true if your DV letter is "careless," or unspecific.

In my DV letters I clearly state that I am disputing the debt, requesting verification of the debt, and requesting the name and address of the original creditor. Now they owe me two things (numbers 1 and 3).

I further go on to say that verification of the debt is to include:

1. a copy of the alleged agreement, signed by me,

2. a copy of the bill of sale wherein they purchased the alleged debt (if it's a JDB)

3. a complete accounting of the amount they are claiming.

Now, this may be well beyond what they are "required" to produce, but it is what I need to evaluate the validity of their claim.

Beyond that, the FTC has produced opinion papers, where they emphasize this wording from 809(B): "until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt". They go on to say that "obtains" means the collector must get the verification information from the original creditor, and not just re-transmit information already in the collector's possession.

Regards,

DH

PS Here is the link to the letter I was referring to: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/wollman.htm

Here is the link to all the FTC opinion letters: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters.shtm

Edited by debtorshusband
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Guest usctrojanalum

if it is the collectors own computer generated statement with OC, your name and amount - it is probably not enough, however i do not know how successful a lawsuit would be on that cause of action only. If the collector gets a copy of a billing statement that was mailed to you, that more than satifies DV no matter how you word your letter to them.

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Pay special attention to the Wollman letter that Debtorshusband gave a link for. Even if collectors send everything else, they never send an affidavit from the creditor which states that the validation was sent in response to a dv request from you.

You can demand that it be that specific because it is written that specific in the FDCPA and the FTC "Wollman" opinion letter. Otherwise, how would you know that the collector did not have that printout in their file set aside for when you do ask for validation? Most JDB's do just this.

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Thank you all for your input. I have looked at the letter http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa...rs/wollman.htm. I guess that would further detail the specifics of my request. Another thing I'm confused with is the wording of validation and verification. I asked for validation when sending out the DV. Would this be an issue in a legal case?

Also note that I did request the following information in my DV:

Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;

Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;

Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account

Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state

Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent

Among other things. I plan to bring the court the document containing Sec 809b and the letter to further support my case. Sound good?

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According the Chaudry case and what you have posted, the validation itself is sufficient. The collector is only required to confirm with its client that the amount of the debt is correct. Validation is basically intended for the collector checking with its client to see if they are actually dunning the correct debtor, that they have not gotten the debt confused with another debtor - not to prove that the debt itself is valid.

Here is what the Chaudhry court said:

On Count III, the district court held that Gallerizzo was not "re- quired to provide the degree of detail that was contained in the time sheets" and that Defendants' actions in redacting the legal fees was proper. The court ruled that "[v]erification only requires a debt collec- tor to confirm with his client that a particular amount is actually being claimed, not to vouch for the validity of the underlying debt." For the same reasons stated above in support of the court's ruling on Count II, we agree with the court's determination on Count III.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-4th-circuit/1022070.html

So, I would not focus on the collector establishing the debt rather, I would point out that there is not independent verification that the collector did obtain this validation from the creditor. There would need to be an affidavit proffered from the OC stating that the OC sent validation to the collector in response to the request for DV from the consumer.

Really, how does anyone know where a computer generated account sheet, or even the last statement of account, comes from. These items are generally sold with a debt to a central clearing house for debts. The JDB's don't send this in their dunning letter because they will wait to see if the consumer asks for validation. If the consumer asks, they send it. If they don't, they use it for evidence in their claim. If the consumer asks for validation after the claim is filed, it is usually too late for validation and the collector does not need to send anything.

Edited by Downto0
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