Chapel Hill

8 Hour Keeper or Till Tap

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Does anyone know which is the better way to collect from a San Francisco business? Using a keeper or a till tap. It's a small neighborhood place, shoe repair, bake shop, dry cleaner, auto repair type place. Is there more money in this kind of business at the end of the week on Friday or at the beginning of the week on Mondays?

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I imagine that many people who trade with these kinds of businesses leave their shoes, dry cleaning, or other items intending to pick them up by the end of the week. My guess is they have more people picking up item at the end of the week, and thus would have more money going into the till on Friday and Saturday.

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I was able to make arrangements for the local sheriff's department to go out on the following Saturday. Pretty damn expensive but they will do it. It sucks to not know anyone who can give you a break. By the time I pay deputy OT a couple of times for Saturday keepers I will have paid the $1200 for a replacement suit. Might have just been easier to have kept driving to da city to have my suits cleaned. Much less drama.

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Sheriff's office sent me a check last week which showed up in today's mail. The 8 hour keeper was for sure the best way to go. Deputy and the civilian employee showed up. Collected judgment and associated fees last month and my check showed up today.

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Chapel, can you elaborate? Why the judgment and what fees ran? I have a handful of judgments right now and I'd like to get paid out as well. Any insight is appreciated. In my state, the sheriff will head out for roughly $150...seems your state bills per hour?

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Chapel, can you elaborate? Why the judgment and what fees ran? I have a handful of judgments right now and I'd like to get paid out as well. Any insight is appreciated. In my state, the sheriff will head out for roughly $150...seems your state bills per hour?

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I can't speak to the rural areas but in the metro areas of Northern California the local Sheriff's Departments usually have a fee schedule that reflects roughly $200 for an 8 hour keeper and roughly half that amount for a til tap.

Depending on the types of businesses or individuals and the amounts of each judgment you might want to consider sending the sheriff out with an order of attachment. Threatening to seize laptops and corporate cell phones is a strategy that seems to motivate payment. Another of course is to have your investigator or if you can just go out yourself, secure the vin of any vehicle you can find associated with the debtor. Then send over a letter telling the individual that you will have the sheriff seize and sell the vehicle associated with the VIN. Of course you need to know the laws of your state. Don't threaten to do something you can not legally do and that have no ability or intention of doing.

Good luck.

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JG you have judgments against active corporations? They are typically the easiest to collect from. My boss's buddy loaned 10k to a corporation and we collected it by doing what is called a "property execution." Our sheriff fees where I'm from is $40 for the execution, a $200 deposit and 5% of all monies collected.

The sheriff went to the place of business, posted a sign saying that nothing could be removed and took an inventory then set up a date to sell the stuff. A day before the sale, the debtor came up with 5k to postpone the sale 1 month. The sale is now scheduled for April 1st, and I'm sure the debtor will come up with the rest of the balance by then.

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I have three- one on an active corporation and two on individuals. Relatively small judgments. The problem is the process around here is onerous.

$150 for personal property levy and an absolute mountain of paperwork. And that's just to get started. A neighboring county hits you for $250 upfront. No refunds.

$53 for a writ of garnishment (bank, no wage garnishment allowed in PA). I spoke with the sheriff's office and they told me that this is the way to go if I want to get paid. The problem is what bank? Interrogatories cost another $10, but once you send them debtor's interrogs, there's no way anyone will keep nonexempt funds in an account, so the $63 is pissed away.

They say that +80% of judgments go uncollected. I see why.

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Hmm, maybe you can google the zipcode where the corporation is located and search for banking institutions within that town or city. Then you can try to send blanket information subpoena's to those banks to see if you get a hit.

Ask the bank such questions as - does the debtor maintain an account, is any money exempt, what is the average balance over the last 30 days, what is the balance as of the date of subpoena. Then if you get a hit back, you send the sheriff a writ of garnishment.

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Usctrojanalum, the counties where I live & work all border Philadelphia. There are probably 30 bank branches within walking distance of these individual's homes and the corporation.

The other complicating factor is that there are VERY strong tenancy by the entirety protections in PA. Therefore, any joint bank funds or joint property (personal, vehicle, real estate) is presumptively exempt. Then you throw in the prohibition of wage garnishment in PA and its a real barrier to collection. So a married judgment debtor can make $150k per year, have $50k in a joint bank account, have two jointly owned Mercedes with no loans on them, and own a jointly owned McMansion with no mortgage and STILL BE JUDGMENT PROOF. If you are not married or if the judgment is against both H&W, then totally different story.

And yet I still here that "consumers" are oppressed. I don't know what planet these people live on.

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They are not oppressed in PA that's for sure lol. Some States do not offer those same protections though. I remember there was a time in NY when a bank account could be frozen regardless of the balance. If you had $200 bucks and that was all you had that could be zapped away in a weekend. Exemptions on bank account money has increased though.

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Exemptions have increased in many places. In PA, not so much. But the underlying elephant in the room is that TBE property is exempt in TBE states. And there are a lot of TBE states....if you are unmarried, then I guess you aren't worthy of the same asset protection in the eyes of the law in TBE states.

So to give you an example of what I am talking about- wealthy housewife uses services of a local company. Local company bills, calls, etc. No response. Then sues, no show at court. With a default judgment against her for essentially stealing services (using them with no intent to pay), business cannot collect due to 5000 sq foot home, luxury vehicles, and likely bank accounts being TBE property. She probably won't get financing, but when your household income is likely north of $300k, who cares about that.

