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Curious on just what JDB is up to, can do, at this point.

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Was out for my evening walk last night and after about 10 days of having my case more or less out of my mind, it was on my mind again as I am planning on sending off my written attempt to confer on the unsatisfactory discovery anwsers the JDB sent me back, hopefully I'll get to it this week.

For those not familar, I was filed anwser 4 months ago, filed discovery requests after anwsering theirs 3 months ago and finally got those anwsers a little over a week ago. At no time, including in their anwsers, has the JDB sent me any documentation of any sort whatsoever. They have claimed they are still searching for it.

So what I am left in limbo wondering is, what the heck are they doing. I am starting to conclude that they have put about 1/1000's of the worry that i have about this case and aside from responding to my motions have really put little time and attention to my case.

I guess I am wondering, what is the likelyhood at this point, 4 months into this and with no documentation even though they have claimed in three responses to my motions over three months (2 MTD and one MTCD) that they are in the process of gathering proof, that they will provide relevant information. Keep in mind that this JDB bought the alleged debt from another JDB (they claim they didn't but I know for a fact they did) and the alleged account was opened about 10 years ago and charged off according to them 4 years ago. This is according to their scanty responses to my discovery, I know that info was probably among the little they got on a single piece of paper when they bought the account for pennies on the dollar.

Do these JDB's try and ever have success in contacting the OC and obtaining evidence to use at trial? What does that process entail, would they even still have that information to give to them if they wanted to. I think I read recently that if they were able to do that, that it would be expensive for them.

One thing I know for sure, they will never be able to produce anything saying they bought it from the OC as they claim, they are the second JDB to contact me about it. Not only did they not provide any proof in their discovery, but I think they will have a hard time explaining a few things that will be contradicted by any proof they can unearth, if they are even able to do that.

Overall I am pretty happy with my response and defense I have come forth with at this point and I am probably worrying more than I should be,I should be happy and encouraged by the fact that they seem to have not a leg to stand on and have displayed that they were pretty much going for the default on this one, and now have nothing to prove their claim. Its just very worrisome to wonder what is going on during these incessant delays I am just trying to get some insight on just what they are using this time to do.

Like I poindered last night, they probably have my file buried somewhere and aren't sweating it a bit. That is what makes me so angry with the apathy of the court relative to them seemingly not caring how long the JDB drags out the discovery process. They leave me in limbo with it being something hard to get off my mind while the JDB has it buried in a file cabinent somewhere.

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why wait for them?

its likely that they dont actually have the documents. IMO this means they never had the documents to begin with. and IMO (again) this means the attorney did not have any of the relevant documents when they filed the complaint. what does this mean? well basically that the attorney did not conduct a reasonable attorney review of the matter before filing the lawsuit. $1,000 against them. $1,000 also against the plaintiff suing you.

now, with respect to the discovery issues, hit them with a Request For Admissions. force them to either admit or deny certain facts. if they want to take their time? that's ok. but they can take their time as long as they respond within 30 days otherwise the request for admissions will be deemed admitted whether they like it or not. so hit them, and hit them hard.

so lets say that they did respond to your request for admissions but you dont like their responses? send them a quick letter saying their responses are insufficient. give them 10 days to make the correction. on the 11th day, either file a motion for summary judgment or file a motion to dismiss. (since you have answered teh complaint, im not sure if the motion to dismiss is available to you, but i am unfamiliar with your state's rules)

to me this is a sign that they are playing games and looking to strategize. do not let them!!! THEY filed the lawsuit against YOU. THEY should have all their documents together and ready to go. they are wasting your time and wasting judicial resources.

read this thread http://www.creditinfocenter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306885

They have claimed they are still searching for it.

sorry, this isn't good enough for me. you should jump all over this asap. get some more discovery going and find out what they DID have and what they DO have right now.

ask them:

1-waht documents do you currently have in your physical possession that substantiate any of the claims in the underlying complaint?

2-what documents did you have in your possession when the complaint was filed

3- do they have a bill of sale?

