SingleDadJames

I WON! Went to trial and I won!

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No sense in stopping now.

PUT THE FINAL NAIL IN THE COFFEN (... sorry I can't spell, lol)

Go to the court house. There MIGHT be a document that you file when you have a judgement in your favor. That will kill it for sure. Also you JUST might be able to ask for a more definite answer/ruling from the judge.

Kill that Lawsuit. xdeadhorsex

I'd love to fill that coffin with concrete, put the final nail in it then dip it in a vat of acid!

I'm not sure if I should do much more with it or not. I'm a little worried they are going to refile, but it's not like I'm coming at them any nicer the second time around.

At trial the judge called it a judgment for the defendant, no cause of action. However on the verdict/judgment form it's marked as a dismissal for no cause of action. In the rules of civil procedure it mentions that an involuntary dismissal is an "adjudication on the merits". I'm not sure the judge will do any more because he warned me all along that it would be a dismissal without prejudice.

Since I was the prevailing party I wanted to file a bill of costs to get some of the money back I spent defending this. However I could not find any thing online or at the courthouse to help me determine which costs are taxable by the clerk. I did find a bill of costs handbook for federal court in MI and based on that it looks like I can't get ANY of my costs back. Federal District court guidelines for MI say I can't even get my travel expenses back as a witness the day of the trial since I was a party in the suit. I also can't get any service or mailing fees back unless it's related to a summons, or subpoena from what I can tell. All of the other postage costs I have to eat. One more reason for me NOT to send everything CMRRR at over $6 a pop the next time I go through this!

My main costs were a few copying fees, a bunch of black printer ink, mileage and postage costs. I can't find ANYTHING to help with a bill of costs for district court at the state level, but I'm assuming they'll follow those guidelines for, or similar to, federal district court in MI.

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Why are you worried about them refiling the action? you won after trial, it is over forever. This is what is called judgment for the defendant on the merits of the case, Res Judicata! If the file the case again you can slap both Midland and the attorneys office with FDCPA violations lawsuits. Did the judge give you a written decision by any chance? If not, was there a court stenographer present? Get the Court order or transcript for your own records if you can.

Well I wasn't sure because the judge mentioned a judgment for the defendant- no cause of action. However when I got a copy of the decision/verdict in the mail it is just a court form. It's on a form labeled judgment I believe, but it's not marked judgment. Instead it is marked as a dismissal with the dismissal box checked and under that with "no cause of action" checked.

In the rules of civil procedure I believe it does mention that an involuntary dismissal serves as "an adjudication on merits"...but I haven't exactly taken the time to determine what that actually means. I THOUGHT I read somewhere that that's basically like a judgment. I'm just confused as to the whole dismissal terminology.

There was no stenographer present.

One of the reasons I was intent on trying a directed verdict was trying to get the judge to render a judgment in my favor rather than having this die out at the end with a simple dismissal w/o prejudice. Then again what the heck do I know? :lol:

Edited by SingleDadJames
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CONGRATULATIONS Singledadjames!!! I've only just begun my battle with those bottom feeders. Waiting to see if if my Answer/Affirmative Defenses get's signed for by Ceritified Mail. They weren't there at first attempt. Your posts have inspired me!!!!

Thanks so much formerpara and good luck!

I can honestly say the hardest part for me was not letting them bully me and intimidate me. They bluffed and played chicken right up until the very end. There were many times family and friends urged me to just give up as well.

Stick to your guns!

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Great news and a great job by you. Only one question, why are you willing to settle for even a fraction of what they sued for, these goons have nothing legit to prove their claims, I wouldn't offer them squat.

I think pro se defendants I have read about on the boards seem to be overly courteous to the JDB lawyers, even after they have demostrated that they have no substantial proof to back up their lawsuit. I have resisted "making things personal" by succumbing to my urge to call these clowns suing me up and telling them how frivolous their claims are, but if one of these lawyers tried to get rude with me they would get it right back.

In the only appearence I have made in court on a motion to compel discovery, the warm body the goons suing me sent never attempted to make contact with me, in fact he came into the courtroom a few minutes before the judge did. I was prepared to interrupt him if he tried to locate me and talk to me with "save it, I have nothing to say until we get up there in front of the judge" if he did approach me.

