chiquita55

CAN CREDITOR TAKE YOUR CAR ....

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Selling the vehicle is not an issue. The discussion above was not about selling it. It was about hiding the asset by having a relative put a (fake) "lien" on the car. It is considered fraudulent conveyance if you transfer assets at less than fair value for the purpose of keeping the asset out of the hands of the creditor. This is not an issue if the conveyance was prior to any lawsuit but in this case the OP was served already.

If you sell the vehicle - no issue at all. There is no issue to sell assets to pay debts.

Yes, most people keep their vehicle in a BK when the vehicle equity is within (or close to) the exemption amount. Some people do obtain a legitimate loan on the vehicle to keep it within or close to the exemption amount. CA has extremely large exemption amounts.

The point is, the OP came here to find possible solutions to a very real problem not to get into further hot water. :shock:

No, it isn't.

Yes, it is. Denita is one of the most intelligent contributors on this forum, I'd listen to her. If you do not believe us, google "fraudulent conveyance"

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This would be a perfect time to use the "arbitration" method against crap one. Read up on it in the Arbitration section. If you elect arbitration, and they decide not to play, they're out of luck. If they do their research, and see the only asset they might get is a ten year old car, they'll probably walk away.

Worth a shot...

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Thank you USC...unfortunately my knowledge comes from experience :):wink:

The CA exemptions can be found here: http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/laws/

The BK exemptions are the same as the CA code allows for Exemptions for Enforcement of Judgements. You can see the entire exemption amount under this code here: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/exemptions.pdf

The part for the vehicle is below, but I suggest you go to the link above to see if there are any other provisions that might apply to you. I am not an attorney so none of this is legal advice and most of my experience is in Fl only. You may want to see an attorney for help.

Code Civ. Proc. Section Type of Property Amount of Exemption

704.010

Motor vehicle (any combination of aggregate

equity, proceeds of execution sale, and

proceeds of insurance or other indemnification

for loss, damage, or destruction) $ 2,725

And under the code for 703.140(B) the amount you can exempt in a vehicle is $3,525

And why I said the exemptions are large is because where I am (FL) only allows $1000. CA has much larger exemptions than most states do and they have more types of exemptions, some of which can be applied to any type of asset.

Edited by Denita

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Thank you Denita. I will read up on what you have posted. This is what I am trying to find out. If I can add another exemption amount to the car amount since I don't need any other exemption $$. I do have the mobile home tho so I need to use the homestead exemption.

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AZ. has $5000 per person/$10.000 per couple, for vehicles($10,000 per person for handicapped) If you have a spouse you can double your exemption for the same vehicle

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Why so fearful loosing a ten-year old car? Almost any repair would be over and above value of the car unless it’s some kind of boutique model. Sometimes you gotta bend in order to win. This may be such a moment.

Overall my observations are lawyers and creditors seldom seize property/assets in NY on low/middle income people even though its allowed by law. The legal community doesn’t want to deal with all the red tape and man-hours associated with property seizures to satisfy a judgment unless you’re dealing beaucoup de bucks. They want CASH. Your cash income is protected.

Also, Don't let your paranoia get the better of you. :-)

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THINGS NEEDED TO PROTECT THE HEALTH OF YOU OR YOUR FAMILY.

Could you argue that you are disabled (I am under social security) and that you need the car to get to doctor appointments? Even government aid for medicaid etc lets you have 1 car to get to doctor appts that they don't count...

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when your only real possession is owning a 10 year old car, it does make you paranoid and fearful. Fear makes you think of any and all possible actions of losing your vehicle. Many people would think that giving up a 10 year old vehicle as no big deal, but I can understand being afraid of losing it & asking for any advise of what you can/could possibly do to prevent it.

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when your only real possession is owning a 10 year old car, it does make you paranoid and fearful. Fear makes you think of any and all possible actions of losing your vehicle. Many people would think that giving up a 10 year old vehicle as no big deal, but I can understand being afraid of losing it & asking for any advise of what you can/could possibly do to prevent it.

You got a point. I suppose the real test is if you can survive without_______.

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ruuttie, I need to live in AZ. Then I would be ok!

Templar, even tho the car is 10 years old it has only 30,000 miles on it and is in excellent condition. Being disabled and living on a VERY small disability check makes it nearly impossible to even get a loan on another car and I certainly cannot afford to go buy a decent car. I bought this car 10 years ago and paid cash for it from $$ I received from social security back pay and another lawsuit suing Prudential. I own the car free and clear and I would never get a used car as good as this. What kind of car could you get for $2700????

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once you lose it, your credit is so bad that you cannot buy another one and you probably cannot afford to buy another one, all it does is keep adding fear and another financial problem to your scenerio. A bk attorney told me that you can get a loan for the collateral of the vehicle, and live on the money, even from relative, you just would need a paper trail for the spending of it. my intent is to file in a few months, but things change everyday.I am not defrauding anyone by intending to file, but if circumstances change financially,

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Selling the vehicle is not an issue. The discussion above was not about selling it. It was about hiding the asset by having a relative put a (fake) "lien" on the car. It is considered fraudulent conveyance if you transfer assets at less than fair value for the purpose of keeping the asset out of the hands of the creditor. This is not an issue if the conveyance was prior to any lawsuit but in this case the OP was served already.

If you sell the vehicle - no issue at all. There is no issue to sell assets to pay debts.

Yes, most people keep their vehicle in a BK when the vehicle equity is within (or close to) the exemption amount. Some people do obtain a legitimate loan on the vehicle to keep it within or close to the exemption amount. CA has extremely large exemption amounts.