Another oppressed consumer. Maybe we need more regulation to beat back this evil corporation from taking advantage of her. :lol:

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Yeah that crazy, don't have that problem in NY either. If you have a joint account 50% of it belongs to one person 50% of it belongs to the other person. If you freeze a joint account, you could request all of the money to be taken out of it but 99% of the time you only will get 50%

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jq with a live judgment you have the ability to report the judgment on their credit report. Of course that requires that you have their ssn and dob. Can you do an OEX in PA? What resources can the court provide or is there a NOLO book which is specific to PA law? Obviously guys that take the time to win in court figure out the way to get their cash. You need to talk to more folks in your jurisdiction. You are not the first to win a judgment. You will not be the last to win a judgment.

You know where these jerks. Can you seize a vehicle if they own more than one? Clearly you should spend some time in a law library and/or talk to skip tracers or others in the business of collecting against judgments. While your jurisdiction may be expensive it can not be impossible to collect on your judgment. With regard to the fees those amounts should get tacked on to what is collected including interest so you're basically out the cash upfront but you will be made whole.

As I understand things you have a court order. A judgment to pay. What happens when a bastard does not comply with a court order? Can you go back in an file a motion for comtempt? Can you have a bench warrant issued? Can you conduct an OEX?

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You can't hold someone in contempt for not paying non payment on a judgment. JG's problems really are the State of PA, the exemptions are not even remotely close to reasonable as he describes them. There is a difference between offering consumers some protections and allowing them to be deadbeats.

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I live in a TBE state with strong presumptions. In other words, if you are married then even if property is mistitled as joint it is considered tenancy by the entirety, thus OFF LIMITS. And in PA, unless you are an aggrieved landlord or seeking child support, wage garnishment is OFF LIMITS.

Yes people seek judgments all the time. Look at unsecured creditors. And roughly 80% go uncollected. There are many ways to escape them. TBE & wage exemptions complicate things considerably, and for many they still have federal and SSI/SSD exemptions. And then there is always bankruptcy, which is how I protected my brother from a $1600 judgment a couple of years ago.

When you sue a corporation, they likely have assets to attach and they don't have exemptions. When you sue an individual, things gets complicated by the myriad of protections afforded them. It is apples and oranges, and it is entirely dependent on your state.

Edited by jq26

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You can't hold someone in contempt for not paying non payment on a judgment.

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I'd find if hard to believe that a court of competent jurisdiction wouldn't render a finding of contempt and even go to for as to jail an individual provided the circumstances were appropriate. Specifically, if jq sought the court's assistance in collecting the debt ie an OEX. In most places you ignor an OEX and a bench warrant is issued. Pay the fee and the local sheriff will pick the person up pursuant to the civil bench warrant.

So unless you're saying that PA law specifically prohibits OEXs that would be my first move following liening the real property. You may not be able to force the sale of the property but if you lien it the asset shouldn't be able to be sold without liquidation of the judgment.

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I live in a TBE state with strong presumptions. In other words, if you are married then even if property is mistitled as joint it is considered tenancy by the entirety, thus OFF LIMITS. And in PA, unless you are an aggrieved landlord or seeking child support, wage garnishment is OFF LIMITS.

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Lien the real property. You can't force a sale it sounds like but no financial instution that is federally insured will loan against the property without the lien being released.

Do an OEX to determine exactly which bank and what account is available to attach. A PA sheriff can execute against any account if you provide the court order and the account information.

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In PA, judgments automatically become a lien on any property owned in that county. The lien is attached. So it may get paid, who knows.

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So you have their property liened send em a letter to that effect. It's a simple reminder that they can not sell or refi without making you whole. That may motivate them to pay you.

Depending on the dollar value it might be worth your time to find an attorney who specializes in skip trace work. Your valid judgment entitles you to pry enough to get personal identifying information. Report the judgment on Experian, TU and Equifax.

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The judgment should automatically get reported. The data is extracted from the courthouses on a regular basis.

They're small judgments. Not worth it to go through asset recovery services. I can do whatever those companies can do (asset searches, etc.). The point is that the assets are exempt by law. If I try to seize a vehicle that is TBE property for payment of a judgment of one party, I've broken the law.

Maybe I'll send a letter. Anything more probably isn't worth the time to file.

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The judgment should automatically get reported. The data is extracted from the courthouses on a regular basis.

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Even if the judgment total $300 or less it's your money. Take someone to a ball game or dinner when you collect your cash. Actually that's a decent pair of cowboy boots so if you really can't think of a use for the cash, I'm a 10.5E width and I like my boots like my women, smooth and black.

What I was saying about both the letter and the reporting. You have a live judgment, don't threaten but do write a letter to the debtors informing them of your intent to secure their information and to report directly to the CRAs. Give them 5 to 7 days then go about the business of getting it done. That this might be done automatically really doesn't help you collect one bit. It might be done, it might not be done. For damn sure if you send a letter you will get someone attention. It is also a fact that if you do your due dilligence it WILL get reported NOT might get reported. Again, a huge difference in your ability albeit not necessarily your willingness to purchase me an inexpensive pair of Laredo's size 10.5E.

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I'm gonna cash the check from the sheriff tomorrow. I'm gonna file a satisfaction of judgment. My question is should I send a copy to each individual defendant. The sheriff went out and collected almost a grand with fees. I'm pretty sure they know the judgment is satisfied and stamps in california costs a pretty penny. I'm really not sure I can get er done given what USPS would want from me.

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