4- did they have a bill of sale?

5-have they at any point looked at the bill of sale?

6-have any documents relating to this action or relating to the underlying account been lost, stolen, destroyed or misplaced?


-admit that you do not have a bill of sale in your physical possession referencing the account that is the subject of this action

-admit that you do not have any documents in your physical posession referencing the account that is the subejct of this action

-admit that no documents relating to this action or the alleged account have been lost stolen destroyed or misplaced

....something like that. i can't articulate it 100% but that's a start (or continuation to your discovery actually). but its time to close the curtain on them, start setting them up for the final curtain call.

Edited by jackson212
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Or you could file a motion for summary judgement. Ask the court to rule based on the evidence presented. If there is no evidence of assignment, then the argument in your summary judgment would be dismissal for lack of standing.

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Ok here we are again, actually this 2nd attempt will probably be more concise and to the point. I can be longwinded sometimes,lol, all of the time, and can over-anaylize things too.

You better believe I covered all the bases in discovery, I spent 3 days forming and reforeming it to make it as perfect as I could. I took care of intoggs (25 or so),production of docs(6), and request to admit facts (6).

They denied all of my requests to admit facts. One of which was for them to admit that they could not produce a signed application. Even though I understand that a signed agreement is not necessary in these cases, the lawyers have responded to two motions and several times in the discovery that they did intend on providing a signed app. I am definatly going to bring this up later on if they don't actually do this, which from what I have read is almost unheard of in JDB cases. In the end they may not have to as people on here say, but I will at least ask them to explain why they said they would.

I asked them to admit they couldn't provide the cardholder agreement. Here is a big one I think I can nail them on later, I asked them to admit that they didn't obtain the account from the original creditor and they denied. I have letters from another JDB that had the thing prior to them so I know that one will come back to haunt them.

As I mentioned I am planning on sending out that letter within the next week as you advised. But I am not going to make a motion for the court date on the 11th day, my nature is to be offensive and aggressive, and I think I have been, but I really got a vibe from the judge that he really didn't care how long they took to get back, I think if I take it back in there that soon that he will probably decline to do anything different, I know the JDB is just going to say they are still in discovery.

So what I am going to do is this, I am just very mindful of not upsetting the judge with too many motions, I don't want to prejudice myself of p*ss the judge off in case this does go to trial.

Let me know what you think of this. I am planning on sending off that letter, I will go anwser by anwser identifying what needs to be amended. Then I will wait to see if they get back. If they don't, I am planning on letting a significant amount of time pass, say 45-60 days, all the while I plan send off 2 or 3 more communications by mail to the lawyers for the JDB informing them that I am still waiting for anwsers. I hate to wait that long, really hate to think of me having this on my mind that long, but by that time (late April early May) it will be 5, almost 6 months since I filed an anwser without them providing any proof (assuming they don't send anything to me by then).

If I then can't go into court and prevail in resolving this with a summary judgement or motion to dismiss, then I think a grown man is going to cry. In all seriousness, if I can't get the judge to see the reasonable nature of my motion to dismiss or judgement in my favor after I argue that it has been almost 6 months and they have provided no proof to back their claim (also attaching my multiple letters showing that I have tried to do all I can to prompt them to provide something and they have ignored me) if the judge doesn't agree that the case is without merit then I can be sure then that I have no option but to wait until the JDB lawyers themselves say discovery is over.

All I can say is that I am chomping at the bit to move past discovery, but I just don't think this judge will grant a dismissal at the end of the ten days, I just didn't get the vibe at the last hearing or I would try it.

I didn't include everything I had written from before, shame but honestly it is probably for the best, a bit more concise here, and it is still long...lol

Edited by fightemdontfold
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By the way, I did ask for a bill of sale too, they said they are still in the process of searching for it.

You know one thing that bothers me not only in their responses to the discovery, where they state it 11 times in their statement saying they are still looking for info on the account, but also it was something the lawyer with the bad haircut argued at the hearing for my motion to dismiss, they are using the fact that "they are not the original creditor" to justify them not being able to have ready access to the information needed and requested.