It's one thing if the JDB actually has something that you think might be substantial, but maybe its just me but I am very angered by these clowns wasting my time and putting me to trouble when they have no proof to win in court. You said it yourself, these lawyers think pro se folks are idiots and easy wins for them, why show them any respect or kindness when they have no respect for you, your time, or your ability to defend yourself.

I really wasn't willing to settle. I just came to the realization that I had not filed any counterclaims and that most likely at best I'd get a dismissal w/o prejudice and they'd refile. I was ONLY pondering the possibility of offering them a $100 in exchange for a dismissal with prejudice. With that arrangement I could buy a guarantee I wouldn't have to deal with this crap again and wouldn't have to spend the next 72 hours or so before trial preparing myself and stressing out. I might have considered that a decent trade IF they agreed to it, but I knew there is no way they would. I was more or less throwing it out as an equally offensive settlement number to the one they kept expecting me to take.

Regarding your thoughts of not even discussing things with the attorney away from the judge, I can definitely see the concept behind that. In fact I've read that you should refuse to avoid saying anything stupid. I always did VERY little talking.

This judge expected us to go out in the hall before every pre-trial conference and attempt to have a meaningful conversation. I thought of refusing on multiple occasions and actually did on one occasion only to have the judge request we take a minute to try to discuss the matter. These little secret conversations out in the hall were actually invaluable to me. It gave me a great realization that 90% of the time the attorney actually had absolutely no idea what was going on. These little conversations helped give me confidence that they weren't even reading most of my responses and other paperwork. It was totally obvious. They generally show up and skim through the file right before the judge called us up.

I did have trouble not taking things personal...but being an @$$ was a waste of my time and energy. In fact these guys play the intimidation game so much I think they like if they get you all worked up. I noticed they seemed to get more angry the less they were able to intimidate me. I didn't kiss anyone's butt (other than the judge's) I wasn't overly polite...just respectful. On a couple of occasions I did cop a little attitude back but never for long in front of the judge. In the end being a d*ckhead in the hall or in the court wasn't going to accomplish much for me. It was so MUCH more satisfying watching these attorneys show up unprepared and watching them squirm when the judge called them on a mistake.

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SDJ:

It simply doesn't get any better than this. You beat Midland at its own game. Hope you have a most excellent weekend!

You should now check out whether, under MI law, you are the "prevailing party" entitled to your costs of suit. At the very least, you should be able to get your filing fee. When I googled the MI filing fee I saw that it might be as much as $150. If so, you should end up with a judgment in YOUR favor for $150. That should look pretty nice on the credit report!

Again, nice going.

Thanks so much calawyer!

I believe this did make me the prevailing party under the rules of civil procedure but I'm not sure I can actually recover any of my costs. There is no fee to file an answer to a complaint in MI. I did have a motion fee, and a bunch of postage fees etc.

Since I believe I was the prevailing party I wanted to file a bill of costs to get some of the money back I spent defending this. However I couldn't find anything online or at the courthouse to help me determine which costs are taxable by the clerk.

I DID find a bill of costs handbook for federal court in MI and based on that it looks like I can't get ANY of my costs back. Federal District court guidelines for MI say I can't even get my travel expenses back as a witness the day of the trial since I was a party in the suit. I also can't get any service or mailing fees back unless it's related to a summons, or subpoena from what I can tell. All of the other postage costs I have to eat. One more reason for me NOT to send everything CMRRR at over $6 a pop the next time I go through this!

My main costs were a few copying fees, a bunch of black printer ink, mileage and postage costs. I can't find ANYTHING to help with a bill of costs for district court at the state level, but I'm assuming they'll follow those guidelines for, or similar to, federal district court in MI.

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I'd love to fill that coffin with concrete, put the final nail in it then dip it in a vat of acid!

I'm not sure if I should do much more with it or not. I'm a little worried they are going to refile, but it's not like I'm coming at them any nicer the second time around.

At trial the judge called it a judgment for the defendant, no cause of action. However on the verdict/judgment form it's marked as a dismissal for no cause of action. In the rules of civil procedure it mentions that an involuntary dismissal is an "adjudication on the merits". I'm not sure the judge will do any more because he warned me all along that it would be a dismissal without prejudice.