The point is, the OP came here to find possible solutions to a very real problem not to get into further hot water. :shock:

"Hiding" verses "protecting". If a vehicle is sold (or wedding ring, or computer, or family jewels) prior to the commencement of a lawsuit, the burden to prove "fraud" would be huge. And involve, most likely, far more than a creditor would be interested in pursuing. Imagine the dominoes that would have to fall. The court system, the prosecutor, a very costly trial, and the "burden of proof". All for a car?

No "hot water", but just a look at all angles and the gray areas. The point is to examine an issue, and an ensuing discussion may clarify and help to separate wheat from chaff. What is reasonable? What is prudent? What is "law" is seldom black and white.

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"Hiding" verses "protecting". If a vehicle is sold (or wedding ring, or computer, or family jewels) prior to the commencement of a lawsuit, the burden to prove "fraud" would be huge. And involve, most likely, far more than a creditor would be interested in pursuing. Imagine the dominoes that would have to fall. The court system, the prosecutor, a very costly trial, and the "burden of proof". All for a car?

No "hot water", but just a look at all angles and the gray areas. The point is to examine an issue, and an ensuing discussion may clarify and help to separate wheat from chaff. What is reasonable? What is prudent? What is "law" is seldom black and white.

I agree with you. Especially with your qualifier above: "prior to the commencement of a lawsuit". I believe the OP has been served already so the 'prior' part is not applicable.

I also think that all the 'angles and gray areas' need to be examined and the OP needs to protect his/herself first (not the creditor). I'm just saying be careful and do it within the confines of the rules/laws so you win. My point is that it would be terrible to do something in anticipation of protecting yourself and then find out that your exposure is actually greater because of some obscure thing you didn't know about. :-(

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the burden to prove "fraud" would be huge. And involve, most likely, far more than a creditor would be interested in pursuing. Imagine the dominoes that would have to fall. The court system, the prosecutor, a very costly trial, and the "burden of proof". All for a car?

It's actually not as involved as you think, to prove a fraudulent conveyance occurred they would just need to get a title report which takes about 13 seconds via the internet.

In one of our matrimonial cases like about 4 years ago now, a man transferred his house into his mothers name after he was served with a divorce summons and we had the transaction reversed because it was a fraudulent transfer. All we had to do was obtain a copy of the title report and deed to prove it, not much effort at all.

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Templar, unfortuantely the car is still worth between 8,000 and 10,000+ dollars even on that site and the cars showing have 10 times the mileage of mine. The car is definitely way over the exemption amount. Unless I am allowed to use something else toward the exemption I am fried. I should sell the car and fix up something in the house that needs fixing and buy an old junk heap I guess. I sure hope I can get some free advice from some lawyer on Monday. Or I could file Bankruptcy but maybe they would sell it too I suppose. Honda's are expensive and they retain alot of value....

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Guys, that is bordering on fraud.
If you transfer the car for less than fmv after you are sued, it is an open and shut case of fraudulent transfer. I'm not reading 41 postings, so someone may have laid this out. Think about it- if it were not, then no defendant would ever get compensated. Shoot someone? Transfer your car and home to your parents. Run someone over DUI? Empty your accounts the next morning and put them in your brother's name.

Obviously this isn't the way of the world. These transactions are EASILY reversed. They'll even ask you these types of questions in debtor's interogatories.

A bk is much more likely if you need to protect the vehicle and you cannot pay the judgment creditor.

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I have retained an attorney for bk 7, they told me that I can get a loan, from a title loan company(10% per month x12 months=120% for a 12 month loan/legally) or get a loan from a friend and or relative, have legit loan documents drawn up, make sure that a lien is recorded with DMV, and be sure that the money is accounted for and spent for living expenses prior to filing. you can even use the money for paying for the vehicle payment before filing. The thing is, to make sure that you file before you pay any equity into the vehicle, of course you are still going to have the loan payments to pay after fileing, but you don't have to go out and buy another vehicle.

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It's actually not as involved as you think, to prove a fraudulent conveyance occurred they would just need to get a title report which takes about 13 seconds via the internet.

In one of our matrimonial cases like about 4 years ago now, a man transferred his house into his mothers name after he was served with a divorce summons and we had the transaction reversed because it was a fraudulent transfer. All we had to do was obtain a copy of the title report and deed to prove it, not much effort at all.

I am curious about your work sir. Are you a lawyer or accountant? :)++

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I know in KY that a vehicle that is valued at under like 2,500 is exempt from any garnishment proceedings, things that can be taken by judgement.

I think one should take proactive steps to protect your vehicle and other assets very early in the stream of things if you default on a debt. Even though I wasn't sued until November of 2010, I had taken the precaution of putting my vehicle into a relatives name something like two years ago, as soon as the collection calls started. At that time I didn't even know they needed to take the matter to court to get legal access to my bank account,etc. For two years I have kept only minumal money in a checking account to cover bills and I keep my savings somewhere secure and secret, but not at a bank.

I don't own a house or any other large assets so I can't advise there except to say that you need to start thinking about this stuff long before your sued, that way you can escape the kind of trouble that will come with making alterations after you are sued.

If you do the transfers and "hide" stuff a year or two or more before you are sued, they can't really say you did that just to avoid losing it after a judgement, well they could but it would be much more difficult.

True, doing what I have done to this point has all been for nothing and it appears like the JDB suing me has very few cards to play, but I do not regret preparing, and even if it is a minor inconvienece that might all be for nothing, it is better than getting zapped by the scum suckers.

You just need to think about stuff prior to all the stuff going down. Hell I have even taken to parking my auto out of sight of the courthouse, so the lawyer never sees me getting into a auto, in case it comes up later...lol...Way overboard, but you have to prepare for the worst.

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