I have voiced my opinion on this issue many times before on here, but I don't see that as a relevant excuse to get more time, it doesn't matter,why should it matter if they are the OC or not, the JDB is the one that decided to sue claiming I owe on the account and they should be expected to back their claims with proof and if they don't have proof they shouldn't have filed the suit.

That is what really p**sed me off after thinking about it the days after the hearing, the judge didn't even ask or wonder aloud as to why they didn't have this readily available to them when filing the suit. Again, I think in this judge's mind, the discovery process is given a very liberal treatment and because of this I think I am going to have to go in their with an overwhelming argument that the plaintiff is totally unresponsive over a overwhelming amount of time.

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I asked them to admit they couldn't provide the cardholder agreement. Here is a big one I think I can nail them on later, I asked them to admit that they didn't obtain the account from the original creditor and they denied. I have letters from another JDB that had the thing prior to them so I know that one will come back to haunt them.

noooo....dont provide anything from your "collection." let THEM dig their own hole. so now that they have admitted here, set them up. ask for a bill of sale and/or proof of assignment and/or proof of title. (see UCC 9-406, see the thread i linked above) that will determine what kind of lied they are telling, you still dont need to provide anything at this point. they will hang themselves, all you have to do is feed them rope and more rope.

if they are taking their time, i would just drop them with more discovery. more request for admissions. let them do all the work, all you're gonna do is collect your evidence from them, sit in your corner and plot your offensive moves.

with their response, next move is to get the bill of sale, and yes, prepare to file a dispositive motion as lheart stated. what you need to determine is when does discovery end. if you want to wait until discovery is over, then boom drop your motion and go get em. when you file your motion, make sure you attach all your discovery demands and all their responses and any other letter you've sent them about discovery being late. get it all on record

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Don't worry, I am not providing any proof of the fact that it has been with another JDB. They asked me for records and such in their discovery, fishing for info and trying to make me make their case for them, and it was objection after objection I gave them in response.

The thing I am going to nail them on, is if, and I do mean IF, they do provide a bill of sale, it will have to be from the other JDB to them. They will have nothing saying they bought it from the OC as I know they bought it from the other JDB. When they do this I will then nail them and ask them to explain why they told me in discovery that they had not bought this from another JDB when they did. They then will have to show a chain of assignment all the way back to the OC.

I may not win on the points about them being untruthful in discovery, but it will go a long way I suppose in showing they have little to no intimate knowledge of the account. And then I get to sink my teeth into that BS affidavit of debt written by someone that did not have any relation with the OC while the account was active, I guess I am assuming that they will even bother with the affidavit, big assumption at this point.

It is going to really burst my bubble if I end up being wrong, but I think that this is really going to be a whopper for them to prove simply because they bought it from another JDB. From the conduct they have displayed so far, the accounts that I have read about JDB's almost never having anything to prove their claims when it has been sold multiple times is ringing true. I just wish I could get in front of a judge that took the discovery phase a bit more seriously and demanded that the JDB put up or shut up in a reasonable amount of time. I guess I will just roll with the punches and see what happens, I guess it could be worse, they could have sent back a box load of statements and substantial proof by now, I guess I should feel lucky that they seem not ready or able to produce anything at all.

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if i were you i would start preparing counterclaims or a new lawsuit against them for filing a lawsuit prior to having a valid bill of sale. what you want to do is get them to admit it, without them knowing that they are admitting it.

when they provide some random bill of sale that should be close to nailing them, for when they produce it they should be producing the full chain of title. anything less should be a smackdown. IF, and only IF they produce a bill of sale, then hit them with the lack of authentication from the OC. i doubt the oc will want to get involved (IMO)

anyway, good luck. i myself have a court hearing tomorrow morning LOL and it deals with standing and lack of assignment. so i will have oral argument on proof of assignment and standing.

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