Since I was the prevailing party I wanted to file a bill of costs to get some of the money back I spent defending this. However I could not find any thing online or at the courthouse to help me determine which costs are taxable by the clerk. I did find a bill of costs handbook for federal court in MI and based on that it looks like I can't get ANY of my costs back. Federal District court guidelines for MI say I can't even get my travel expenses back as a witness the day of the trial since I was a party in the suit. I also can't get any service or mailing fees back unless it's related to a summons, or subpoena from what I can tell. All of the other postage costs I have to eat. One more reason for me NOT to send everything CMRRR at over $6 a pop the next time I go through this!

My main costs were a few copying fees, a bunch of black printer ink, mileage and postage costs. I can't find ANYTHING to help with a bill of costs for district court at the state level, but I'm assuming they'll follow those guidelines for, or similar to, federal district court in MI.

Well I read your posts, this pretty much wraps it up.

None of it was necessary. The judge said something to the effect of, “The Defendant has already denied knowledge or recollection of everything along the way. He’s submitted a counter affidavit. You’ve had an opportunity to question the defendant and I believe his response was he doesn’t recall this card or this debt. Based on that I’m going to grant the Defendant’s Motion and I find no cause of action.”

Like you said they provided no evidence, it should be judgement for the Defendent.

Of course if the SOL hasn't run out, someone else might come in and sue you.

Since they have no evidence an MSJ on your part might get the judgement you need.

I won my case because there was NO EVIDENCE, which is was basically the situation that you were/are in too??

Did you get a chance to pick up the minutes of the trial?

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...... and at long last ..... here it is.

Congratulations and job well done !!

Your results were very similar to mine ...... except I didn't use the directed verdict motion. I still got a judgement in defendants favor - no cause of action.

Again, congratulations ..... you deserve it!!

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I AM SO PROUD OF YOU!!! :)

You have worked so long and hard and fought the good fight....!!

Since your first post, I have directed several Michigan posters to your threads to get information on Michigan law and I'm sure they owe you and all of your research quite a bit...

YOU'RE WONDERFUL AND CONGRATS!!!

RL

xdancex xdancex xdancex

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Well I read your posts, this pretty much wraps it up.

Like you said they provided no evidence, it should be judgement for the Defendent.

Of course if the SOL hasn't run out, someone else might come in and sue you.

Since they have no evidence an MSJ on your part might get the judgement you need.

I won my case because there was NO EVIDENCE, which is was basically the situation that you were/are in too??

Did you get a chance to pick up the minutes of the trial?

Yeah she never really entered anything into evidence, never introduced any exhibits or anything. I was prepared and was going to basically object to everything she entered as hearsay,unauthenticated, not subject to a hearsay exception etc. I'm pretty sure the judge knew it too.

I'm not sure how effective a motion for summary judgment would have been. I basically asked for the same thing in my opposition to their motion for summary disposition. In Michigan there is actually a rule that states under a motion for summary disposition the court can actually find in favor of the non-moving party and render judgment in favor of the opposing party. I laid out what I thought was a pretty compelling argument to support this and pointed out the Plaintiff had no admissible evidence for trial. I cited the court rule and some cases where this very thing had happened. I probably should have pushed the issue a little in oral arguments but I was honestly a little shocked the judge was denying their motion and giving them a verbal spanking in the process.

I have not inquired about getting a copy of the minutes of the trial. Is this basically just a summary outline of the trial?

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...... and at long last ..... here it is.

Congratulations and job well done !!

Your results were very similar to mine ...... except I didn't use the directed verdict motion. I still got a judgement in defendants favor - no cause of action.

Again, congratulations ..... you deserve it!!

I'm pretty sure things were going to go my way anyway. It's not really like the motion for a directed verdict made my case. It just made my job A LOT easier. It eliminated the need for me to talk much at all and decreased the opportunities for me to talk too much or make a fool of myself ;) There was really no point in me standing there and making any arguments or trying to enter any of my evidence. I figured making the court's job quick and easy was a good idea as well!

Thanks for the help along the way Savoir and congrats and job well done to you too!

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I AM SO PROUD OF YOU!!! :)

You have worked so long and hard and fought the good fight....!!

Since your first post, I have directed several Michigan posters to your threads to get information on Michigan law and I'm sure they owe you and all of your research quite a bit...

YOU'RE WONDERFUL AND CONGRATS!!!

RL

xdancex xdancex xdancex

Thanks so much RebelLady! I truly appreciate all the kind words, help, and encouragement along the way.

I'm glad to see you sent people to my posts. I've always tried to post and share here as much as possible. I want people to learn from my mistakes and my mini-victories. This site has been an unbelievable place to ask questions, learn, and just come and vent. I'm happy to give back in any way possible!

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SDJ!!!! You are the man! Good Job! Congradulations!!! :)%

Your story kept me from going to the grocery store to get something for breakfast

One thing I wanted to add for everyone else who read this:

The MAIN, if not the ONLY, reason these lawyers and Plaintiffs are willing to settle is because they KNOW there is a chance that they might LOSE, especially when they KNOW they don't have the necessary evidence in hand . So when she said that she wanted to settle because she knew the case could only go "ONE WAY..." - that really wasn't her way she was talking about, otherwise why settle in the last minute if you can get the ENTIRE judgment shortly after????

The other reason they might want to settle is to show the court that even your "willingness" to settle would be a some sort of "evidence" of your guilt. IMO just don't settle with these jerks! Period! After all there are plenty of stories on the Internet where people would get sued by another JDB after they settled the alleged debt with the first one - you just never know for sure 1) who you are settling with, 2) they won't sell the debt after the settlement to someone else

Now if only I can get my case where yours is.... oh well, I'll be dreaming of it for the next few months at least. Congrats! May be we'll drink some bear one day!.. :lagerlouts:::band::

Edited by MrPunch
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Hey, first of all , Congrats on your victory against those scumbags.

A question , can you please tell us how you defeated the account stated claim, what were your pleadings or affirmative defenses you used in your case against account stated.

He made some general arguments that basically said statements were sent, i didn't object, one of the statements showed a payment, and the plaintiff was entitled to judgment.
They then argued that they only need to show I had received statements and failed to object to them in a reasonable time and/or that they also need only show I used (or authorized use of) the card. They also argued that one of the alleged statements showed a payment made and they pointed out some caselaw that seemed to show a voluntary payment is enough to establish acceptance of the account balance alleged due and an account stated.

thanks for your help!

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SDJ!!!! You are the man! Good Job! Congradulations!!! :)%

Your story kept me from going to the grocery store to get something for breakfast

One thing I wanted to add for everyone else who read this:

The MAIN, if not the ONLY, reason these lawyers and Plaintiffs are willing to settle is because they KNOW there is a chance that they might LOSE, especially when they KNOW they don't have the necessary evidence in hand . So when she said that she wanted to settle because she knew the case could only go "ONE WAY..." - that really wasn't her way she was talking about, otherwise why settle in the last minute if you can get the ENTIRE judgment shortly after????

The other reason they might want to settle is to show the court that even your "willingness" to settle would be a some sort of "evidence" of your guilt. IMO just don't settle with these jerks! Period! After all there are plenty of stories on the Internet where people would get sued by another JDB after they settled the alleged debt with the first one - you just never know for sure 1) who you are settling with, 2) they won't sell the debt after the settlement to someone else

Now if only I can get my case where yours is.... oh well, I'll be dreaming of it for the next few months at least. Congrats! May be we'll drink some bear one day!.. :lagerlouts:::band::

Thanks MrPunch! I don't think the MAIN reason these attorneys want to settle is necessarily because they are worried about losing (at least in the beginning). I truly think most of these scumbags honestly think they can't possibly lose. They are most interested in a settlement because it's still easy money. They just bully and intimidate you into settling and it's the next easiest thing after a default judgment.

Honestly I did smell blood a little when she offered a 50% settlement 5 minutes before trial. I thought maybe she'd just dismiss when we got before the judge but it didn't happen. Then again NOTHING they did made any sense. I was never really willing to settle, but I would have considered it for around a hundred bucks or so before trial just to "buy" a dismissal without prejudice. That's a great point about the debt being sold off and being sued by someone else later...even WITH a dismissal with prejudice.

I may have considered a VERY low cost settlement for a dismissal with prejudice but I'm glad it never happened. It might be for the best now that I think about it. Although we consider a dismissal with prejudice to be "end of story" that's probably not always true. I guess nothing stops them from selling it off or handing it to another company to sue me later on. Although a dismissal w/ prejudice would prevent anyone from prevailing if they sue, you'd still have to go through the BS of answering the complaint to deal with it.

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Congrats :):):):):) I am very happy for you.

I just got papers today from plaintiff asking me to sign for a dismissel without prejudice. Kinda upset after all that research for case law and what not knowing it's not over since they can come after me again later or give it to another JDB. For me it's a neverending nightmare :(

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